A question for all the "2012" non-believers

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

My theory? It's because after Y2K failed to destroy the world, all the chicken littles that need there to be a doomsday crisis over the horizon latched onto this 2012 business. And when 2013 rolls around, I'm sure they're going to find another near-future date for the "big one," and will panic accordingly

Y2K was a current human made scare that was only brought about because computer programmers were too lazy to write dates in 4 numeric values, and only wrote them in 2. Many people did not think the world was going to end, just that our economic and banking system would fall. Y2K hardly parallels 2012 prophecy.

And, before you completely disregard teachings of Sumer, remember these writings encompass many stories that fill out our Chrisitan Bible.

And this is supposed to lend credibility?

I would think a religious text that a majority of the world believes strongly in its authenticity would have some sort of credibility, yes...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, Hopi Indian prophecy points to 2012. Even though they do not believe the world will end, they say that people who are unable to adapt to change will be doomed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prolifent? What's that mean? Are you combining "prolific" with "proficient"? And, well, not to dis the Hopi, but I'd hardly put them on the same scale as the Sumerians or Maya.

You caught me. I did mean Prolific, one grammar mistake in all of my writings, whereas I'm not going to even point out the gross errors in the next sentence you wrote.

pro·lif·ic   /prəˈlɪfɪk/ Show Spelled
[pruh-lif-ik] Show IPA

–adjective
1. producing offspring, young, fruit, etc., abundantly; highly fruitful: a prolific pear tree.
2. producing in large quantities or with great frequency; highly productive: a prolific writer.
3. profusely productive or fruitful (often fol. by in or of ): a bequest prolific of litigations.
4. characterized by abundant production: a prolific year for tomatoes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION: So, why do you blatantly disregard the only major date that all three of these ancient and wise civilizations warn us about?

Because so far only the Maya mention that date (Sitchen does not count as Sumerian research, and I just explained hte Hiopi thing) and they don't give any "warnings." Unless it's like the calendar you can buy at the store that tells you "End of the year, buy a new calendar"

If you not thinking the Hopi civilization was important enough to give credence to their prophecies, maybe you should think of what future civilizations will think of us, or just go back and read my "small-minded" comment again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, you want to discredit all of 2012 theory because of your own personal theory that the end of their calendar means NOTHING...........

It means it's time to get a new calendar. Doesn't sound that dramatic, but have you seen these things? They're big handcarved rocks. And the math involved! Getting a new Mayan calendar will be a lot of work!

Doesn't sound all that dramatic? According to the Maya, the last world was Destroyed at the end of the last Long Count. Nope, total destruction isn't dramatic at all.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I won't even point out how small minded of an idea this is. But, to refute this logic, lets look at the rest of the Calendar.

Not believing in something that has no evidence isn't small-minded. It's "intelligence."

The idea that a civilization as astrologically advanced as the Mayans would devote so much effort and knowledge into developing a calendar, and then you regard it as "inconsequental", and having no meaning is indeed "small-minded" and unintelligent in my book. Do they Mayans seem like a people who would waste all of their time on something frivilous?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second is the Haab, which is 365 days. We all can see this means something.
The Haab tracks a full solar year, which is a full cycle of Solar Birth.

This means the Haab is what Mayan civilization depended on to determine when to plant, when to harvest, and many many other aspects of their life. They lived by the Haab.
So, both the first and second calendars are important and life saving........

Well, the sun doesn't go out at the end of the Haab, does it?

The Sun is almost reborn, as the precession of the season begins again. You have to understand that to ancient people, braving through the winter and seeing the coming of the spring was very akin to rebirth..
--------------------------------------------------------------

Why would they have a third calendar that counted nothing?

Why do we have a month that only has 28 (sometimes 29) days? Leap years must be a period of significant importance, right? Nah. It's just because of how the math works out.

Do not forget that every calendar is Astrological, and not purely mathematical. So, it is not merely math or numbers, but is how we progress over time and through the solar system.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, if it's NOT true, then I can either spend the remaining two years worrying about something that won't happen and feel really dumb when 2013 comes around. or I can spend the remaining to years just doing what I would have done anyway.

It's kind of Pascal's Wager in reverse. it's more of a benefit to not bother, since if it's true, I lose nothing by not bothering, and if it's false, i lose by bothering. See?

So, since you believe that theres nothing personally that you could do to affect anything in the world, it is probably better that you believe in nothing, and sit on your butt and do nothing.... gotta love that logic.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Thinker1
well if one of the things means how long it is for birth. and the days of the year, why dosent the last one mean something in relation to those. our calender ends why not think that their calender ends at something as well. how did people portray it as being the end of the world

Exactly, so if the 1st is birth of a Human, and the 2nd is birth of a Year, then is the 3rd birth of something else?

Perhaps birth of a species, or birth of a solar system, or birth of a new world.
I'm not saying that I have the answers, I just think its crazy to say that this calendar means nothing.

None of the 2012 conspiracies are backed up by facts, so who cares?? It's like reading fiction...

I believe that something will happen in 2012 simply because so many people believe that it will. Self-fulfilling prophesy is one of the most common of tendencies in this world.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


according to this MILLIONS of mayans died of lack of water and food.

are they really that clever to predict the end of the world when they let millions die?
or atleast this is what scientific studies show of 1 possibilty why millions died.
mayanarchaeology.tripod.com...

heres my point

Whatever virtues the Classic Maya culture might have had, predicting the future seems an unlikely one. This fact has not stopped some very bizarre speculation about Maya astronomy. The speculators should ask themselves: what is the likelihood that a civilization that couldn't use its vast knowledge to save itself from self-destruction was concerned with predicting what would happen in a future millennium? The Maya leaders couldn't see far enough into the future to plan for and solve the human problems they faced: too many people on too little land, destruction of their own environment, farming techniques and deforestation that depleted soil nutrients, droughts (partly brought on by their deforestation programs), and so on. Why should we think the Maya prophets would be any better at seeing the distant future than the Hebrew prophets or Nostradamus?

link for above

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


Hey!
Yes got to agree with you there. He seemed to know what he was talking about. However, didn't he mention in the video you speak of something about the date 28/10/11? If I remember correctly it was something like that on this date all past, present and future will be available. Whatever that means?

I've always felt a little suspicious of the 2012 date and tend to think that it has been hyped up somewhat with a little added disinformation for dramatic purposes. I feel much more drawn to the 2011 date and indeed, I'm looking forward more to that than 2012. And to those who disagree with what the Mayans had to say, what proof have you with which to refute their claims and/or predictions? Like I said to D. Aaronovich, "where is your proof that there are no conspiracies?"

Peace Brother.

TextAnd to those who disagree with what the Mayans had to say, what proof have you with which to refute their claims and/or predictions?

reply to post by 1mabeliever


And what did the mayans have to say? Erm nothing
What claims or predictions? That will be none then yea

Proof to refute there claims! Can you show proof of what claims they made please oh yes that's right they didn't make any claims so what proof do we need to refute the none existent claims? Again thar answer your looking for is none!

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

according to this MILLIONS of mayans died of lack of water and food.

are they really that clever to predict the end of the world when they let millions die?
or atleast this is what scientific studies show of 1 possibilty why millions died.
mayanarchaeology.tripod.com...

If I remember correctly, the Mayans predicted the fall of their civilization.
I can't remember exactitudes.

Originally posted by simples
How many times can the world supposedly end?

Oh no just realised my calendar end on the 31st of December 2011 s&!@ I think we are all going to die on that date ! I best go start a new thread quickly before anybody else realises this

Actually your calendar does not end on that date. It's an ever lasting calendar, because not all years have the same number of years, the full moon does not happen on the same days every year, and etc. More than that, our calendar measures the time it takes for our planet to complete a solar year, the long count calendar has nothibg to do with this...so your claim is meaningless.

As for those who think they ran out of space...how those that even make sense? You don't end a calendar at a random date like that, you end it when you are recquired to do so, and they believed 2012 was the date...

The mayan long count calendar supposedly measures the evolution of man's consciousness, it doesn't mean "nothing".

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

according to this MILLIONS of mayans died of lack of water and food.

are they really that clever to predict the end of the world when they let millions die?
or atleast this is what scientific studies show of 1 possibilty why millions died.
mayanarchaeology.tripod.com...

Would you consider our current civilization clever? Because as we speak, I'm sure there are million more people dieing of hunger and thirst here on Earth...I don't see your point here. As someone mentionned, they did succesfully predict there own fall.

Oh and OP! You've got me interested! Can you provide us with a link of the astral projectionists unable to see past 2012? I'm not sure it's the same thing, but I've been reading stuff about the military Montauk project, an alternative military experiment involving mind control, time travel, dimensional travel... I remember reading that all time projectionists couldn't see past 2011-2012...All of this happened before the 2012 hype so that's why your claim got me really interested!

here is the thing.. if something is going to happen in 2012 there is nothing we can do to avoid it and so there is no point crying about it.

on the other hand wasting the time we have on this planet worrying about something that may or may not happen to me is worse than the world ending in 2012 or whatever you believe is going to happen.


the way i see it if 2012 is good then its good and im not complaining if its bad then its bad and i cant change the future so why worry about it anyway.

"The Mayan Calendar is comprised of Three Distinct parts.

1. Tzolkin
2. Haab
3. Long Count

It is the ending of the long count in which people discredit all of 2012 theory."

nothing happens at the end of the Tzolkin. Or the haab. So why at the end of the long count does something happen? Could it just be that the long count charts another cycle not having to do with the "end of the world as we know it"? You know, kind of like the tzolkin and the haab?

The mayans couldn't even see the end of their own civilization, what makes you think they could see the end of ours?

reply to post by MrXYZ


OMG, someone with common sense!
there are way too many very real situations that need our time and attention in life. i've been around too long and been through way too many "the skies are falling" clucks from silly Chicken Little types to pay attention any more.
there is no need to go through life worrying about things that never happen, that's a waste of time, energy & resources. common sense and good judgement are skills worth practicing.

reply to post by ThreeDeuce

So given that you're sure TSHTF in 2012...can I have your car?

this is just my opinon, but i believe that the world will end in 2012, i think it will happen through the apocalypse (dont think i spelled it right). i think anyone who says it wont are either people who dont want to believe it because they think it wont happen if they believe it wont or people who just want everyone to blndly die, becuase i believe those who die blindly will become nothing while those who are concious and aware will go to heaven and those who are evil (by that i mean evil hearted and live life just to screw it up) will go to hell or fall with the devil himself. im actually hoping to take place within this religious war because ive developed a new fighting style that i believe will be able to take down Satan, but if not then theres always the angel that was created by god whos job it was to seal him back down into hell again.

Originally posted by SooperFadeaway
The Mayan Calender actually ended in 2009, people just "revised it" to end in 2012. But good luck finding an original translation of the Mayan Calender.

Check the Vatican Library after they've finished moving to higher ground.

On one side of the 2012 argument are the one-dimensional amoeba people that think reality is everything they can visually see & nothing else. They do not believe in the possibility that time is relative or that particle information travels infinitely faster than the speed of light (both of these are proven to be true) or that there could have been ET intervention etc. (things which explain the Long Count Calendar's purpose). I hate to say it, but people who 'doubt' anything will occur next year simply have such thoughts from not researching enough (will explain below).

On the other side are religious fanatics trying to make 2012 fit their religious paradigm (like a few in this thread, no offense) that don't actually do much research. They just blab crazy nonsense w/o backing it up.

On the outside are researchers. People that look at it objectively. People like myself & I have to say, there exists evidence 'something' is very likely is going to happen next year.

The Hopi predicted a "Blue Star Kachina" will rise in the horizon, signifying the end of an age of mankind (& their previous 8/9 signs have already passed). How coincidental is it for a comet (comet Elenin) to come from nowhere and be headed right for Earth? It keeps getting closer & will definitely be very noticeable and very blue by end of this year. files.abovetopsecret.com...

The Sumerian, as someone mentioned earlier, have an end of mankind theme too (no year in specific however). Now here's something fishy to think about...both the Sumerian & the Hopi, in their past, were in contact with a white "star brother" named "Pahana". Both had the exact same name for him & description & in both cases, Pahana promised to return. This is statistically near impossible to be a coincidence.

The Long Count Calander predates the Mayan people by 1,000 years & they never claimed they built it (archaeologists, being the simpletons they are, pinned it on them so nobody would ask questions). Who do the Maya say built it? They say "the men of wisdom". If you have every studied this Long Count, you'd tell it does not jive with what a man, 5,000 years ago, could have constructed. This thing is a programmed astronomical MACHINE. www.latinamericanstudies.org...

1.bp.blogspot.com...
With astronomical fundamentals not learned until 4,000 years later by Kepler....In 3,000 BC men were still using clubs to battle & just being introduced to a new complex tool called a "sword"! No man could have created this at that time. All the world's best modern astronomers together would not be able to create the calendar w/o use from computers or extremely advanced software.

Given all the recent government disclosure going on (Ecuador, Brazil, Vatican, Mexico, England, etc.) of ETs & UFOs (& the recent meeting in Saudi Arabia of world business leaders to discuss them), I would not think it's impossible that there was interaction in our ancient past. As the OP said, the calendar serves functions of evolution or advancement (gestation, etc.) & the end of the calendar does too.

What else, astronomically, is on the agenda for 2012? You're looking at a 'super solar storm' with capability of sending us back to the stone age (NASA has recently pushed the date to 2013, as many scientists predicted, to stave off fear) & in 2012 we complete a 26,000 year cycle as the OP stated.

Here's a Mayan Elder's words for 2012. The machine's end represents "the return of the men of wisdom."

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


Sorry, but...you've already acknowledged about the Julian and Gregorian calendars....did you remember when one (forget at the moment) had to be altered substantially...."missing" abunch of years, because it had gotten so out of whack?? (Is why we have "Leap Years" now....the Earth's orbit around the Sun, and our planet's rotation cycles, just aren't a "perfect" match. Damned inconsiderate of the Earth, isn't it???).

So, you understand that the year "2011" or "2012" are completely arbitrary, correct?? A "modern" invention...."modern" in just the last ~two thousand years, or so.....

But, you wrote this:

Sumerian Texts also talk about about 2012 as "Changing of the World, as we know it".

Is nonsense.....they did not have any way of knowing, in their time, our current method of keeping track of the years!! This is a false analogy, and fallacious reasoning. Borne of wishful thinking, I'd imagine.


Oh, speaking of "wishful thinking":

And, before you completely disregard teachings of Sumer, remember these writings encompass many stories that fill out our Chrisitan Bible.

That old chestnut?? Humans began to tell each other tales and make up fables around their campfires as soon as they discovered fire. (Or before). Lore, oral tradition, handed down generation to generation and embellished (exaggerated) along the way....THAT is the basis for the "buybull", as well as many other 'sacred' texts in history. Many, many similarities, with minor regional and cultural differences. People, as soon as they started to become self-aware, naturally wondered.....and HAD to make somehting up, right out of their fertile little imaginations....to make themselves think they "understood", and to satisfy their need for "order". Look at all the suffering, since...all that irrationality.

Those same legends and yarns?? Some, naturally, made it into that "buybull"....depends on who was doing the writing down, and the so-called "teachings"......