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Why we could never win, Ten years ongoing by a Soldier

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posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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To start with I am A Vietnam Vet. I say this to prove I have standing and a right to say this.

I, too was young and Naive, thought I was doing my patriotic duty by serving our Nation in the Military.

The evening I told my parents that I had Volunteered for the Army, Mother went into tears and my Father, a WW2 vet, got madder than I had ever seen him. All he could get out was “Boy, You are going to get what you deserve”. Did not understand my parents reaction, I thought I was doing the “right thing”. We were a middle class, all American family, Isn’t it our “Duty” to serve?

AS history has proved out the Vietnam war was started by a False Flag , just so the Military Industrial Complex could make their sales. Same as Korea. Same as Iraq, same as Afghanistan.

It is ALWAYS about the Money, PERIOD.

Sadam had stated that he was no longer going to use US Dollars for oil trades. Next thing you know in goes the Military.

Afghanistan, we are protecting UNOCAL oil pipeline as the prime mission, but as opportunist the US is we see that using the opium trade, shipping heroin to eastern Europe and Russia will weaken their population and net large sums of cash for the black budget, so this becomes a secondary mission.

But, back to the Point. You we used by this Nation’s elite to Make the Richman Richer, same as I was in the 70’s. Winning the war was NEVER the goal, the US will NEVER leave Iraq or Afghanistan.




posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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I respect your service in Vietnam, but I too am a vet, and I would totally disagree with your viewpoint on this. In Korea and Vietnam, we were in the midst of a Cold War, having the ability to destroy all life on Earth. These "battles" were not wars, but rather smaller fights to avoid having big fights to break out. During the Cuban missile crisis, we nearly made the "Big Mistake" that would have taken out all of what we know as civilization. That was NOT a military-industrial complex thing, that was the REAL war to end all wars!

With as much time that has passed since the Berlin Wall fell, and the Soviet Union disintegrated, many have totally lost the perspective of those episodes where really BIG things NEARLY happened. If not for Vietnam, what would have happened in the war HAD been in the infamous Fulda Gap? Far more lives would have been lost than probably all previous wars COMBINED!

While I may not have placed as much emphasis as I should have on it, our primary goal is to shift WHERE the fight against terrorism is fought. While we went into Iraq for reasons other than those we proclaimed, we went into Afghanistan because bin Laden had a safe haven to plan attacks against our Embassies, military compounds, and then even our homeland. THAT is why we are fighting in Afghanistan, and will be fighting there for years. The terrorists are on the defensive, instead of striking our targets at will.

The military-industrial complex is alive and well, but if you look back historically, that same military-industrial complex was the "Arsenal of Freedom" that outproduced the Nazis and Japanese nations when they sought to dominate the world. The only reason were are not now being attacked is because we are the ones doing the attacking.

It would be nice if the world were a peaceful place, but it isn't. Therefore, men and women of our nation still strap on their helmets, grab their rifles and go to combat, just as they will 40 years from now!.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by brokedown
 


wow best post so far couldn't agree more i sympathise with soldiers but you need to step back a bit why are you risking your life for people that use you not for the countries benefit but for the benefit of a small number of mega powerful people , Let Bushs and HIS kids go to war dick cheneys too they are draft dodgers and they think their too important to defend their own country . look how this scum talk about brave young men
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." Henry Kissinger



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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In your mind and in those that also blindly follow orders, what are you actually fighting for? How does the typical jar-head justify a military presence in Iraq? "They killed my friends" doesn't really constitute a valid reason. I take my hat off to the civilians of iraq who aren't standing for their families being blown to smithereens, would you not want to exact revenge if some foreign body entered your country and murdered countless civilians? I know i sure as hell would, and you're lying if you say otherwise. I'm sick of people justifying the killing of innocents.

We all know this is an illegal war and you'll never be considered a hero. You're damn right this war isn't winnable, that was NEVER the agenda.




Imagine will you the pain of these children and their families. Lives snuffed out before they were even given the chance to experience life. Put ourselves in your boots? but yourself in the boots of THESE PEOPLE!
edit on 24-1-2011 by YouDeserveToKnow because:

edit on 24-1-2011 by YouDeserveToKnow because: removal of profanity



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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True bro star to you i get angry too the way people are fine with a bit of senseless killing . one day we may be in the iraquis position but by that point we will be attacked by our own armies , martial law is coming



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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I'm having a hard problem understanding why some folks are feeling hurt, confused, used, or are surprised at the results we've gotten in Iraq/Afghanistan.

This is the first time in human history that men have fought each other?

A couple things: Our American generals don't know their business.

They set up our troops to be hit with their complete lack of military skills. Oh, sure, they can kiss the right political ass, they have excelled in mistake avoidance, have pristine performance reports, they successfully worked the Washington cocktail circuit, and they are all politically correct at all times.

Characteristics not exhibited by Morgan, Greene, Pershing, Marion, Puller, Sherman, Grant, Chenault, or ANY of our battlefield-successful military leaders.

First clue: Why do they put tracks on tanks if those same tanks are going to have to travel by, and get ambushed on - roads?

Violates military principle : Never follow anticipated lines of approach. (roads, trails, passes, bridges)

We didn't and do not follow the first absolute principle of warfare - and so we will never win.

We COULD win, and do so quickly, with very few troops, but it would be very unpopular.

Every soldier at some point asks himself if what he's doing is making a difference. Every soldier at some point concludes 'hell no.' And later concludes, 'hell yes.'

Both answers are correct.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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I read this post the other day and one thing came to my mind, you're weren't going to get a lot of stars and flags (not that that was why you posted). I think the message that comes across so well in your post, is why people don't want to respond. Noboby wants to believe it's all for nothing, and when confronted with the reality of the situation, it's easier to ignore.

I thank you for your service, and your insights



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


My dad was a Vietnam vet, I never understood when I was younger why he did not ever talk about it. I thought "Hell, if I was in a warzone like that I would be bragging to everyone I knew about it." I didnt understand until I got older why he never wanted to talk about it around anyone other than some of his old army buddies that would stop by from time to time over the years.

Its not something someone who has never been there can easily grasp. I was in the Army 8 years as a 19K, I was deployed to the former Yugoslavia and to eastern Afghanistan. No amount of mental or physical preparation can ever compare to having to shoot people and get shot at. I've never felt such intense fear in my life on those occasions when firefights happened.

I ETS got back home and was a raging alcoholic/drug abuser for about 3 years. I almost killed myself. I had survivors guilt bad because 3 of my good friends were lost over there. You don't know why they were taken and you were not. You keep thinking, Why the hell did better guys than me not come back and my sorry ass did? I don't know how my wife put up with me during this time. I finally heard god/yahweh/the universe whatever you want to call him tell me one night to either continue on this path and die, or find a way to stop being guilty. I went to the VA to maybe try and get some counseling. They acted like I was normal. There was nothing wrong with me. It was all in my head. (technically it was, but you know what I mean). They put me on anti-anxiety to sleep and anti-depressants to help with mood swings. I swear the meds made me more suicidal than the drinking did. I quit taking them and said to hell with the VA. Its hard as hell get monetary compensation outta them for PTSD because you can't physically prove it. So now, I just smoke some to help me sleep at night. I still get bad nightmares and night sweats. But I'm not killing myself with alcohol and drugs.

The dudes I work with now play Call of Duty like fanatics. They keep begging me to play online with them because they keep saying (and this is really funny/ignorant) that I should have the highest kill counts on the teams because I used to be in the Army. Like we were over there having thumb wars or something. I love video games, but I refuse to play it with em. Oh, and to all the people who are reading this who are not prior service........Never ask someone you meet that tells you they were in Iraq, afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, or any war zone. Never ask right off the bat if they had to kill anyone. Or how many ragheads they had to kill. People are asses like that. If you think about it, its really a rude ass question and makes them feel uncomfortable.

I'm not religious but I am spiritual. I pray everyday for you, me and all the other troops that will bear the real cost of this war for years to come.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier78
 


Yes, asking how many ragheads they had to kill would be what? Insensative.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by YouDeserveToKnow
In your mind and in those that also blindly follow orders, what are you actually fighting for? How does the typical jar-head justify a military presence in Iraq? "They killed my friends" doesn't really constitute a valid reason. I take my hat off to the civilians of iraq who aren't standing for their families being blown to smithereens, would you not want to exact revenge if some foreign body entered your country and murdered countless civilians? I know i sure as hell would, and you're lying if you say otherwise. I'm sick of people justifying the killing of innocents.

We all know this is an illegal war and you'll never be considered a hero. You're damn right this war isn't winnable, that was NEVER the agenda.




Imagine will you the pain of these children and their families. Lives snuffed out before they were even given the chance to experience life. Put ourselves in your boots? but yourself in the boots of THESE PEOPLE!
edit on 24-1-2011 by YouDeserveToKnow because:

edit on 24-1-2011 by YouDeserveToKnow because: removal of profanity


First off, its not "blindly" following orders. Its either follow orders or be tried for insubordination and go to Ft. Leavenworth. Recruiters are taught in recruiting school to promise the moon. Whatever it takes to get that monthly quota filled. And they target minorities, people in poverty, and high school dropouts. People that are considered the "dregs" of society. "choice" is a luxury civilians might enjoy, but not soldiers. You basically sell yourself into slavery when you take that oath. But most recruits are too young and dumb (or just dumb) to realize its slavery at first.

And second off, you're right, "they killed my friends" is not a valid reason. But you're saying "they killed my family" is. And thats what we are. I used to say theres no black, whites, hispanics, nothing like that in the Army. We're all green. All the same color. I'd die for any of those guys, just as I would for my own mother, father, sister. just like I knew they would for me. So get off your high horse.

And also, "hero" is a word the media and the politicians use to try and make it sound like some noble cause is being fought. I bet you would be hard pressed to find a veteran who describes himself this way.
edit on 24-1-2011 by ghostsoldier78 because: Had to add a sentence



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by StlSteve
 


Well I call it just plain bad manners/rudeness. But yeah I'd say insensitive fits too.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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Well if you all notice rom history, nobody wins a war. Sometimes the winner will become the looser. The bible says only one war was faught with god on mans side. All other wars are illegal in gods eyes and there is nener a winner.
How can a country who spends what all the rest of the world [ USA] does in arms, loose the korean,viet-nam, iraq and [loosing the afghanistan] wars??? simple , it must not have been blessed by GOD. In fact just because of our agression and illegal war acts god is giving a dose of whip ass to america right now. As well as any country who supports death as a way of life.
People are so easy to fool even when history is always right there in fron of their noses



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 

I need some specific scriptures on those.

You said it, now provide the scriptures.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by itsawild1
Well if you all notice rom history, nobody wins a war. Sometimes the winner will become the looser. The bible says only one war was faught with god on mans side. All other wars are illegal in gods eyes and there is nener a winner.
How can a country who spends what all the rest of the world [ USA] does in arms, loose the korean,viet-nam, iraq and [loosing the afghanistan] wars??? simple , it must not have been blessed by GOD. In fact just because of our agression and illegal war acts god is giving a dose of whip ass to america right now. As well as any country who supports death as a way of life.
People are so easy to fool even when history is always right there in fron of their noses


So you're saying God not only takes a personal interest in our wars among other day to day activities, but that he picks a side and blesses it? So what history books are these that tell what side God was on? "Winning" these wars like vietnam, korea, etc. was never an objective. Define the so called winning conditions. Maybe you should look up what the military industrial complex is, and perhaps you should learn some real history and not blame it on Gods will like most ignoramus religious nuts.




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