Conspiracy of the Century...Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same!

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posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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This has to be the mother of all conspiracies. Most Christians claim that Jesus is their God, that he dies and rose up from the grave and became God in the flesh. I personally have never believed this, and when someone says it to me, I ask, "Oh, then Jesus is a Demigod then?" I usually hear "Blasphemer!" yelled really loud at me. Came across this researching for a post. Enjoy! (I know Christians won't!)
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Origins of the word Lucifer

Before we begin let us figure out Lucifer means. In Latin Lucifer means “Light Bringer” and is the name of the Morning Star. The word Lucifer appears only once in the Bible and only in the KJV. Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” But did the word Lucifer always exist? NO! In the Hebrew language, the word Lucifer is derived from the Hebrew word הילל (Hêlēl). In fact, the term Lucifer didn’t even exist in the Biblical ages! Put thought to it; Lucifer is a Latin word. (Lux = light/fire Ferre = to bear/to bring). The Old Testament was written primarily in Hebrew, so the word Lucifer could not have been in their language. So, then if the word were not amongst them at that time, then who gave us that word? In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century it was considered the versio vulgate – the common translation. It was St. Jerome who placed the word Lucifer into the Bible, and not just once, but three times! Isaiah 14:12, Job 11:17, and 2 Peter 1:19.


*snip*


Here are these same verses in the KJV.
Isaiah 14:12 - 12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Job 11:17 - 17: And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday: thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning.

2 Peter 1:19- -19: We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: And the same verses in the NIV

Isaiah 14:12 – 12: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Job 11:17 – 17: Life will be brighter than noonday, and darkness will become like morning.

2 Peter 1:19 - 19: And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Revelation 22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Note that the term ‘morning star’ is used throughout the New Testament and is in reference to Jesus the Christ. Keep this in mind. The Hebrew translation had the word helel in the place of Lucifer, or rather St. Jerome replaced the word helel with Lucifer. What does helel mean? It means ‘shining one’. ‘How art fallen from Heaven, O Shining One son of the dawn.’ ‘…until the day dawns and the Shining One rises in your hearts.’ And what then of the Greek translation? Helel in Greek translates into Eosphorus/Phosphorus. And in this translation the word means ‘light bearer’


*snip*


Final note: Even in numerology and Gematria the value of the names Lucifer and Jesus are the exact same.

74 and 74 (1)
222 and 222 (3)
444 and 444 (6)

And the value of Morning Star is the value of Lucifer and Jesus combined.

148
444
888

Jesus Christ IS the TRUE lucifer (morning star, light bringer)

After reading thought this article, I am thinking....wonder if I can find anything related? Well, type "Jesus is Lucifer" into Bing and you get 4,780,000 results. Here are a few related articles for your consideration:

The Morning Star: Jesus or "Lucifer"?

Is Jesus Lucifer and the Devil?

Lucifer, Jesus and the Magdalene

Is Jesus Lucifer?

I know this is shocking to some, but I never doubted it. My own mother always demonized me because I saw dead people, she often called me "Antichrist" and other names. In the town where I live, the Christians act like one would expect a demon to look like, and they all say, "If you give your heart and soul to Jesus, you will go to Heaven, otherwise you are destined for Hellfire Everlasting. Even in this forum Christians believe in nothing but their Bible, so here it is, Good Christian Brethren, Your God certainly seems to be the one you always warn the rest of us against.




posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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neither one is real in terms of substance, mass, atoms.
they are very real in personifying the power that exists in our soul

they are very real if one "prays" to them because it gives the (relatively unknown) human mind a way to direct certain energies to manifest what you are "asking" god for.

go do the same thing sometime without praying to "god" to do it. realize that all energy can be directed by your mind aware or not, and that if you have enough thought energy into something, it will manifest.

some use lucifer "the light bearer" to advance their understanding, or skills in some way, and is easier than manifesting it themselves

when u believe without a doubt that if u pray to god, he will grant your prayers, it will happen
when u believe that you can answer your own prayers, you will.

to each his own, but someday i hope people realize that they havve been giving up their power for centuries by believing they arent the driving force in their own existence. when we believe that, there will be no lucifer, there will be human decision



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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Lucifer is something the weirdo freemasons worship at Bohemian Grove and sicko lodges all over the world. Definately not the same as Jesus. Lucifer was almost as high as God. God's right hand man. But when pride got in the way, and Lucifer wanted to be like the most high God cut lucifer down. Lucifer and Jesus are 2 totally separate things.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Actually the original association of the word "Lucifer" with Satan was a completely wrong assumption that only happened in rather modern times. The word simply means "Morning Star" and there is no verse in the Bible that associates Satan and Lucifer as being the same. The main one people think of is simply a poetic image of the morning star being out shined by the Sun as it comes up. Lucifer, never has been, the name of any individual. On a side note that is unrelated but also interesting the word Antichrist never appears in Revelation. It only appears in first and second John, yet in those verses it only talks about 'The Spirit of Antichrist' and it says there are many "antichrists" NEVER an individual who IS, or WILL BE the "Antichrist". the whole Idea of a single person called "Antichrist" is completely false. It is only a phrase which means "against Christ".....not a person. Look it up.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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I wouldn't call myself a strong believer by any means and I'm no Bible thumper, but you opened this up...so to speak.



Matthew 12:22-27 (New American Standard Bible) The Pharisees Rebuked
22(A)Then a (B)demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw.
23All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, "This man cannot be the (C)Son of David, can he?"
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man (D)casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."
25(E)And (F)knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26"If (G)Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
27"If I (H)by Beelzebul cast out demons, (I)by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.

www.biblegateway.com...:22-27&version=NASB

What advantage would Jesus have spreading the Gospel of love and tolerance if he was actually Satan?

And what about when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert and overcame his temptations? Internal struggle?

But to restate...why would he?



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."--2 Timothy 2:15

Ahh, the Great Deception. My studies have led me to the same type of conclusions. Something definitely went amiss with Christianity.It makes perfect sense, theologically. The Darker half of the universe would definitely co-opt the good side to create unwitting converts.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 

This is awesome. I wrongly assume the OP was saying Jesus was Satan. It wasn't. It was simply reaffirming your post that it's a flaw in language.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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you are certainly entitled to your opinions. and the fact that you did abit of research is nice as well. to argue a point in which biblical scholars have argued since after the historical jesus died, its a daunting task. most scholars would agree that the old testament was written in hebrew, without vowel pointings, the good current edition to use would be the sexta. of course, the actual number of books is argued, the general consensus excluding the apocryphal and the non canonical writings, would be 39 books. The 27 in the new testament can be subscribed to translations from koine greek. the issue with your reference to lucifer is a few: lucifer can be reconciled with other parts of the bible referring to the evil one, devil, satan... the kjv is not the exclusive edition. in fact, many scholars believe that the kjv is not the best translation since it was based upon the best linguists of that era- king james and his court. some believe that the vulgate and the septuigent were the models based upon kjv scholars. all in all, your issues with lucifer are noted. but if you are contesting jesus and satan are the same, there's a lengthy history of scholars who have written tomes who may differ with you. your discussion as all critical deconstructional thinking deserves space here. i look forward to more of your discourse.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Propaganda anyone?

What better way to discredit a coming God, whether Jesus or anyone else, than to discredit him before he gets here?

The Vatican is one of, if not the most, powerful organization in the world, and it's been that way for quite some time. They would do anything to preserve that power. The only thing/person that could remove that power would be God, or a human equivalent. It makes sense that if anyone other than Jesus himself came up and said they were God, the first people who would NOT follow him would be the Catholics and Christians. It would immediately set up the scenario in the Revelations, which was added after the fact and was not originally in the Old Testament.

If I were the Vatican, and I knew Jesus was not going to return... I would certainly say that he would return and then try to make people believe that anyone else who was NOT Jesus as depicted in the Bible would most certainly be the anti-christ. So, if we do get some benevolent, loving being that tries to tell us that the Church is wrong and has lied to us, most people will automatically associate that individual as the anti-christ and the war of the Apocalypse becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

They want us to believe that whoever appears to be "bringing the light" to the people is labeled the anti-christ, which is most likely not going to be true.

My question is - How will we know the difference when that day comes?

~Namaste
edit on 25-1-2011 by SonOfTheLawOfOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by DanUKphd
 


I disagree with you, and agree with the op. Jesus called himself the morning star, and the latin name for morning star is Lucifer, in greek I believe it was phosphoros. If you know the bible, you will know that Adversary is used often but never Lucifer when reffering to Satan, satan if I am correct means adversary. So yes, jesus is Lucifer, the light bearer or light bringer. He said so himself, atleast according to the Bible.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


also .. no bible thumper here..

but in a word..

deception.

what better way to spread a earthly kingdom other than posing as an advocate of peace..

seems to be working though right?

the Pope has all manner of influence upon the governments of the world.. and lives within his own city/state...

how many wars have been fought in the name of Jesus?

how many have died in the name of Jesus? millions.. untold millions...

can you say that the modern christian faith has anything to do with the teachings of Jesus? nope.

but we could say that a little bit of truth has been told along with a whole lot of lies..

they have covered all the bases be it for peace..

and of course war .. in the name of peace.. or control..

we are lucky to even be able to read the bible in our language if it we not for brave men standing up to the church..

little did they know it would expose the church for what it is..

greed corruption perversion



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Lucifer is a mistranslation in the Bible. What better source than an old ATS thread. Lucifer and Satan are thought of by modern people as both being the devil. The devil is thought of from everything as just an idea of evil, to a guy with a red suit and a pitchfork, thanks to artist renditions over the years.

Jesus Christ being refereed to as the morning star as well as Lucifer being refereed to as the morning star should be a tiny clue to all that perhaps when man gets involved in playing the telephone game over centuries, he will almost always get it wrong given enough tries.

(and for the record, Freemasons don't worship Lucifer. We worship the God of our respective religion)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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If so and this is of the Brightest then verify how Satan the darkest of angels fits in? Or does some consider Satan and Lu ci fa same and if so now how does this add to Lu ci being Christ and not a worker of Christ. Again where did Satan come from... GUESS HE JUST DOESNT EXIST AGAIN



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


The reason Satan would want to "be Jesus" would be to entrap the many who believe. Do you think Satan could "grab" more souls if he was considered the opposition or the solution? I'm sure there are 10 times the amount of christians than there are satanists.

It would mean that Jesus would be the false prophet spoken of in the bible. Claing to being everyone the "message of god".

It would be a mighty DEVILISH trick, and if I was Satan that's what I would do. It would also explain why so many Christians are perceived to be "backwards".


That's assuming any of this "Christian" stuff is real...



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by reeferman
 


Yeah. I could see that coming. It's all valid points.

But...I'm going to go with the track of Lucifer not referring to Satan. Mistranslation. Good enough.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by GeechQuestInfo
 


Ok. But the "believers" you're referencing did not believe in anything like Jesus before he came around, so I don't understand what you're saying.

There was no reference for Jesus until he came on. It's hard for me to explain, but it's like saying "mofoun" is really "evil mofoun". It makes no sense because the first reference to "mofoun" you'd heard was the question itself.

Ok. I'll end this with the Bible again, since we are rehashing this most basic of Biblical arguments.



A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Beware of the (A)false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (B)ravenous wolves.
16"You will (C)know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So (D)every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"(E)Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them (F)by their fruits.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by DanUKphd
Lucifer is something the weirdo freemasons worship at Bohemian Grove and sicko lodges all over the world. Definately not the same as Jesus. Lucifer was almost as high as God. God's right hand man. But when pride got in the way, and Lucifer wanted to be like the most high God cut lucifer down. Lucifer and Jesus are 2 totally separate things.


Well said!

This is not God's world but one of darkness. Jesus was sent to remind us of this. The impact that Jesus had was so tremendous that the evil PTB corrupted his teachings as they could not simply 'cover-up' such a thing.

To be ignorant of the corruption in organised religion is a grave mistake, yet to ignore religion and 'Jesus' completely, is just as bad.

The evil mind that is responsible for this virtual reality wants you worship it as a 'God' and not as the despicable being it is, so either way, to worship a corrupted image of 'God' , or to deny the existence in evil, is the same thing.

Those whose ego denounces any merit in religion or the actual meaning of 'Jesus', are just as ignorant as those who are brainwashed by corrupted religious teachings.

The truth is out there and the truth is always positive.


Peace



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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You certainly seem to have a distaste for Christians...especially for the fundementalist sort. It strikes me that your argument to make Christ as Lucifer goes well beyond the academic and scriptural, and crosses almost to contempt.

Although at times there seems to be similarities between the two in reference or terms, let me assure you that Jesus is not Lucifer..ie Satan. The arguments you make are similar to those that Lucifer or Satan or the AntiChrist will make to confirm that he is the messiah to the world at the endtimes.

These argumenst are a twisting or distortion of scripture...scriptures half told and taken out of context... for that is what Lucifer/Satan/Antichrist wants anyway...to be Jesus. That is the truer meaning of "antichrist"...instead of Christ or false Christ.

Lucifer/Satan was an archangel that covered the mercy seat of God. He grew enviuos and jealous of Christ..the Son of God...for he felt that he was more beautiful and deserving of the role that jesus was to play. By his personality and beauty, he seduced and persuaded 1/3 of the angels to fall away or rebel against God.

Such referneces can be found in Genesis, Isaiah, Revelation... actually, it would take a far more indepth study and more time than I am willing to give here. Suffice to say, if you are serious about such pursuits, there are adequate texts and study guides to educate you and others.

Simply, the biggest way to differentiate between Jesus and Lucifer/Satan is what Jesus termed...the fruits. What fruit does the tree bear. A good tree does not bring forth bad fruit...likewise, a bad tree does not bring forth good fruits.

Jesus taught love, mercy, generosity, sacrifice, forgiveness, honesty, non judgement of others, peace.

Lucifer/Satan by his very actions teaches contempt, hurt, selfishness, lies, suffering, hatred, theivery, adultery, murder.

Lucifer/Satan was an angel of light at one time and still is radiant... there in lies the reference...as all angels are described as radiant and brilliant. It strikes me that your arguments for Lucifer=Jesus are based on manmade distortions and lingual semantics or play of words.

I'm sorry that the contact you have had with socalled christians has tainted your understanding of the faith and left a bad taste in your mouth. Maybe in the future, you could aquaint yourself with Christians that aren't so full of themselves....

Even Jesus said that not everyone that calls on my name and performs acts in my name will enter into heaven.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 

The Morning Star is Jesus.

Revelation 22:16 (King James Version)

16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Son of the Morning (or Dawn) is Satan.
They are not the same person.
A lot of confusion seems to stem from the newer written translation of the bible like the NIV.
Here is the same verse from different versions of the bible.

Isaiah 14:12-15 (King James Version)

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Here Lucifer (Satan) is referred to as the son of morning.

Isaiah 14:12-15 (New International Version, ©2010)

12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

In this translation Lucifer is referred to as both the son of morning and morning star.
You can decide on your own which translation is correct.
KJV has been used for over 1500 years.
These other version are very new.
I personally use the Young's Literal Translation where nothing is changed, not even the verb tense.
Even if it doesn't make sense, they leave it.
Confusion about who Jesus is is -NOT- from God.

edit on 25-1-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 


I beg to differ. I looked them up in my 1861 King James. Here is the Latin verses for you.

In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century it was considered the versio vulgate – the common translation.

It was St. Jerome who placed the word Lucifer into the Bible, and not just once, but three times! Isaiah 14:12, Job 11:17, and 2 Peter 1:19.

Isaiah 14:12 according to the Vulgate translation - Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries

Job 11:17 - Et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam; et cum te consumptum putaveris, orieris ut lucifer.

2 Peter 1:19 - Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et (lucifer) oriatur in cordibus vestries

hubpages.com...

From my Bible:
Isaiah 14:12 - 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Job 11:17 - 17And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday: thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning.

2 Peter 1:19 - 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:



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