Originally posted by Truth1000
The purpose of this thread was to discuss the Dulce Canyon facilities. I did that, I believe, in a professional manner, in spite of attempts to derail the thread with extraneous material, that in the most part is not only immaterial, but also inaccurate.

The are people who wish to discuss "Atlantis" (not referring to the STS orbiter), "Grays vs other aliens" and so forth. They can do so to their heart's content. I just wish for people, and there are people on this site with advanced training, who actually KNOW and were TRAINED about physics, aeronautics, optics, quantum theory, superconductors, who understand Bernouli's principle and equation, etc., etc.

There are REAL conspiracies that need to be revealed and discussed, that has affected our daily lives. This is not just from the American standpoint, but from other groups all over this world. What I see as the biggest threats to the common citizen of the world is not exotic, but rather more mundane. Our food is at stake, so I wrote a thread on the control of seed sources and related chemical that are PROPRIETARY, yet could determine nearly our total food sources twenty years from now. Some of the human genome findings are being kept under wraps because of their profound implications. With findings related to Metabolic Syndrome alone should be scaring people tremendously. Just this week a report was released that now 1 in 10 adults worldwide are classified as obese. With an understanding of Metabolic Syndrome, that, plus the fact that 1 in 4 American adults over age 40 are obese, then consider that 20 percent of our teenagers are seriously overweight and you can see the epidemic that is occurring. A medical study a few months ago stated that the current generation between 20 and 40 will, on the average, expect a SHORTER lifespan than their parents because their obesity is so severe, so early in life, that many of them won't reach age 65! While there are definite reasons for pessimism, there are brilliant scientists that are seeing through the problems to find new and amazing ways to solve problems most people don't even realize exist.

While I was part of the U.S. military and NASA, I dealt with amazing topics discussed by even more amazing people. These things may not be as "sexy" or as exciting as the many and varied topics discussed, but surely someone else is concerned about these issues!

This thread merely sought to eliminate all the crap about this facility, but hardly anyone is willing to accept ANY explanation they don't like. Is this a site merely meant to argue, or to learn, because sometimes you CANNOT have it both ways. Many years ago I realized that I learn more by listening to experts, rather than ridiculing them.

Originally posted by Truth1000

Area 51 is WAY overblown. White Sands, Sandia National Laboratories, etc., are greatly under-valued by the average citizen. Then there are the "cutting edge" facilities that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
I have a question for Truth.

To what end?

Since you are an "insider" who sees things from a different point of view. What is the purpose of all this top secret stuff? The general explanation given seems to be that someone, either government types or others, are spending trillions and trillions of dollars trying to come up with new ways to murder people. It seems that a bullet, or poison, or machete will no longer suffice. Or that these same said folks are spending the trillions on trying to stop someone from being murdered for their stuff - wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to share?

For the life of my I can't understand the process here. Billions starve, and are enslaved to simply fuel a secret cadre of bases, scientists, and support staff who are doing things that seem designed to more effectively kill said slaves at some point. The slaves are controlled, they can be killed by conventional bombs, in fact, the trillions spent on this type of to secret action seems to have lead us to a very, very conventional war in Iraq - with more loss of life, more destruction (DU Bombs etc) then ever before but all done with guns, bullets, bombs, soldiers and the same mayhem we saw in the last 50 wars. So the effort seems not to produce weapons actually use on us slaves, but for some other reason - to what end?

We hear of antigravity planes - but we fly in planes largely built decades ago, with designs from even longer ago and the time it takes to build planes suggests that we'll never see anything different in our lifetimes. Industry lets out a new music player or a marginally faster computer every year, while we hear that these bases and the folks working their are making things that would blow our mind - if only they ever let them out. Since it is VERY clear none of it will ever be used for the slaves, what is the point? To what end?

The effort, the money, the systems of control you describe, the elaborate mechanisms of science all seemed to be for a reason - no? What is the reason? Given that the effort is not for the masses, for your family or mine, for your friends or mine, not for me or you, who is it for? Most of the people on the planet live in poverty. There are only 4, FOUR, countries not drowning in debt - much of that debt created by your systems. The planet is a polluted mess in many places, not getting better but worse. A silly guesstimate would suggest that these programs you support have consumed trillions and trillions, a gazillion man hours, untold volumes of energy (non-renewable and other) and have done nothing to mitigate the planetary troubles - right now a man just died of cancer, a disease you will not doubt attest has a cure in your inner circle. To what end was all of this effort as it is clearly, very clearly, not for the betterment of mankind as mankind could use all that fruit you have produced now? In fact, we could have used that fruit long ago - to keep us from winding up here, but it is clearly being generated for some other purpose.

If we assume for a minute that there are about 250 cia created terrorist around the world. If we assume the Russians have zero interest in waring with us (many have pointed out that they shared information during the faux cold war), and no one else really wants to kill the US just for fun, as all wars are most debt collection actions with a charade of some sort justifying it: religion, type of governance or resource excuse. This would tell us that the enemies are made up to justify your system's budgets? The routine goes: don't feed your neighbor, hoard your food, keep him angry, then get your other neighbors to give you money to build guns to protect you and them. If only you shared your food there would be no need for any of it, but those damn neighbors won't give you money to build the guns unless they feel threatened. So you provoke your sworn enemy neighbor once a month to get the money to build the guns. Only in the top secret world, you never use the guns, let alone use them - but you are building something.

So, to what end?

Originally posted by Loopdaloop

Originally posted by Truth1000

Area 51 is WAY overblown. White Sands, Sandia National Laboratories, etc., are greatly under-valued by the average citizen. Then there are the "cutting edge" facilities that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Are you saying that white sands and sandia national laboratories should be more of interest to the 'average citizen?' also you said that sites are for specific things and mentioned cape canavral? RE: Space?

This is part of my personal frustration with many on this site. There are too many people who have EXTREME opinions on topics they completely fail to grasp. Then, if you try to enlighten them, while some are very grateful, others bitterly criticize anything felt to be derogatory to their pre-established opinions.