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Putin: retribution 'inevitable' for airport bomb

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posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


I support the doctrine of Christ, in its true form, however, modern American Christianity is false. If someone wants to be a Muslim, no problem, but it is the duty of a true Christian to try to tell them the Truth. Same goes for those who follow false Christianity, in all its forms. If they won't listen, thats on them!




posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by searching4truth

Originally posted by NadaCambia

The Chechen rebels have historically been pretty secular. There's no doubt that certain branches of the movement have been hijacked by Islamic fundamentalists(who are, it needs stating, at odds with secular Chechen rebels) but it's ridiculous to assert what you're doing. It reaks of political illiteracy.

I'm almost positive before this incident you had no idea about the Chechens. Almost certain of it.

The problem isn't Muslim fascists. The problem is Russia destroying Chechnyas instrafucture and every pillar of Democracy, while brutalising an entire people, to this day. That's the issue here. Whether rebel groups are Christian, Muslim, Atheist; it doesn't matter.

I again draw you to the point of the IRA, which has some similarity in regards to the situation. Were the goals of the IRA a holy war, or freedom from an opressive external force? In the case of the Christians, it probably wasn't religion.


Exactly. Although even in the case of the IRA there were always outside people trying to pin it on religious conflict, Catholics v. Protestants. Simple people will always fall for the religious justification even though I would dare to say that there has never been a religious war, there have been plenty of political wars that have used religion as justification for their physical or political ambitions.

It is interesting though, that they had only a week ago spoke out about Palestine and there own skeletons come tumbling out of the closet. I'm sure there are some here that would argue it was Mossad based on that little tid bit. However, I think it far more likely that the Chechans would take the opportunity to bring awareness to their own issue.


For sure, people often to tried to tie the movement as religious born. But it's naive. The Chechens could be Buddhist monks, they'd still be engaging in terrorism against Russia.

I'm dissapointed with alot of the original responses in this thread though. It seems if you don't understand something, it's become acceptable on ATS to throw out wild guesses or hunches, because research is seemingly too difficult. Rather than searching for truth, an increasing number of members are searching for 'evidence' that suits their own beliefs, discarding anything in the process that conflicts with said beliefs.

Regarding Mossad, I could entertain that, if not for the fact it'd be utterly pointless, imo. There's no need to covertly attack a nation, and risk being caught out, when terrorist groups are actively attacking said nation for you. Mossad are a horrible, vile group. Concluding any random terrorist attack is Mossad backed, without specific evidence, is rather stupid.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by NadaCambia
 


I support the doctrine of Christ


You follow Judaism then?




posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


Yeah, there seems to be a tread of surface knee jerk non factual based posts. I understand that ats is a conspiracy website, and some come only to fulfill their desire to travel off the normal path. When those suggestions are one liners, or even confined to one post, I'm fine, depending on my mood I may or may not reply. What burns me up is that some repeatedly post complete nonsense, although I'm sure there are a good deal of members that think I post nonsense as well
.

Just to be clear, I believe that this was most likely the actions of Chechans based on the historical and current climate between the groups, although I will reserve final judgment until all the facts are in.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


"Regarding Mossad, I could entertain that, if not for the fact it'd be utterly pointless, imo. There's no need to covertly attack a nation, and risk being caught out, when terrorist groups are actively attacking said nation for you. Mossad are a horrible, vile group. Concluding any random terrorist attack is Mossad backed, without specific evidence, is rather stupid."

What if they did 'covertly attack'? The motive and means to do so exists, don't they? Who supplies Iran with weapons and advanced technologies? Russia? China? How hard would it be for Mossad to create a 'U-boat' to carry out a mission, or for that matter, any other 'agency' in any other country to do the same? Is it possible that certain electronic communications technologies could be used to 'entrain' a thinking process and cause mental instability, or cause susceptible individuals to carry out an act of seemingly indescriminate 'terrorism'? Perhaps sending out a wave of 'U-boats' to create general mayhem would further serve the purpose of causing 'fear', which would then justify in the general publics eyes mandating the implementation of security technologies, many of them designed and/or manufactured where they have the most influence? Israel? USA? Britain? France? Japan? Maybe I'm wrong? What do ya'll think?



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by searching4truth
 


What if the Chechens and the Russians were being played against each other? Its been done to other nations. Afghanistan and Russia come to mind. CIA trained Bin Laden and the 'freedom fighters' didn't they?



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by searching4truth
 


The FACTS are hard to come by these days and its purposefully done that way in order to keep us confused. Its called PROPAGANDA. We live in a psyop 'world', where nothing is it seems. The 'deception is great'. Dig hard for the truth though, its there.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


NOPE. Judaism isn't based upon the 'doctrine of Christ'.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by thePharaoh
 


"i know putin knows who did this, be careful of those red tie wearers in the shadows"

Me thinks Putin knows EXACTLY who did it. Open warfare may come swiftly and suddenly.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by searching4truth
 


What if the Chechens and the Russians were being played against each other? Its been done to other nations. Afghanistan and Russia come to mind. CIA trained Bin Laden and the 'freedom fighters' didn't they?



The Russians invaded Afghanistan of their own desire, it true that the US used the situation to fight a proxy war with the Russians to weaken them and fulfill their own desire to stop the spread of communism. Yes, the US trained bin Laden and others (the taliban), as well as providing them with money and supplies.

Could the Chechen/Russia situation be the result of a similar proxy war? I don't think so. The Chechens were never happy being under Russian rule, from the time the Russians came into power they were resistant. Uprisings have been going on since around 1900, it's nothing new. Over history, the Russians have been brutal to the Chechens. Stalin attempted a mass ethnic cleansing of the area after one of the uprisings. I think the overly aggressive response to these uprisings is what has propelled the Chechen cause into more modern times. Nearly ever generation has at least one event with the Russian government to renew the desire and commitment to trying to procure their autonomy.

I do not think that Russia will ever let Chechnya go. After the fall of communism many areas broke off and were petitioning to become part of NATO. To lose even one more area is another demonstration of the continually weakening Russia. This is unacceptable, to the government and I believe that they will not only hold on to it by any means necessary but I also believe that will attempt to regain control of the separated satellite states.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by thePharaoh
Bomb was laid so russia join the zionists war on terror...i guess the isrealis are recruiting.

definatly mossad or cia laid.

they are not suiside bombers,they are suspect packages laid by the nwo mafia

I can assure you the Russians are quite capable of staging their own false flags.

I wouldn't mind betting ancient Rome staged false flags at times.
There's nothing new about setting up a situation to make another person/group look bad.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by NadaCambia
 


"Regarding Mossad, I could entertain that, if not for the fact it'd be utterly pointless, imo. There's no need to covertly attack a nation, and risk being caught out, when terrorist groups are actively attacking said nation for you. Mossad are a horrible, vile group. Concluding any random terrorist attack is Mossad backed, without specific evidence, is rather stupid."

What if they did 'covertly attack'? The motive and means to do so exists, don't they? Who supplies Iran with weapons and advanced technologies? Russia? China? How hard would it be for Mossad to create a 'U-boat' to carry out a mission, or for that matter, any other 'agency' in any other country to do the same? Is it possible that certain electronic communications technologies could be used to 'entrain' a thinking process and cause mental instability, or cause susceptible individuals to carry out an act of seemingly indescriminate 'terrorism'? Perhaps sending out a wave of 'U-boats' to create general mayhem would further serve the purpose of causing 'fear', which would then justify in the general publics eyes mandating the implementation of security technologies, many of them designed and/or manufactured where they have the most influence? Israel? USA? Britain? France? Japan? Maybe I'm wrong? What do ya'll think?



I think you slightly misunderstood me. It's of course possible... What I'm asking is why? Why would Mossad need to do that? If the Chechen rebels are already carrying out attacks against Russia and her people, what would be the purpose. Why dirty your own hands if you don't need to?

The whole point of false flagging is surely to deceive, by manufacturing situations and creating support for a cause, goal or military action that otherwise wouldn't exist.. isn't it? I'm saying it would be utterly pointless. There's no need for a false flag when you have genuine flags, and a population already hungry for Chechen blood.

Ultimately it always comes back to a lack of evidence. Without evidence these are just ideas. You know, what if the Fijian government set off the bombs? If that's what you think research and document your findings, and if possible prove it.

I don't mean to sound rude, I'm trying to speak in generalities while staying to the topics in your post.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by searching4truth
 


What if the Chechens and the Russians were being played against each other? Its been done to other nations. Afghanistan and Russia come to mind. CIA trained Bin Laden and the 'freedom fighters' didn't they?



But that's marginally different. America backed Taliban insurgents to stop Russian advancements in the region. Its not technically playing one against the other, as America only backed 1 horse. They didn't support Russia.

These could all be possible, but without evidence it's nothing but brainstorming ideas... What if Russia played America against Vietnam. What if France played Britain against the IRA. There's tons of what ifs you could create, all equally dismissable without objective evidence.

As with the Taliban, the Russians are not being played. Being the imperial dictatorship that Russia is, it's simply another case of Russia impeding on other peoples land, stealing it and controlling it. Every country and people in that region have fallen to Russia at one point or another lol. They hardly need CIA encouragement! This goes back to before the existence of the CIA. They want Chechenya because it's a gateway into Middle East and Asia. No other reason. The Chechens are fighting and engaging in terrorism because they want their own country, seperate from Russian control.

You could however make an argument that enemies of Russia have funded the Chechens. I've seen no objective proof, but many a Russian politician has made the claim the group receives funding from British and American secret services. BUT, just line in Britain and America, the government love an enemy. Anti-America and British sentiment is just as popular amongst backwards Russian politicians as it is our own towards Russia and the 'commies'

So sure, there's potentially an argument that the CIA have at one point or another supported or funded the Chechen rebels in some way. But without objective facts it's just a questionable belief based on the shady history of the CIA. Fantasy, really.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by NadaCambia
 


NOPE. Judaism isn't based upon the 'doctrine of Christ'.



I didn't say that. What I said is the 'Doctrines of Christ' is Judaism.

Following now?



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by searching4truth

Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by searching4truth
 


What if the Chechens and the Russians were being played against each other? Its been done to other nations. Afghanistan and Russia come to mind. CIA trained Bin Laden and the 'freedom fighters' didn't they?



The Russians invaded Afghanistan of their own desire, it true that the US used the situation to fight a proxy war with the Russians to weaken them and fulfill their own desire to stop the spread of communism. Yes, the US trained bin Laden and others (the taliban), as well as providing them with money and supplies.

Could the Chechen/Russia situation be the result of a similar proxy war? I don't think so. The Chechens were never happy being under Russian rule, from the time the Russians came into power they were resistant. Uprisings have been going on since around 1900, it's nothing new. Over history, the Russians have been brutal to the Chechens. Stalin attempted a mass ethnic cleansing of the area after one of the uprisings. I think the overly aggressive response to these uprisings is what has propelled the Chechen cause into more modern times. Nearly ever generation has at least one event with the Russian government to renew the desire and commitment to trying to procure their autonomy.

I do not think that Russia will ever let Chechnya go. After the fall of communism many areas broke off and were petitioning to become part of NATO. To lose even one more area is another demonstration of the continually weakening Russia. This is unacceptable, to the government and I believe that they will not only hold on to it by any means necessary but I also believe that will attempt to regain control of the separated satellite states.


Very well articulated post, should have saved my finger energy



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by thePharaoh
Bomb was laid so russia join the zionists war on terror...i guess the isrealis are recruiting.

definatly mossad or cia laid.

they are not suiside bombers,they are suspect packages laid by the nwo mafia

I can assure you the Russians are quite capable of staging their own false flags.

I wouldn't mind betting ancient Rome staged false flags at times.
There's nothing new about setting up a situation to make another person/group look bad.


Speaking of 'ancient' history and the art of war. Did you know many a European nation in battle, if faced with defeat, would set fire to their own ships and attempt a sea-bound kamikazi in rare cases on their enemies?

Humans have a long history, when faced with defeat, of taking their own lifes and that of their 'enemies' with them.

"Kill all your leaders, with my savage lyrical thesis. Rip out my f//kin' heart and eat it before I'm defeated" Vinnie Paz


False flags in history would be hard to prove, it's hard enough mounting a case in todays day and age!



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bombing.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bombing.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bombing.

Hmmm, since NO ONE has come out and stated their reasoning or their complicitness, we can ASSUME this was an act of TERRORISM.

Now, we have to look at the FACT that TERRORISM can have one of TWO objectives, one to foment anger and hate against the oppressors, or the FACT that it can be used to foment anger and hate against the terrorists.

STILL WAITING FOR SOME FACTS!



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
And you're for the Russian's who butchered thousands of civilians, detained them without trial, tortured, maimed, and killed thousands of people?


Russia launched a military intervention in a region (which was part of Russia historically) that was taken over by Radical Islamist warlords. Before the Russians went into Chechnya in 1994, the Islamist warlords began to cleanse their de-facto republic of all non-Chechens. Tens of thousands of Russians were murdered, and even more were driven from their homes forever. The radical militants also began to raid neighboring parts of Russia.

During the wars Russia did not target civilians deliberately. The militants often used them as human shields. On several occasions Russia allowed civilians to evacuate from Grozny before the bombing began. Please learn more about the conflict if you are going to start to come up with justifications for actions like this terrorist attack.




Originally posted by LanMan54
What did the US do during this time?


Why invade Kosovo and attack Serbia of course. Some time later it would attack Iraq to look for WMD's. If anyone has a right to point fingers and call Russia out for how it conducted the Chechen war, the US is the last country to do it.



Originally posted by LanMan54
Why they sat back and watched, issued a few 'statements', and did nothing.


What did you want them to do? Russia sees to its internal affairs as it sees fit. Chechnya was never recognized by anyone as an independent nation - it is part of Russia's jurisdiction, and Russia has the right to combat criminal elements there.



Originally posted by LanMan54
Such wonderful 'humanitarians', don't you think?


No large nation is a humanitarian. Politics come first. US or anyone else is a humanitarian only when it serves their political needs.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia
The Chechen rebels have historically been pretty secular. There's no doubt that certain branches of the movement have been hijacked by Islamic fundamentalists(who are, it needs stating, at odds with secular Chechen rebels) but it's ridiculous to assert what you're doing. It reaks of political illiteracy.


No they have not. Dudayev was the only one of the truly secular separatist leaders. However after 1994 he was no longer in actual control of the conflict, and remained largely a symbolic figurehead. The whole separatist movement was hijacked by the Islamists almost from the start. Basayev, Khattab, Barayev, Yandarbiev, and to some extent Maskhadov - were all Islamists and fanatics. The secular factions of the militants were very quickly overwhelmed, and mattered little for the remainder of the conflict.

The reason why the conflict took a religious turn so quick - is because the leadership saw it as the easiest opportunity to spread conflict outside of Chechnya - which would make their job in Chechnya easier. It is true that religion was mainly a tool - the true separatist leadership was after the money and the loot associated with war. But that is how they managed to recruit countless brainwashed idiots.



Originally posted by NadaCambia
The problem is Russia destroying Chechnyas instrafucture and every pillar of Democracy


There was no democracy or any remote trace of it. There was never a referendum for independence. The Chechens simple forced Russians and all non-Chechens to move out, or killed them in early 90's. Thousands of Russians who lived in Chechnya were killed even before the war started, and tens of thousands were forced to flee and leave their belongings to Chechens. I've been there around that time, and I know what Dudayev and his thugs were doing and what their intentions were. Dudayev was also never elected by anyone - he was invited to rule by the local counsil of separatists, and then he killed and chased away most of the said council to make his job easier.

It was a lawless criminal state from the very beginning to the end. It was not self-sustainable, and attacked and raided neighboring Russian regions.

What pillar of Democracy are you talking about? You accuse people of not knowing about the war in Chechenya, yet you yourself are utterly clueless beyond a select picking of items that suit your agenda.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


Is it possible that the Jews in Israel, who created Mossad, see the Russians and the Chinese as those nations prophesied to invade and destroy the city of Jerusalem and take over Israel? Many among the Judaised Christian peoples are convinced this is going to happen.




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