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Hello, I am back to explain a bit more about the Dulce Canyon facilities

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posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 02:44 PM
reply to post by Truth1000

It looks like they did make it public according to a story in the NY Times

and then the NY times gave another source of information here: (further down in the same article)

"The new Roswell report, titled 'Case Closed,' was written by Capt. James McAndrew, an intelligence officer assigned to the Secretary of the Air Force's Declassification and Review Team. Its 231 pages are designed to go beyond the 1994 report by revealing more about Federal work in the desert and examining what apparently inspired sightings of not only alien artifacts but of the extraterrestrials themselves."

and proof of both reports being available for sale to the general public here:

and of course on amazon, ebay, etc.

Still lots of questions by many researchers over the years who are finding and analyzing these reports and finding problems with same.

Back to Dulce. You indicated basically nothing at this location which would interest UFO researchers in your opinion, and questioning why there has not been more attention being paid to White Sands, Sandia, etc. which are obviously much larger.

"Area 51 is WAY overblown. White Sands, Sandia National Laboratories, etc., are greatly under-valued by the average citizen. Then there are the "cutting edge" facilities that hardly anyone has ever heard of."

Would you care to elaborate on that or possibly suggest more avenues for research?

edit on 31-1-2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:56 PM
First, since the USAF had released the report earlier, it being on the NASA site does make it routine.

Second, when Operation PAPER CLIP gathered Nazi scientists from their "sonderburos" at the end of WW II. Most everyone knows that Werner von Braun and his team were taken to White Sands to gather their data and begin to resume their research. With that true, doesn't it logically follow that many other research projects were taken to White Sands, to continue their research programs? And what is one of the cities eastward from White Sands? Roswell. When von Braun's group were taken from White Sands to their own private party, that was at the Redstone Arsenal, in Alabama. The famous Redstone rocket was named after that facility by von Braun. BUT, why were ROCKET scientists moved from a great big open desert to a place like Northern Alabama, when that placed them much more obviously into a populated area?

Answer some of these questions and you might start making some progress.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:56 PM
I am curious about how you came across the greater bulk of your material, including historical issues. I don't want to get into trouble for mentioning certain printed material I may have ordered today, but I'm having a hard time getting from a situation where an individual such as yourself may have been exposed to a few things that were somewhat unusual to the point where you have a well-rounded and essentially complete theory of life, the universe, and everything. (The answer being 42, of course.)

If I can use an analogy, it's as if you said, "Wow, that's a pretty cool airplane. I've never seen that model before!" to, "The Knights Templar found the Jerusalem Treasure and secreted it away to the Roslyn Chapel where King Phillip couldn't get to it, and then they supported Hitler to keep the Commies from taking over Germany. And that's why there are secrets today."

It's the Big Leap I'm having a problem with.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 08:44 PM
reply to post by schuyler

Books can be great tools for learning. Truth1000 is obviously a knowledgeable guy. I know the one I just read was very enlightening on how the U.G. works...... now if I can just find a book explaining the whole E.B.E. situation in detail, that would be

edit on 31-1-2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Truth1000
When von Braun's group were taken from White Sands to their own private party, that was at the Redstone Arsenal, in Alabama. The famous Redstone rocket was named after that facility by von Braun. BUT, why were ROCKET scientists moved from a great big open desert to a place like Northern Alabama, when that placed them much more obviously into a populated area?

Answer some of these questions and you might start making some progress.

Ok, I've done a bit of reading & so far some of the reasons for moving to Redstone include.

Easier access to Cape Canaveral, more electricity available & a possible link to the heavy water plant at the Alabama Ordnance Works?

It seems the more I read the more I find topics discussed in this thread appear to be connected, or am I way off?

Off topic, Truth, can you U2U me regarding purchasing your book from the UK? I can't find your thread about the book, thanks.

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:15 AM
reply to post by Truth1000

Hi Truth1000,I've read the whole of your thread and all the posts , and what I read is that your conveying to us is we are all looking in the wrong places for the wrong things! Please tell us if I'm going down the wrong path here? Anyway in your lifes work what other tidbits can you throw out to us such as 'reverse engineering' or anything to do with Tesla,many thanks in advance

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:29 AM
reply to post by Truth1000

Hi,just one question to ask you that's been bothering me is that with your extensive medical knowledge,is the US carrying out work left off from the Nazi experiments from WW11 such as cold water emersion ,cloning etc and are you allowed to elaborate?

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 01:26 PM
As far as why I know so many different things, while in the military, I did not stay in medical offices in big military hospitals much. I had a line unit assignment in the U.S. Army right off the bat, and happened to demonstrate some "above average" capabilities. As I would perform one classified assignment, and did so well, that would lead to another classified operation. Because there were few physicians interesting these things, and willing to do what I was willing to do, I soon got tasked with a large number of highly varied missions. On each occasion, I met new and very interesting people. Since these were "old dogs" in many cases, I primarily listened to what they had to say. Later on, as my tasks became first covert, then highly covert, I was exposed to so many things I could have never anticipated. Some were really cool things that blew my mind. Some things and information I gained were not so cool, and disturbed me. However, I had the wisdom to keep my mouth shut about all incidences. When I then changed settings to the the Air Force assignment to the Cape, my prior classification ratings went with me, and I continued to be involved with even more tasks - from the USAF, NASA, and other agencies within the U.S. government. In a few of these areas, I later became the expert that taught the "newbies" the ropes. I became involved with tasks that were operated high enough within governmental elements that I will never be able to mention them as long as I live. Plus, while at the Cape, I actually met and became friends with some of the German "rocket scientists," who knew more than rocket science, and had also known many things their German fellow scientists had been working on during the war, where they went in the U.S. after PAPER CLIP, and some things that scared the bee-jee-bees out of me.

While I have typically tested very well on intelligence tests, intelligence does not impart knowledge. But if you gain enough experience, that can lead to an awful lot of knowledge.

Does this help?

As for the UK, I am afraid I know nothing of that, so I am of no help. Sorry.

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 02:00 PM
One element that I failed to mentioned was that I did spend several years(around seven actually) researching a non-specified document, and it is from that research other information was obtained. "Let him who hath an ear hear the words..."

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 02:10 PM
reply to post by Robfire

I would assume the "cold water immersion" you refer to is to obtain the "diving reflex" for induced bradycardia. Since it has been revealed publicly, the concept of slowing the metabolic rate during deep water dives, especially while filling the lungs with a liquid high-oxygen air substitute, has been a means for many years, decades really, of allowing highly trained dive teams to go where no dive teams could otherwise reach.

As far as other medical research topics, there were so many I would know of only a small portion, so that wouldn't be very helpful. While several of these would be of great interest to the people of this site, until I know that they have been declassified or discussed in pulic forums by others with official knowledge, I could not discuss those.

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 02:26 PM
A minor question. So you were in the Army then transferred to the Air Force. If you retired as a Major you must have had some significant enlisted time. Of course, you may have just quit before your 20. "In the zone" promotions would be a max of 10 years for O-4 and 16 for O-5, though a below the zone promotion could reduce this a bit. They don't happen very often and are only for O-4 thru O-6. I know the services treat M.D.'s a little differently, but 10 USC is a legal requirement.

Your pics show a youthful man maybe as much as 40 max. Of course, they could be older pictures, but they couldn't be too old because they depict Buzz Aldrin, who has to be at least 70 in his picture. So that's maybe 2000.

I'm trying to put this in context and am having some difficulty with time. Unless those paper clip guys were newly minted they had to have been born about 1910 or so. Braun was born in 1912, for example, so he was a very youthful 33 when the war ended. He got his PhD at age 22. He died in 1977 at age 65. He was a true Wunderkind; many of his fellow scientists were older.

So there had to have been a very narrow window of oppotunity for you to have interacted with these guys.

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 03:06 PM
reply to post by schuyler

I like your thought processes, because you are correctly questioning the timing.

The "younger" ones were born in the 1920s. Some were much older, but they had died off. There were only a few left when I started working with the space program in the 1980s. Only a couple still worked regularly, but others came in on a regular basis to consult. Plus, some of the Americans who started out with the Air Force, Army, Army Air Corps, etc., had retired from actice duty and come back as either workers with the contractors or in the role of DoD civilians. The "best times" to listen were when they would have a party after a launch, important project milestone, etc. Once they were with their friends, had a few beers in them, that's when they told their best stories.

posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 08:30 PM
reply to post by Truth1000

Does this help? In a word...Yes.

Truth, a little off topic, I had the pleasure of visiting the Apollo/Saturn V Center & also viewed Discovery on the pad for the last time.

It absolutely amazed me.

I remember standing there staring at the Saturn V & visualizing the vast amount of components working together to achieve the impossible, from concept to build it truly was an incredible project.

If the average person knew how much effort it took to get off the ground they'd have been stood there with me, quietly reflecting on all that hard work.

Sadly though, that day, I was the only one.

But I remember towards the end, knowing what I know about current & past manufacturing, the engineer in me couldn't help but wonder, there must be an easier way?

posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 10:03 AM
The hard part for me is knowing that all of the efforts, the risks, the triumphs, of the entire "shuttle age" will soon be history. When I first started work at KSC, they still had the gantry support structure for the Apollo-Soyuz mission. Then it just disappeared - sold for scrap metal. I would look at all of the old launch complexes and try to imagine what they were like when they were bustling, and were some of the most important efforts mankind had ever made. Now they are chunks of concrete baking in the Florida sun, small bits of metal protruding from where their launch structures had been cut down for scrap metal.

Then I would look at the shuttle program - launch complexes 39A and 39B, Launch Control Center, Orbiter Processing Facilities, the Mate-Demate Device, and of course the VAB, and try to imagine when it was all gone. Soon that vision will be realized. Like each of us, the shuttle had its day, then would have its demise. Sadly, that day will soon arrive, with just the April mission left.

It makes me sad.

posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 01:14 PM
I agree, but I remember, too, from 1957 on, and through others like Tom Wolfe, back to Glamorous Glennis. But as Beer says, from an engineering standpoint, there's got to be a better way, and if this thread is about anything, it is the suspicion that there is and that it has already been found and that it is completely operational. On another thread someone was discussing the Aurora Program and suggested the shuttles are as antiquated as a Model-T, that they were used for show.

Obviously we collectively do not know one way or another, and that is so frustrating, but the pieces don't add up well for me. I've heard everything from "we've got a replacement for the SR-71" to "We've been to Mars already." along with some very clear instances of nonsense, such as Project Serpo. Leaving that aside for the moment, just a couple of weeks ago we launched a Delta IV Heavy from Vandenberg with a NRO satellite aboard, It was a "big deal" because it was the first Heavy launched from that location. So was THAT for show, too, or it a matter of payload issues.

I mean, if we truly have operational advanced capabilities such as the rumored Aurora, then that leads to two questions. One, why is it secret? and two: What is it good for? Resupplying the ISS should not be a problem. Just send one of those suckers up there and say, "Hi guys. Time for a crew rotation!" Why bother with a very expensive Delta IV if you can throw a satellite in the trunk of a triangle and toss it into orbit? It just does not make sense to pretend we do not have those capabilities.

Now, we do have a problem in that we've kept it secret, so there's a face saving issue. I really can't see that as much of an issue either. We've unveiled secret stuff before, from the SR-71 to the F-117, the B-1 and B-2. I don't think the public would freak out if someone said, "Yup, here's the SR-74 and we've had this awhile because, you know, we were spying on Russia with it. It can do some cool stuff and has all new technology. And this is what some of you have mistaken for UFOs." You don't have to say you got the technology from aliens and you don't have to make everything public at once.

So to me the reasons for keeping this stuff under wraps are pretty flimsy. I really have a hard time applying the usual suspects of "greed, money, and power" to this. It does not translate well to luxury. After all, all we are talking about here is a means of conveyance. The companies involved are publicly traded and besides, I want Boeing to do well. The military people involved, even at the highest levels, are not billionaires. By and large they are dedicated people.

To go beyond this is pure speculation limited only by your imagination. Although there has been some nice discussion on this thread, about all I have out of it is to forget Dulce and look towards Sandia. And I'm left wondering:

What in Heaven's name is the big deal here?

posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 01:36 PM
To specifically answer the question about the Titan IV launch, that is a military necessity. Because of the land profile at Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral AFS, being at 24.45 degrees north, with the carolinas protruding into the potential flight path, the highest inclination launch from Florida is 57 degrees. Because of the land profile at Vandenburg AFB, they can launch into a true polar, or other inclination launches that simply cannot be done from Florida. For those who recall, the Titan IV pad now being used was originally started as a space shuttle launch pad. After Challenger, that plan was scrapped and all shuttle launches went from KSC.

The Soviets, at a much higher inclination from the equator, had no choice but to launch over land masses. Losing the "sling-shot" effect of a launch closer to the equator, that was why the Soviet launch vehicles had to be so massive. On the other hand, the European Space Agency set up their launch site very close to the equator, and their launch vehicles are even smaller than ours.

Neither NASA nor the DoD/USAF wanted the space shuttle congress shoved down their collective throats, so their were collateral space programs run be the DoD/USAF all along. In one of thise "hide in plain site" kind of things, for those who have read about such, the first re-usable spacecraft was not the shuttle, but the X-15. Because it could be carried to 50,000 feet plus, its rocket engines had a tremendous advantage over the space shuttle.

To put this into perspective, the disruption to the vehicle for Challenger occurred just over 56,000 feet. It had taken a massive launch weight to lift the Challenger, and its fuel, to that height. For the X-15, it could basically reach the same height without any expenditure of its own fuel. For that reason, it could be a fraction of the weight of the space shuttle, yet reach high enough into space that most of its pilots wore astronaut wings!

posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Truth1000
To specifically answer the question about the Titan IV launch, that is a military necessity. Because of the land profile at Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral AFS, being at 24.45 degrees north, with the carolinas protruding into the potential flight path,

Actually, I almost added that part in my post, but it kind of begs the question. Why couldn't they have thrown a satellite up there with an "alternative" conveyance. Surely it could be properly placed. So that would lead me to believe we do not have the capability to put a one ton satellite into orbit by any means other than a conventional rocket. But given what we are led to believe, that idea is contradictory, therefore I remain perplexed.

posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 02:02 PM
Common things occur commonly. It is only the extraordinary that requires the extraordinary, if you catch my drift.

I am not trying to provide superfulous pats on the back, but you tend to repeatedly show critical thinking. PROPS to you!!!

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 07:42 PM
reply to post by Truth1000

After reading this thread from first page to last, I am left with one question for you, truth. What is the point? You are no different than an enlisted member of the military. You offer nothing to this forum or this board in particular that couldn't be discussed in BTS, because you refuse to give up the ghost on classified technology, mind-blowing knowledge, and anything that could "get you in trouble". This may seem brattish, but outside of plugging your literary accomplishments, you aren't telling anyone anything they couldn't learn from a hard hour at work with Google. And please, that is not a call to hear of more "insider" space breast stories or tales of the effect of limited gravity on the heart.

I'm not attempting to flame you, troll you, or anything along those lines. This is simply a half-plea for you to clue us in to the mystery behind your crafty nods at the "things you have seen and know". Otherwise, I would like to cast my ballot to have this thread moved out of a sub-forum where people congregate to investigate and share to the general chit-chat forum.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 07:57 PM
reply to post by hungrydirt

Hello, hd.

Reading your post...I felt the need to jump in.

"BTS" (and I acknowledge your nod to the past) is, well....past. (Called "off-topic" now...)

Anyway, chimed in to disagree, with respect, about your assertions. I think this is the correct Forum, as I just re-read its title. So, going "off-topic" isn't the course yet, and naturally, that is not my (nor anyone but the Mods') judgement.

Trying to put myself in this OP's footsteps....(I can't, but having a STRONG basis in the field of aeronautics, myself, I can at least grasp on)....I suggest a continuing "reading between the lines".

Think of it as a "puzzle", if that helps (??)

edit on 3 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

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