United States War On Wikileaks

People, stories made of fiction are now real. Before 9/11 and war in the middle east, the concept of a Government hunting someone like this seemed like a conspiracy theory before then.. And the concept of them hunting a person and being vocal about it would have been absurd. 9/11 provided the U.S. with the most effective tool in their arsenal, the label of 'Terrorist'. With it they can strategically neutralize any person or group of people without having to publicize reports or listen to American opinion. Simply because Terrorists shot America in her heart on September 11 and continue to have their iron-sights locked onto freedom itself - anyone who isn't driven to seek the truth will accept this entirely and look the other way when it comes to this debate.

We need to highlight the problems surrounding the wikileaks, US Govmt. Leaked cables situation.

My attitude towards this whole debate isn't an attempt to be anti-american or try to add salt to the wound, It's not the American people that are at fault, it is their leaders. The most troubling is this blatant aggressive and immediate call for Julian Assange to be 'shut up' by any means necessary. By which they simply call for his murder to happen and many of these terrorist-alarm bell ringers don’t seem to care so much about international laws or human rights, let alone a trial where questions are asked and Julian may respond.

They can argue that espionage, which is what Julian has apparently been found guilty of without a trial, makes you a terrorist. Terrorists are not given trial, are not subject to human-rights standard prison's, are not allowed any basic rights at all and simply could die without anyone in the real world being aware of the true circumstances behind their death.

I am not saying that terrorists deserve to be set free or allowed to continue spreading their hate filled ideology. I am saying simply that, for a man who has never taken up arms against anyone, has never spread any hate filled ideology, never been quoted saying anything that would suggest he gloats in pride due to the releases and continues to this day to reiterate the true reasons for his action (see below).. A man such as this is not in any way a conventional terrorist, he seems more like a human-rights protector who simply has actual evidence to make a proper argument in his case, for that reason he should die (According to many important figures in the US)

Quote taken from an archive of his personal blog, iq.org.

"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence and thereby eventually lose all ability to defend ourselves and those we love. In a modern economy it is impossible to seal oneself off from injustice.
If we have brains or courage, then we are blessed and called on not to frit these qualities away, standing agape at the ideas of others, winning pissing contests, improving the efficiencies of the neocorporate state, or immersing ourselves in obscuranta, but rather to prove the vigor of our talents against the strongest opponents of love we can find.
If we can only live once, then let it be a daring adventure that draws on all our powers. Let it be with similar types whos hearts and heads we may be proud of. Let our grandchildren delight to find the start of our stories in their ears but the endings all around in their wandering eyes.
The whole universe or the structure that perceives it is a worthy opponent, but try as I may I can not escape the sound of suffering. Perhaps as an old man I will take great comfort in pottering around in a lab and gently talking to students in the summer evening and will accept suffering with insouciance. But not now; men in their prime, if they have convictions are tasked to act on them."

What this leaked information provides, is actual insight and hard-evidence into the secret conduct of a Government who lies to its people in order to preserve power and dominance. This information was never intended for public eyes, it would have simply vanished into the 'unknown, unknown'. Unknown to the people who vote, unknown to the next generation of people in power. Those who know take these secrets to their grave in the name of patriotic Americanism.

The biggest threat to freedom has made itself visible as a result of this saga. What do you think when you realize just how far the deceit runs? Which most accurately describes your stance?
"Oh well we the people don't need to bother ourselves with the conduct of our Government, it’s better for me not to know, makes for a more stable Government and stronger diplomatic relationships"
"Whilst I don’t agree with the U.S. over this secret information, I believe there are certain things the people don’t need to know"
"How much else are we not being shown or don't have access to at this point? Very concerning"
"These leaks have opened my eyes, shown me evidence which has now allowed me to create an informed opinion which is built on solid proof, not just conspiracy theories. I can now make an argument without being labeled a 'crack-job' because those guilty parties cannot hide from this actual evidence"

I am not trying to dictate how this debate should go, nor put words in your mouth. I am merely trying to put into perspective the basic ideas which seem to be floating around with regards to this debate.

What we can expect as a result:

i) Reduced freedom of information on the internet. The wheels are already rolling to setup a filter in the U.S., whether it is being used now to block obvious things which we morally can’t argue about, such as child porn and other sick content. When a system such as this takes place, the controls over what is and what isn’t filtered is entirely left in the hands of high-level Government agencies. Do we simply trust them with this control? They hide information now. And they will hide information on these filters in the future.

ii) Absolute control over Government/Military personnel. Barrack Obama was quoted recent with the suggestion that tighter security was needed to prevent leaking of information in the future. He suggested that a series of systems be implemented to analyze and measure the risk of a worker/soldier becoming disgruntled, which may encourage them to leak whatever secrets they have. So the first priority is lock-down the sources of information by conducting psych evaluations and essentially allow control over everyone in Government. Stop the source, stop the debate? If this happens, say goodbye to democracy and hello to sheepocracy.

iii) Continued corruption of freedoms. Over the course of 50 years, the American Government has done more to circumvent the constitution by introducing tactically sound changes and new systems of law which can be manipulated in any way possible in order to make the constitution irrelevant. It doesn't take much to see this as internal corruption which is malforming the freedoms Americans once had. Don’t expect any current system to roll-back and don’t expect it to stop there.. Time won’t stop and with time new threats are realized and with that, new measures of control are needed, with that freedoms are diluted even further.

Look here: U.S. Supreme Court Issues Landmark Decision: Constitution is void

The constitution is vital to every American who values their freedom.. Your power is now void and your freedom is less. Its only getting worse.

What is my point?

Please don’t allow your freedoms, or the freedoms of your children, or their children, become less valuable than the freedoms we enjoyed.

Please don’t ignore the innocent people that have suffered or been a victim of injustice. This information is your right as a freedom loving person, you have the right to use it to question your leaders and demand action be taken.

Please defend what you believe in, even if it means questioning the people you trusted.

They must be accountable and the people have the right to hold them accountable. The day we lose that right, freedom dies.

Is no one else concerned about the way this is heading? I really wanted to generate a discussion and debate.

Are all people obliged to simply stand idle and support this simply to remain patriotic? Patriotism works in situations where defence of a nation is required, when voting, when building roads or driving industry, creating jobs, helping those country men/women in need or supporting the ideals/beliefs/laws which were created 100's of years ago.

The actions of a true patriot are always for the people and the country made of those people. A true patriot cannot prioritise his Government, before he prioritises his people. Since the Government speaks for and acts for the people, lies and deceit are crimes against the people and an insult to patriotism in its true form.

Those who know full well of these lies and deceit, yet claim to be patriotic Americans must look at themselves for what they are; patriots who put the people second and put their secret Government first. These people are truly un-American given the facts.

Again every day their is evidence mounting against the rights and freedoms of people.

Facing 15 years in jail for audio recording police

The authorities say that Mr. Drew and Ms. Moore audio-recorded their separate nonviolent encounters with Chicago police officers without the officers’ permission, a Class 1 felony in Illinois, which, along with Massachusetts and Oregon, has one of the country’s toughest, if rarely prosecuted, eavesdropping laws. “Before they arrested me for it,” Ms. Moore said, “I didn’t even know there was a law about eavesdropping. I wasn’t trying to sue anybody. I just wanted somebody to know what had happened to me.”

It is illegal for you to obtain audio evidence which was recorded with a police officer present?

Therefore.. It is illegal for you to obtain evidence to support your case should that offier lie or distort the truth in court.

Democracy? Patriotism? These words are void when this is what the people are faced with.

Your freedom to defend yourself and hold the authorities accountable is nonexistant. Accountability, it means when something happens, what DID happen is the truth and the actions of those responsible should be proven without a doubt by any means neccessary. The most credible piece of evidence is denied to you by law.

I can speculate and say these laws were created to control the people and defend authorities rights before the rights of a civilian. I can also draw comparison and say this type of stuff only happens in Russia, China and the Nazi occupied Germany.

"Yeh but the USA is a free democracy" Look at the evidence in front of you. They can call it what they want and carry on about this great freedom loving society, the evidence proves that bit by bit you are losing your most vital freedoms, the ones that give you the right to question your Government and the authorities.

Doublepost - firefox glitch. sorry.

Good thread....but there's one thing:

There's no debate.
In my humble opinion, of course.

I agree with you 100%!
I'd like to see the reckless nature of our corrupt leaders go full circle.
We need honesty in America.
But too much money controls the political system.
It has gone too far, for too long.

What's going to happen next?
To me, your are either with them or against them. Corrupt leaders...I mean.
There is no in-between.

So I don't see a debate but more like a well published thought.
Kudos to you friend.

But try to explain this to even half of Americans and you get the same result.

Apathy.

Their collectively too busy...too distracted.
It's a system that works well for those in power.
When you only anger a small percentage of people, you can acheive anything.

We are that small percentage.

The rest are too worried about the Superbowl.

great thread OP
i live in the UK and can say the same thing for us
its worldwide not just the U S of A.
and i cant see things changing any time soon
individually people are too comfortable and frankly dont care or know about whats happening around them.
this is the reality in todays age
there is no community
im obviously not saying this is the case for every living soul but certainly a vast majority of the population of earth
i myself feel the same as you but we alone can do nothing until sheeples awake and realise the truth!

Originally posted by havok
There's no debate.
------------------------
But try to explain this to even half of Americans and you get the same result.

Apathy.

Their collectively too busy...too distracted.
It's a system that works well for those in power.
When you only anger a small percentage of people, you can acheive anything.

edit on 25-1-2011 by havok because: Addd some words

This is precisely the problem. People literally are trading in their freedoms to satisfy their lust for wealth and laziness.

Originally posted by GezinhoKiko
great thread OP
i live in the UK and can say the same thing for us
its worldwide not just the U S of A.
and i cant see things changing any time soon
individually people are too comfortable and frankly dont care or know about whats happening around them.
this is the reality in todays age
there is no community
im obviously not saying this is the case for every living soul but certainly a vast majority of the population of earth
i myself feel the same as you but we alone can do nothing until sheeples awake and realise the truth!

I live in Australia, but I can see the UK going down the same path as the US on many key issues.

There is community but not the sort that acknowledges and discusses issues like this. When ever you start talking to someone about this problem they seem to zone out after 30 seconds and think your a conspiracy nut. Either that or they simply dont care or arent in a position to change their whole way of thinking based on the word of mouth opinion of another person.

People often need to sit down and get locked into a topic of research till the point where they have satisfied their disbelief and adopted a firm belief in the facts surrounding this problem. They need to discover the truth themselves for it to stick and become what they consider fact.

Lets face it, unless the TV or news tell the other 99% of people what to think, they simply wont change what they think. If its not on the news, its not real enough to make you snap to attention.