Do not be decieved by UFO's!!!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by freedish
Don't go by what man says, go by what God says.

God? Would that be that guy in that old book that wants you to worship him and blindly follow? "The Lord is thy shepherd..."? Is he the one that gets mad all the time when you don't, mad enough to throw a hissy fit and wipe out all creatures by drowning them because a few people ticked him off?. Sounds to me like I know where the real deception lies... and it's been fooling people for 2000 plus years.

Wow, your bottom line seems to be a combination of stages one and two.

Perhaps when you graduate from childish, judgmental statements in response to another’s faith, you will find it self-evident that there is a God more powerful than men. Also, that His ways are not the ways of men.

Re Soke33

You wrote:

["Perhaps when you graduate from childish, judgmental statements in response to another’s faith, you will find it self-evident that there is a God more powerful than men. Also, that His ways are not the ways of men."]


Perhaps when you graduate from the childish statement, that the whole world is inside your holy bubble, you will find that it is self-evident that those existing outside your holy bubble expect more than circular argumentation, sermons and preachings.

Has this thread turned into a prayer-meeting?

reply to post by bogomil


This thread was started by a Christian in the religious section. I don’t believe he/she desired it to become a thread of Christian bashing.

I am sure there are many threads here more suited to your line of thinking, if discussion of the round world bothers you. But, remember that the world is not flat.

Originally posted by Soke33
This thread was started by a Christian in the religious section. I don’t believe he/she desired it to become a thread of Christian bashing.

Actually it was started in the UFO section because that is where I found it... and was moved later.

So it was a Christian bashing UFO believers

Originally posted by Soke33
Perhaps when you graduate from childish, judgmental statements in response to another’s faith, you will find it self-evident that there is a God more powerful than men. Also, that His ways are not the ways of men.

Hmmm... well the problem is that "God" is merely as you say a faith. He can no more be proven than can the existence of ET's so both are a matter of faith. Believe what you will, in the end we will all know the truth. But in this case the challenge was made to UFO believers that their belief was delusional...

So it is fair play to 'return fire'. You say it is self evident that God is real, I say I KNOW Aliens are real because I know people in the military that have interacted with them in real life. And those are not Demons

reply to post by Soke33

Remember what Jesus told us about the dark

John 3
19`And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;

20for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;

21but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.'

Originally posted by Soke33
reply to post by bogomil

 

This thread was started by a Christian in the religious section. I don’t believe he/she desired it to become a thread of Christian bashing.

When I subscribed to this thread it was in Aliens/UFO forum located in My ATS. I don't have Religion selected as a favorite for obvious reasons. I prefer to cut out the middle man whilst relating to my spiritual higher power. "My" GOD is good wit dat.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Soke33
Perhaps when you graduate from childish, judgmental statements in response to another’s faith, you will find it self-evident that there is a God more powerful than men. Also, that His ways are not the ways of men.

Hmmm... well the problem is that "God" is merely as you say a faith. He can no more be proven than can the existence of ET's so both are a matter of faith. Believe what you will, in the end we will all know the truth. But in this case the challenge was made to UFO believers that their belief was delusional...

So it is fair play to 'return fire'. You say it is self evident that God is real, I say I KNOW Aliens are real because I know people in the military that have interacted with them in real life. And those are not Demons

I obviously did not know that this thread was started in the UFO section by a Christian bashing the beliefs of others, and that does change some things. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I never stated that God is a faith. I was referring to the way one chooses to learn of God.

As I have previously stated, I believe there are beings outside of earth’s atmosphere. I also stated that, if there are good and bad entities here on earth, then there must be good and bad elsewhere. To deny that not only goes against a God, but the very nature of existence itself. There is positive and negative all around us. Why would beings in space be any different?

I like a lot of what you have shared, but that loose cannon you fired wasn’t only directed at the OP. If your goal is to fire at all believers of The Scriptures, I guess that would make you my enemy.

What a shame.

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Soke33

 

Remember what Jesus told us about the dark

John 3
19`And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;

20for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;

21but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.'

Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you... -Deuteronomy 6.14

That word after is Strong's Hebrew #310, from the root #309. It means to loiter.

My opinion:

You really should have started this in the religion section. The result of your actions brought darkness upon this discussion, not light.

If you are trying to follow Christ's example, you should probably do as He commanded.

Ye are the light of the world.
A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father Which is in heaven. -Matthew 5.14-16


Posting this in the UFO section was like putting your candle under a bushel.


You can't cut off their ear, if you want them to hear.

Then said Jesus unto him, "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword..." -Matthew 26.52

Re Soke33

You wrote:

["This thread was started by a Christian in the religious section. I don’t believe he/she desired it to become a thread of Christian bashing."]

While I for formal reasons acknowledge the initial author as a kind of ringmaster, this doesn't imply, that a public thread is a kind of private property, where only invited people and certain opinions are welcome. I'm quite sure, that the intention of the author wasn't 'christian bashing' as you call it, but instead intended to be a piece of christian propagandistic 'satan' talk.

Quote: ["I am sure there are many threads here more suited to your line of thinking, if discussion of the round world bothers you. But, remember that the world is not flat."]


No, this one suits me perfectly, according to my aim of presenting opinions opposing and questioning the christian obsession of preaching everywhere they get a chance. ATS is not a pulpit, no matter how much you guys would like to change it into that.

Insofar worldwievs can be categorized in 'camps', I believe it was 'my camp', which opposed flat planets and a geocentric solar system 6000 years old. Your example seems rather out of place.

Quote from a later post:

["As I have previously stated, I believe there are beings outside of earth’s atmosphere. I also stated that, if there are good and bad entities here on earth, then there must be good and bad elsewhere. To deny that not only goes against a God, but the very nature of existence itself. There is positive and negative all around us. Why would beings in space be any different?"]

Completely sensible for me, except for the god part which only is doctrinal, not real knowledge. My own attitude around the situation is, that we start with what we know and work from there, instead of putting available observations into a predetermined answer and use that as a propaganda tool.

I can see the first signs now of a debate on 'who are the REAL christians are', and the UFO aspect is forgotten, which only justifies my original suspicions. This is not about UFOs, it's about christianity with UFOs as an excuse, no matter where the thread started (which is irrelevant for me. A thread is a thread, even if it happens to be placed in the wrong category).

Hmmm... well the problem is that "God" is merely as you say a faith. He can no more be proven than can the existence of ET's so both are a matter of faith.

reply to post by zorgon

Extraterrestrials might be a mater of faith but they have more evidence supporting the possibility of their existence then the old testament god does. Given that the galaxy has over a billion stars and astronomers are beginning to discover exoplanets and that water is pretty abundant in the galaxy. Its not to difficult to reason that with a billion stars evolution could occur on some of the planets that orbit them if the conditions are right.
en.wikipedia.org...

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

reply to post by bogomil



I am a realist, not a religionist. So, setting aside the insults of one “camp” to another, we find that we agree. There are good and bad beings in the space around our earth. That is the bottom line, in my opinion. I think this is where the discussion should focus on trying to discern the distinguishing characteristics of both the good and bad.

For the record, I am a follower of Christ and the principles taught within the Scriptures. I love all kinds of people, not just professed Christians. Because of the knowledge I have through my studies, I’d be one of the first in line to condemn the practices of men attempting to subdue other men by the power of God, like men are animals. I believe that is what has stifled our progression, as an intelligent species.

As much as you try to blame all Christians for divisions among people, your post more than proves that the differences stem from every side. I will not judge you by anything other than your words and actions. If you continue to judge me because of my faith in God, you are the one inhibiting discussion that would bring unity among “camps,” which, at this point in this discussion, makes you no different than the OP in my eyes.

Edit to add: If men are wrong to try to subdue other men by the power of God, they are equally wrong in trying to subdue other men by the power of man.

Originally posted by Soke33

If your goal is to fire at all believers of The Scriptures, I guess that would make you my enemy.
What a shame.

I have debated religion and my view points with Rabbis, Imams, priests of many faiths for over 30 years and have yet to be considered an enemy of any of them. Most Muslim accept ET as a matter of fact and the Vatican wants to baptize them. The very fact that your God is not of this Earth makes Him a true ET... because anything not of this earth is by definition Extra Terrestrial.

What I do not fathom is how three religions, Jewish, Islam and Christian, can all believe in the same God, yet for thousands of years have been trying to wipe each other off the face of the planet and literally have killed non believers ( and still are in some areas) I find it impossible to support such a belief system.

As to Jesus, he is also a prophet of Islam... Edgar Casey predicted that one of the Popes would release the hidden papers in the Vatican vaults before 2000 that reveal the truth of Jesus... that Pope was assassinated... and the Rosicrucians will tell you that Jesus was one of them

So it really is a matter of choice which version of truth one wishes to believe... and most religions today are based on nothing more than man's interpretation

Above the Potala in Lhasa Tibet there is a sign over the gate. Translated it reads "One Thousand Monks, One Thousand Religions". Wise words those... everyone is on their own path

Although I commend you for this post: (most recent and well presented)

reply to post by Soke33


I must take issue with your prior one:

reply to post by Soke33


Quoting scripture to defend your belief is like a BYOB AA meeting.

You simply can't expect us to accept that the passages you provide further your argument when the very existence of the GOD featured in your brand of religion is in doubt by those of us who reject the entire premise of this thread. (I hope that makes sense as I am trying to point out the absurdity of it. Perhaps speaking in a foreign language to someone who doesn't speak that language would be a more apt analogy.)

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Soke33

If your goal is to fire at all believers of The Scriptures, I guess that would make you my enemy.
What a shame.

I have debated religion and my view points with Rabbis, Imams, priests of many faiths for over 30 years and have yet to be considered an enemy of any of them. Most Muslim accept ET as a matter of fact and the Vatican wants to baptize them. The very fact that your God is not of this Earth makes Him a true ET... because anything not of this earth is by definition Extra Terrestrial.

What I do not fathom is how three religions, Jewish, Islam and Christian, can all believe in the same God, yet for thousands of years have been trying to wipe each other off the face of the planet and literally have killed non believers ( and still are in some areas) I find it impossible to support such a belief system.

As to Jesus, he is also a prophet of Islam... Edgar Casey predicted that one of the Popes would release the hidden papers in the Vatican vaults before 2000 that reveal the truth of Jesus... that Pope was assassinated... and the Rosicrucians will tell you that Jesus was one of them

So it really is a matter of choice which version of truth one wishes to believe... and most religions today are based on nothing more than man's interpretation

Above the Potala in Lhasa Tibet there is a sign over the gate. Translated it reads "One Thousand Monks, One Thousand Religions". Wise words those... everyone is on their own path

So, all of your debating with people of different religions has found you still firing cheap shots at a person expressing their faith, obviously a youngster. At least you admit that you don’t understand one having faith in a god.

What I don’t understand is the need for cheap shots.

How do you know that the God of the Bible is not of the Earth?

Habakkuk 3.3 states HE came from Teman, which means the south. Deuteronomy 33.2 states it more specifically that He came from Sinai. Ezekiel 16 teaches that He wed Jerusalem because it is His favorite place in all the universe. Consider the two dimensions taught in Scripture, the heavenly and earthly, and it is conceivable that God is from Earth before the separation of the dimensions.

Jeremiah 4 speaks of a war against God on earth. After His anger, He saw the earth void and without form; there was no man left and all the birds of heaven had fled. Earth was made a wilderness from the wrath that stemmed from His heart being broken; caused by His children that did not know Him, and they were sottish and “wise to do evil.” But, He still didn’t make an end to it. The earth has to mourn with Him. There is a lot of groaning described, and it is witnessed on and in the earth, even today.

Maybe from your perspective, the God of the Bible is an ET. From mine, He is originally from here, and He is trying to live here again amidst His created beings that He loves so much. Rebellious hearts retard that, but He does return in the end…I’ve read the back of the Book.

So, yeah…believe what you want. I know what I know, and that is how I live my life. If I am in a discussion, and someone insults Whom I hold so dear, there will be a reaction from me; but, I don’t take cheap shots. All of my years of study, discussion and even debate has matured me much more than that.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Although I commend you for this post: (most recent and well presented)

reply to post by Soke33

 

I must take issue with your prior one:

reply to post by Soke33

 

Quoting scripture to defend your belief is like a BYOB AA meeting.

You simply can't expect us to accept that the passages you provide further your argument when the very existence of the GOD featured in your brand of religion is in doubt by those of us who reject the entire premise of this thread. (I hope that makes sense as I am trying to point out the absurdity of it. Perhaps speaking in a foreign language to someone who doesn't speak that language would be a more apt analogy.)

edit on 26-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)

I am pleased that some common ground has been found. That is light in a dark thread.

The prior post was to someone quoting Scripture, and it was intended for that person. If quoting Scripture to someone quoting Scripture gets me scrutinzed, without the the other poster being scrutinized first, you may want to rethink your comment.

Anyway, who else's booze would I bring?

Originally posted by Soke33
reply to post by bogomil

 

I am a realist, not a religionist. So, setting aside the insults of one “camp” to another, we find that we agree.

Actually I saw no insults, not like some of these thread that get nasty.

For the record, I am a follower of Christ and the principles taught within the Scriptures. I love all kinds of people, not just professed Christians. Because of the knowledge I have through my studies, I’d be one of the first in line to condemn the practices of men attempting to subdue other men by the power of God, like men are animals. I believe that is what has stifled our progression, as an intelligent species.


That is all well and good... however the thread specifically says this...

"Do not be decieved by UFO's!!!"

So the focus should be that, not a debate on whose God has more kahonas. I for one, do not belief we are being deceived by UFO's especially since I am sure 80ish % are plasma lifeforms . I just think that man's interpretation of God in all it's various forms is where deception lies. They cannot ALL be right, and each sect says the other guy is wrong. In the end its a contest of who recruits the most sheep.

Matthew 17:20 Jesus says quite clearly:

"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. "

He meant that LITERALLY

Yoda:
“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

Luke:
“I can’t believe it.”

Yoda:
“That is why you fail.”

From where I sit, the "Force" is as good as any other "God" one may believe in. In the end whether we are but food for worms, or there is more to come, we will KNOW absolutely which version is right. All that matters is that when that day comes you can stand up and say "I did no evil"

reply to post by Soke33


I should have put this in the religious section- but I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just stating the truth. Jesus told us that many people would be deceived by false doctrines in the last days. And I love the people in the UFO forums, they are very open minded and intelligent -and a lot are seeking answers.

Originally posted by Soke33
What I don’t understand is the need for cheap shots.

Well many here do understand my 'style', but it is hard to take the premise of this thread seriously. If you step in front of a cannon, expect to take hits

How do you know that the God of the Bible is not of the Earth?

Simple, because he created the Earth so he must have come from elsewhere.

Habakkuk 3.3 states HE came from Teman, which means the south. Deuteronomy 33.2 states it more specifically that He came from Sinai. Ezekiel 16 teaches that He wed Jerusalem because it is His favorite place in all the universe. Consider the two dimensions taught in Scripture, the heavenly and earthly, and it is conceivable that God is from Earth before the separation of the dimensions.

For a Book that is supposed to be 100% truth, there sure is a lot of confusion in it, and many passages subject to many interpretations. This is exactly why tossing snippets of Scripture into a discussion carries little weight. Does it really make sense to you that He was from Earth, when he hadn't created Earth yet?

It's like the story of Adam and Eve, who had two sons. That makes four people. So Cain snuffs Able, gets a reprimand and then gets kicked out to marry a women and rule he people. And yeah I have had numerous explanations of how that works. Sadly few of them match each other.

And how many people truly know how many of each critter got on the Ark? Most that you will ask give you the standard answer. Just proves to me they didn't even read the Book before they went on a Mission

If I am in a discussion, and someone insults Whom I hold so dear, there will be a reaction from me; but, I don’t take cheap shots. All of my years of study, discussion and even debate has matured me much more than that.

Perhaps it is more likely that you seek out perceived insults to present your case

Originally posted by freedish
I should have put this in the religious section- but I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just stating the truth. Jesus told us that many people would be deceived by false doctrines in the last days. And I love the people in the UFO forums, they are very open minded and intelligent -and a lot are seeking answers.

Well if you did you wouldn't have reached most of the UFO crowd, they don't hang around the religious threads a lot . But seriously where is all this bashing? I just see strong opinions on both sides. If ones faith be it God, or be It Tentacled Monsters From Alpha Centauri... if one cannot discuss the difference without someone saying 'bashing' then we all best just turn off the computer