Putin: retribution 'inevitable' for airport bomb

Looks like Grozny is going to get another hit. Unfortunately this cycle seems to be on a five year cycle and doesn't seem like it is going to end there. Chechens strike Russia, Russia Strikes Chechnya and vice versa. What a mess, I feel for all the victims in this and hope that one day it can be resolved.

Russia launched a military intervention in a region (which was part of Russia historically) that was taken over by Radical Islamist warlords.

That's not true. Chechnya was only historically a region of Russia if you start history precisley at a date that suits your argument. If you have an argument why not start it without exageration and subjective misinformation. Did the people of the North Caucaus ever consider themselfs to be part of Russia, ever? It's equivelant to the English government laying claim to Scotland!

Chechnya was not historically part of Russia.. Furthermore, and this is a part you conveniently ommit; Chechnya was not rife with Islamic warloads, the Chechens actually embraced Islam to ensure support from the Ottoman empire. And the reason for doing so was to protect their sovereignty and territory from an encroaching Russia. Who had been slowly moving up on them since the 15th century. They were driven to Islam, you could aruge. Traditionally whats described as the Chechens, they were largely a pagan people.

Keeping on that point, many Chechens still refused to embrace Islam and stuck with their pagan beliefs. You're familiar with Unshurma trying to radicalise the majority of Pagan Chechens, I'm guessing? If they were all Muslims and fanatical Islamic warlords he wouldn't have tried and failed to bring Shia law to the region, with the Chechens largely rejecting the notion.

Before the Russians went into Chechnya in 1994, the Islamist warlords began to cleanse their de-facto republic of all non-Chechens. Tens of thousands of Russians were murdered, and even more were driven from their homes forever. The radical militants also began to raid neighboring parts of Russia.

Debatable. But you're ignoring some history here. Millions of Chechens were moved East to Khazakstan, as its now known, during WWII. MILLIONS.

What started the First Chechen War, and pretty much all conflict prior, was Russian opression and refusal to accept Chechnya as a legitimate nation. The reason for this is simple, Russia wanted to and still wants to maintain it's control on Middle East oil.

During the wars Russia did not target civilians deliberately. The militants often used them as human shields. On several occasions Russia allowed civilians to evacuate from Grozny before the bombing began. Please learn more about the conflict if you are going to start to come up with justifications for actions like this terrorist attack.

How do you accidently kill 100,000 innocent civilians, and only 5,000 guerillas? Is your army populated with imbeciles? Just admit it; Chechens hate Russians, Russians hate Chechens. Soldiers and Guerillas on respective sides are happy to slay the other, civilians or otherwise. That's the reality of the situation, isn't it.

What did you want them to do? Russia sees to its internal affairs as it sees fit. Chechnya was never recognized by anyone as an independent nation - it is part of Russia's jurisdiction, and Russia has the right to combat criminal elements there.

But they're not internal affairs. Russia has no right to combat anything in a land it has no claim to. What next, you're going to recapture all the ex-Soviet states? Human rights and the will of a people are more important than any Imperialist governments regional and economic dominance.

You probably don't even consider Chechens to be Russian yourself! Yet you're argueing Russia should control the land non Russians are on.

No large nation is a humanitarian. Politics come first. US or anyone else is a humanitarian only when it serves their political needs.

What relevence are American atrocities? Does pointing out the other mans crime justify your own?

No they have not. Dudayev was the only one of the truly secular separatist leaders. However after 1994 he was no longer in actual control of the conflict, and remained largely a symbolic figurehead. The whole separatist movement was hijacked by the Islamists almost from the start. Basayev, Khattab, Barayev, Yandarbiev, and to some extent Maskhadov - were all Islamists and fanatics. The secular factions of the militants were very quickly overwhelmed, and mattered little for the remainder of the conflict.

Yes they have. And no, Aslan Maskhadov was not an Islamist, he was a secularist nationalist.

The first Chechen War was absolutely nationalist. You're wrong(and probably know you are) to suggest otherwise. In recent years the balance has been swaying. Mainly because of external Islamic fascists coming in from Saudi Arabia and the Middle East region. Not to mention financial support from Islamic militants across the border. Putin himself blamed external Muslim fascists, Al Qaeda in particular, did he not?

But to confuse the legitimate aims and demands of ethnic Chechens and nationalists, with that of Islamic extremists exploiting the conflict, it's deceitful.

The reason why the conflict took a religious turn so quick - is because the leadership saw it as the easiest opportunity to spread conflict outside of Chechnya - which would make their job in Chechnya easier. It is true that religion was mainly a tool - the true separatist leadership was after the money and the loot associated with war. But that is how they managed to recruit countless brainwashed idiots.

The true seperatist leadership were after independence. Nothing more. If you'd gave it them this thread wouldn't exist, conflict would be practically a non issue. But unfortunately the greed of Russias elite is more important.

There was no democracy or any remote trace of it. There was never a referendum for independence. The Chechens simple forced Russians and all non-Chechens to move out, or killed them in early 90's.

I think we're way apart here. I'm not talking about the 90s. I'm talking about hundreds of years ago. This issue is 500 years old. It didn't start in the 90s.

Thousands of Russians who lived in Chechnya were killed even before the war started, and tens of thousands were forced to flee and leave their belongings to Chechens.

Again, you're picking up a little while longer than when this issue started.

I've been there around that time, and I know what Dudayev and his thugs were doing and what their intentions were. Dudayev was also never elected by anyone - he was invited to rule by the local counsil of separatists, and then he killed and chased away most of the said council to make his job easier.

Dudayev, his thugs and you, were not there in the 1400's. Which brings us full circular to my original point. Russia destroyed Chechnya and drove the people to extremism. You're confusing cause and effect.

It was a lawless criminal state from the very beginning to the end. It was not self-sustainable, and attacked and raided neighboring Russian regions.

The Chechens, Avars, Ingushes, Circassians, Zygians etc all lived in relative harmony. And yes, it was perfectly self-sustainable. And no, they didn't attack and raid neighbouring Russian regions.

What pillar of Democracy are you talking about? You accuse people of not knowing about the war in Chechenya, yet you yourself are utterly clueless beyond a select picking of items that suit your agenda.

It's pitiful that I must educate you on, supposedly, your own nations history.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts are facts. The Russian empire brutalised an otherwise peaceful region, and radicalised the natives via constant inhumane attack. And it'll continue, until the land is returned to the Chechens. Unfortunately, Russia will hold out and inevitebly you'll all get your wish, it will become a discredited Holy War. Just as is happening with Israel and Palestine. Both incredibly sad demonstrations of imperialist criminals ruining the world.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Thanks for this response! Man I'm so tired of the lying about what is really going on in Russia, and what has gone on in the past.

The most interesting thing to me at this point is what will happen now. America and the UN have been big on pushing against a Russian incursion into the Chechnya Republic for a long time. I will find it interesting to see how they plan to keep the Russians' out this time. I mean if it was them that actually perpetrated this attack then it will be no different then when the US told the UN to kiss off and went after Afghanistan and Iraq. Then again America is not beyond double standards and I am sure they will still have something to say about it.

Originally posted by Phantom28804
The most interesting thing to me at this point is what will happen now. America and the UN have been big on pushing against a Russian incursion into the Chechnya Republic for a long time. I will find it interesting to see how they plan to keep the Russians' out this time. I mean if it was them that actually perpetrated this attack then it will be no different then when the US told the UN to kiss off and went after Afghanistan and Iraq. Then again America is not beyond double standards and I am sure they will still have something to say about it.

I don't think anyone will say a word about Russia's retaliation, unless it reaches genocidal proportions, I also do not envision Russia asking for permission to attack them. My best guess it there will be (if there aren't already) boots lined up at the border awaiting Putin's, I mean Medvedev's order.

Here's an interesting article I saw earlier, perhaps some will enjoy. rt.com...

reply to post by ADVISOR


Calling the Russians soviets really downgrades your credibility, which is bizzare since you are a moderator. I'd expect better than such ignorance. If you're making a point, I don't see it. Russia is not communist at all, if anything they are a bit on the fascist side. With our police state growing every day, I don't see how Russia is the fearsome Evil empire or whatever it is you believe (certainly not clear by any means).

Reagan's PR staff would be proud.

Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

"i know putin knows who did this, be careful of those red tie wearers in the shadows"

Me thinks Putin knows EXACTLY who did it. Open warfare may come swiftly and suddenly.

FSB along with other foreign intelligence were well aware of the upcoming attack given that Russia is to host some serous international events. Since the green light has been given from the four corners of the world as to a Russian response and as i have posted in the past the first quarter of 2011 will see a major change with a shift in physical borders. The only difference now to 2010 is that an official buffer zone for Russia as and will be implemented without any intervention since the predefined response and level of response has , is and is underway as this is being typed.

Well well well.....it appears we were incorrect

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

MOSCOW: Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that those behind a deadly suicide attack on Moscow's busiest airport were unlikely to have come from Russia's southern republic of Chechnya. "This terrorist act, according to preliminary data, has no relation to the Chechen Republic," Putin told reporters. Putin, who launched a war against Chechen rebels in 1999, refused to clarify his comment, which is likely to prompt speculation that the attackers came from another republic in Russia's insurgency-plagued North Caucasus, such as Ingushetia or Dagestan.

So preliminary data says that the bombing had nothing to do with Chechnya. Alright so where does that leave us? Putin didn't say. I must admit that I am surprised, one that it wasn't Chechnya and two that Russia didn't pretend that it was.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

The Moscow Times claims an unidentified police officer is identifying a group by the name of Nogai Battalion. This group is based out of the Domodedovo area in the Northern Caucasus.

I haven't been able to find too much information on the group there is some available in this paper www.microconflict.eu....

Thanks for posting that. "Unlikely to have come..." Well glad we didn't rush to judgment!

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Who us? We never make assumptions and pass judgments on ats.

reply to post by searching4truth


I know we...um...speculate and theorize and store things in the back pockets of our minds for later...just in case! That's different!

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

1) Stop using all caps - it makes you look "simple"
2) You can't responsibly blame everything on Israel and the US without any proof!
3) Go read the T&C - You are in violation !

yea here we go...sorry didnt mean to shake the reality u feel comfortable in. excuse me.

this bomb, the bomb in egypt, and the bombs in turkey are all to recruit or curve nation states interests in the war on terror. its a blatant false flag that they know putin and mevdev will HAVE to respond. you know...the same way they recruited the U.S and the UK with the other false flag thingy.

to add there is TONS more evidence in comparison to say that this attack had foriegn interest than a suicide bomber...why would a muslim take his life to blow up a shop in a poxy airport in russia
then the news here are already listing russias options asking leading questions to the enivitable answer like they are doing now in egypt.

if your gonna pull up the T&CS, pull up your socks first
i am simple...simply marvelous

edit on 25-1-2011 by thePharaoh because: MY NUTZ ACHED

Just becasue you think that the airport is "poxy" does not mean it is or more importantly that the those wishing to blow it up think it is. They see it as a valid target for their campaign ie anything russian with people that can easily be hit. So a muslim terrorist will be looking for the following:

A. a target country that is oppressing "their muslim brothers" so that's russia and chechnya ticked.
B. Lost of people : airports, stations, city centres etc ticked
C. Easy target ie not Moscow airport !!!!....a "poxy" airport would be far easier.
D. Not needing to cross borders, so a russian muslim (there's lots of them) with a grievance.

See its easy to see why that airport in that country was targetted. No need for a conspiracy. Just the usual : narrow minded deluded people brainwashed by their religious leaders to break every known commandment (or equivelent) to achieve the aims of those leaders.

Things have been a little quiet on the terrorist bombs front recently, expect to see more bombs elsewhere in the world as those mad religious leaders try and gain some publicity.

reply to post by thePharaoh


I am Muslim, American and a US Marine...I do not believe the US nor Isreal is behind this. I believe it is extremest Muslims in the region. And the reason they are not taking responsibility is because it would be a immediate death sentence them and those around.

I try not to dream nor make judgments solony on my hatred for some people but always blaming Israel or the US is an ignorant thing to do. It is the easy way out, until we have more info it is anybodies guess but it feels and seems like a terrorist attack perpetrated by extremist Muslims as much as I hate to see Muslim yet again in the same sentence at terrorist.

I as a muslim will pray for those lost and injured and hope they find their way to heaven and feel its warming embrace. I will then do the sale at a Catholic sermon on Sunday as we need all the help we can get from all religions and gods to stop this hatred that I believe is in this case caused by the Russian Govnt. (I do not believe revenge will do anything more than cause more caos and attacks, embolden our terrorist enemies)..

Example of revenge, when the Christians took Jerusalem in the 1100's they murdered all, this caused the Muslims to amass a great army and took back the city...with the path of revenge ensures was will always continue...

Though if this happened on US soil I would want revenge, just the nature of being human and imperfect...

May Allah and the Cristian god except the poor souls into heaven for all time...

Im thinking that Russia wants to finish the Chechnyan thing once and for all.....and they learned from 9/11 if you "prove" who did it immediately, everyone smells a rat!

Unlucky for Chechnya that they just happen to also be suspect #1 due to their history....sort of like Arabs in the US.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Arabs didn't fly planes into 2 buildings on 9/11? An Arab didn't try and blow up a x-mas tree lighting on the west coast?
An Arab didn't attempt to blow up a car in time square? An Arab didn't blow up the WTC in 93?
It wasn't an Arab that hit the naval ship in Yemen? ... Your right, it would be completely irrational to single out arabs as possible terrorists.

I also remember these videos coming out calling for the destruction of America... I am at a loss... I can't think of his nationality or race... Any ideas?

I wonder if these guys were all part of the same religion... If they were, we should find out which one!

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Arabs didn't fly planes into 2 buildings on 9/11? An Arab didn't try and blow up a x-mas tree lighting on the west coast?
An Arab didn't attempt to blow up a car in time square? An Arab didn't blow up the WTC in 93?
It wasn't an Arab that hit the naval ship in Yemen? ... Your right, it would be completely irrational to single out arabs as possible terrorists.

I also remember these videos coming out calling for the destruction of America... I am at a loss... I can't think of his nationality or race... Any ideas?

I wonder if these guys were all part of the same religion... If they were, we should find out which one!

edit on 1/26/2011 by Resurrectio because: (no reason given)

All of those attacks, or attempted attacks were perpetrated by the same individual/group bin Laden and al Qaeda. Jeffrey Dahmer raped, murdered, and ate 17 men. Should I assume all white people are raping, murdering, cannibals? No, that is ridiculous just as it is ridiculous to lay blame and single out all Arabs.

Originally posted by thePharaoh
Bomb was laid so russia join the zionists war on terror...i guess the isrealis are recruiting.

definatly mossad or cia laid.

they are not suiside bombers,they are suspect packages laid by the nwo mafia

Yup and people starred you even though there are no facts, proof or evidence to support such claims.
Gotta love ATS sometimes.

reply to post by marinesniper0351


Thank you for your candid response and service, and it looks like I was wrong so far this wasn't the work of Chechen's. But of a rogue "other" element in the Caucasus's as stated above.

Here's an article from 2006 about the group: www.jamestown.org...[tt_news]=4354 (If this doesn't work go to jamestown.org and type in Nogai Battalion)

And another from a human rights group about the Nogai: www.minorityrights.org...

Originally posted by thePharaoh
Bomb was laid so russia join the zionists war on terror...i guess the isrealis are recruiting.

definatly mossad or cia laid.

they are not suiside bombers,they are suspect packages laid by the nwo mafia

edit on 25-1-2011 by asala because: to remove all caps post,

Russia recently agree to create a palestinian state ..
this is the main reason

to support the "war on terror" against arab people

i saw somewhere on the news that it was NOT the chechen rebels

there is high chance indeed that it was a cover up terrorist act to blame somebody else

reply to post by Golithion


I question the claims that Russia solely represents '...Gog...' and/or '...Magog...". The reason being is that in London's Guild Hall are representations of these two 'giants'.

“Corineus and Gogmagog were two brave giants who richly valued their honour and exerted their whole strength and force in the defence of their liberty and country; so the City of London, by placing these, their representatives in their Guildhall, emblematically declare, that they will, like mighty giants defend the honour of their country and liberties of this their City; which excels all others, as much as those huge giants exceed in stature the common bulk of mankind.”

www.lordmayorsshow.org...

Many who came to settle in the 'New World', specifically in the area we call '...New York...', were mostly from the British Isles, or Britain, or England, and London. Their descendants were 'Caucasians' who came from the region of the world called the CAUCASUS MOUNTAINS! The involvement of the Royal 'elite' and their secret societies in the development of the area of the world we know as '...New York...' is well documented. Many cities and towns in this area of the world are named after cities and towns located in Britain, also called England, one named 'York'. Do not the British, or English, and their 'Caucasian' descendants, who created '...New York...' appear to '...richly value their honour..."? Do not these same peoples spend a great deal of time and money exerting '...their whole strength and force in defence of liberty and country..."? Is this a coincidence?