New College Fraternity thread

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posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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I was initiated in 1998 and graduated in 2002. It was a great time. I miss it a lot. I'm thinking of making an alumni chapter with some of my boys from around the area. Hopefully it works out because it would be great to see those guys more often then we do.




posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:55 AM
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I was at a conference this last Spring. At one of the alumni sessions we spoke with the Executive Director and he was saying that a lot of the smaller fraternities are having a difficult time with recruitment and maintaining finances and he wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 or 3 mergers in the next 10 years. I was wondering what you thought about this and also which fraternities do you think will merge. For instance will smaller fraternities merge into each other, or will they find a large fraternity to be involved with. I think that would be an important decision for the small fraternities. I would hate to make that kind of decision.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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I would eventually like to be an advisor for my chapter. I think you have to be alum for 5 years before you can though, so I have a few to go
But I still see/talk to girls from the house almost every day, active & alum, they're my best friends
And I even love them enough to go by & help out during rush!!! LOL that says a lot though, sorority rush is nothing like what you guys have to do!



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by nikkerbokker
sorority rush is nothing like what you guys have to do!


What do you mean about the differences in rush (recruitment) of men and women?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:55 PM
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Hey dtd-
At my campus at least, sorority rush is much different than for the fraternities. Ours last 5 days, theirs usually lasts 4 tops. We have a strict schedule: every house has so many parties with a predetermined attendance list based on who they match up with every day. For the fraternities, guys just show up at whatever house they want whenever they want. Sororities can have one Bid Day, its an organizaed event. Guys can hand out bids after Day 3. We have to decorate our house (do you know how long it takes to fill 500 helium balloons, only to have to pop them and fill new ones the next day), have 8 hour rush practices for 2 weeks before school even starts learning our songs, what to wear (songs, outfits, themes are to be "patented" for each house by Panhellenic to ensure no house does the same thing), and for the newer girls, what we are "supposed/not supposed" to say. Panhellenic makes the rounds like crazy fining houses for rush infractions. If you do the same song as a house, infraction. If you serve drinks at a party when drinks aren't supposed to be served, its an infraction (so what if its summer in San Diego and 102 outside) If the girls are A MINUTE late out the door, infraction (all houses and Panhellenic have synchronized watches) of course the sororities all love to turn each other in for these things. Sororities and rushees have to have "silence" that is members can't talk to rushees/vice versa so as not to have an advatage/influence over them. Also we can't go to fraternity houses during silence. We can't talk to our Rho Chis or Panhellenic members, whether they live in the chapter house or not they have to live in a hotel for the week of rush. Plus let's not mention the extreme devestation of girls who fall in love with a house and get dropped. I don't think too many of your guys have to console a bawling freshmen because ABC didn't offer her a bid and that was her mom's house and the girls were so nice to her why didn't she get a bid etc etc think that times 50. By the way if we drop a legacy, somone whose mom, sister, etc was a Sigma Kappa, we have to call the member and tell them WHY we are dropping her daughter/sister/neice if we decide not to offer them a bid. Its national policy. Its hell for the rushees and even more exhausting for us. The fraternities get to have fun things like bouncy houses or bands/BBQs and they get food donated by local places, real fun and casual. And of course after the actual rush events are done for the day, they sneak their favorite potential new members off to see a stripper or to go drinking or whatever.
I was under the impression it was something similar to this at all campuses. I know sorority rush is pretty regulated at every campus. Any input?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:17 PM
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Our recruitment starts in the summer. We can have parties and such and can sign anyone after July 1st. There are no bid days because recruitment is 365. Your process doesn't sound like it gets the right girls in the right place. If you can't talk about your values, procedures, etc, how will the girl know she is the right fit for the sorority and vice versa. We explain to incoming freshman about our values, our founding, how things work in our fraternity. We talk to the parents and get them to understand what it's all about.

How do you choose which fraternity or sorority you want to be in in just a week? That sounds odd. It took me almost a semester to decide which one to join. But I'm glad I waited and felt my way through everything. The other chapters haze their members but I was lucky to cut through all the crap and notice that my (eventual) fraternity didn't haze.

I never understood why sororities did things that way. I guess while fraternities recruit members, sororities use RUSH potential members into joining, which is a term of historical relevance to Greek life back in the day.
I always thought that sororities would be more successful if they didn't alienate all the girls and recruited them like the men do. I remember one sorority had so many girls that their quota for Rush was 5 girls. The sorority should choose how many members they want not be told how many they can have, The freshman get relegated into either not joining a sorority or joining their second choice which sucks. Not only that but the girls not chosen (because the sorority was either full or because they had other picks before them) begin to regard the sororities as elitist and spend the rest of their time trying to make fun of sororities in general. It just makes a bad situation worse.

As for fraternities, if we went through that system, we wouldn't have any members. It's hard to get people to join mostly because the good members are the ones who don't want to be in a fraternity and the bad ones are the ones who do want to be in a fraternity. I was one of those who didn't want to join but after I understood it and got to know things I was more comfortable on choosing which to join. I remember one time the Greek advisor pushed to have a fraternity Rush. IFC put ads in the school paper spent tons of money putting flyers up all over the place and sending info to freshman not in fraternities. There was going to be a meeting to discuss things with them and then they would go on tours of each house. Afterward they would fill out a form saying which chapters they were interested in and this info would be sent to each chapter and they would recruit like normal. Do you know how many guys out of a school of 10,000 total students came to the informational meeting and went on a tour of the houses? 3...and man were they quality guys. We didn't go after any of them. I think only 1 signed a house.

But I guess each campus is different.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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I'm still interested in hearing what people think about the fraternity mergers. I don't know about a lot of the smaller fraternities, but I would like to hear what others know.



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Does anyone know anything about the Beta Theta Pi fraternity?



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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As far as mergers go I think that in the near future you will start to see smaller fraternities moving in that direction just to stay alive. They will be forced to merge because they simply cant afford to compete with the larger national fraternities. With rising insurance premiums, larger liability settlements, and stricter school requirements for membership, I think they will have little alternative to continue operations. With the NIC steadily going belly up the little guys will soon find themselves without the umbrella they are used to having. Just my .02



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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Sorry I've been gone for awhile...

About the mergers. I think its inevitable that they are going to happen. I think obviously, the Sig Eps, Pikes, TKEs, DKEs, Phi Delt, Delt, Phi Tau, SAE, Sig Chi, etc, the big ones won't be going anywhere.

Notice I didn't have ATO and some other large fraternities. Some large fraternities are having money problems on a chapter level. You may see a lot of chapter closings if the national fraternity can't get their chapters in order.

I think one of the first mergers you might see is in the agricultural based fraternities. They may merge with other ag fraternities or may just join a larger. The reason they may merge with a larger fraternity than with each other is because many of the ag fraternities have chapters all at the same schools where ag is a main department on campus. Some national fraternities do not expand to these schools because it's too risky. It's also possible that the ags may merge together and simply go fully into the social fraternity aspect of Greek Life.

Another you might see is the technichal fraternities for the same reasons as for the ag. I don't know a lot about these fraternities but I'm sure there are less chapters than in the ag.

If some of the true smaller social fraternities merge, it's more likely they will merge with each other. A large fraternity doesn't gain much by adding 30-70 chapters who may not last. Plus you always have the trouble of merging chapters (where there are two on campus). They almost always tend to go downhill after a merge.

Of course all of this is speculation since we have not had a significant merge between true national fraternities in almost 40 years. It will be exciting to see. I personally think that the fraternity scene has become a little over saturated with so many groups, but that is the true source of democracy on universities, they say.

Of course you have already heard my views on local fraternities and would hope these would contribute to the national scene. They have only caused this spur of merger talks. And co-eds, in a real sense are not true fraternities or sororities or whatever you would like to call them. They are simply service organizations.

It would be nice to see about 50 true national fraternities. Almost every school would be represented with chapters from these organizations.

I would say in ten years we will have 4 mergers. The ags, the techs, and possibly a religious merger, and one true social fraternity merger. I can't really say who it would be though. But you always have to take into account money.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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[edit on 20-7-2004 by numberII]



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by slickwilly95991
Sorry I've been gone for awhile...

About the mergers. I think its inevitable that they are going to happen. I think obviously, the Sig Eps, Pikes, TKEs, DKEs, Phi Delt, Delt, Phi Tau, SAE, Sig Chi, etc, the big ones won't be going anywhere.

Notice I didn't have ATO and some other large fraternities. Some large fraternities are having money problems on a chapter level. You may see a lot of chapter closings if the national fraternity can't get their chapters in order.

It would be nice to see about 50 true national fraternities. Almost every school would be represented with chapters from these organizations.

I would say in ten years we will have 4 mergers. The ags, the techs, and possibly a religious merger, and one true social fraternity merger. I can't really say who it would be though. But you always have to take into account money.


I'm interested about what you said with money issues fraternities are having. I guess when insurance rates increase every year and dues stay the same from anywhere from 2-5 years its going to create problems.

I noticed you mentioned ATO and thought about the ATO chapter at my school. They have like 15 members and I was talking to an alumni and he told me they owed something like $25,000. How can one chapter who can barely stay afloat ever pay off that debt? You would think the national office would just pull the charter since it will only get worse. Maybe there is some amount when they actually do it.

I think I agree with your thought about the mergers. It makes sense that the agricultural fraternities would start to fold first. I didn't know there was any technical fraternities.

Why would you only want 50 national fraternities? I agree that there shouldn't be any locals, but why only 50. It seems like ideas and values are constricted if there is only 50. But I guess that's just my opinion.

Is there anyone out there willing to admit their fraternity isn't doing so well and may have to merge? Sororities?



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by alias101
Does anyone know anything about the Beta Theta Pi fraternity?


I have edited this post and have taken down everything I explained concerning the Beta Theta Pi ritual. I edited it so the thread won't be taken down. I was unaware that you couldn't do it, I thought this was an open forum. Sorry, I didn't know they take threads down for something like this.

The ceremony is pretty bland and seems to have just been thrown together without much thought. They are a pretty early fraternity, 1830's or so, so maybe they didn't have much to go on. I was expecting something better, but what can you do.

[edit on 26-7-2004 by dtdfever1]



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 10:30 AM
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You will find that unfortunately many of the oldest and first GLO's have fallen by the wayside. Interestingly enough it wasnt until most GLO's had their ritual influenced by Masonic traditions that they actually started to pick up good steam. Most started with simple forms and actions but then you see an influx of MT and it blossoms to a very elaborate,beautiful, and powerful ceremony.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by alias101
Does anyone know anything about the Beta Theta Pi fraternity?



Not that I'm a Beta Theta Pi or anything, but this is the type of post that got our last forum shut down... DON'T POST SPECIFICS ABOUT ANY ORGANIZATION!!!
But if anyone wants to trade rituals, email me...

[edit on 11-15-2005 by Springer]



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Star_and_Crescent
You will find that unfortunately many of the oldest and first GLO's have fallen by the wayside. Interestingly enough it wasnt until most GLO's had their ritual influenced by Masonic traditions that they actually started to pick up good steam. Most started with simple forms and actions but then you see an influx of MT and it blossoms to a very elaborate,beautiful, and powerful ceremony.


S & C, how would I know if my fraternity ritual is from masonic beginnings? I don't know if the founders were masons.

I spoke about the Beta Theta Pi ritual which was an ealry fraternity, but even those who are newer, like 20th century, I've read a couple of them and they seem to convoluted. Too many symbolic references that don't add up and almost create an environment where things are pushed upon the initiate.

Just my opinion.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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If I knew who your group was I might could tell you just by the name. Other than that many fraternites can trace the lines of who worked on or inspired the work of their ritual. For instance Kappa Sigma received its ritual from a man named Stephen Alonzo Jackson who happened to be a Master Mason also. He drew upon the forms and ideals to create what is today our ritual. You will find through study that many fraternities have a similar form of ceremony they just put their own unique spin on the story according to their traditions. Hope that helps answer your question a little better.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 11:13 PM
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Thanks S & C, I found that one of the founder's was a mason.

Do you think that those fraternities who have a somewhat boring initiation ceremony, don't change it because of tradition? I guess since they don't have anything to compare it to (unless they trade rituals) they wouldn't know any better. But I would be interested if the topic ever came up. I know many fraternities have changed language that was no longer in style, why would it be so bad to change the design if it would make for a more momentus ceremony?

Of course it's up to them and maybe their fine with it. Just my own opinion.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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What happens when frats merge. Whose name do they take? Do they keep the same meaning or change stuff to fit what just happen? I wouldn't think a fraternity would merge since that would go against what the founders were for at the begining.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by qwerty99
What happens when frats merge.


Could work several ways, Theta Chi "merged" with Beta Kappa in the 1940's. In reality the 17 or so Beta Kappa chapters just became Theta Chi chapters, no change was made to the Theta Chi ritual, &ct. At several schools, chapters of both already existed and the Beta Kappa chapters either joined Theta Chi or became chapters of other fraternities (more common). More correct to say Theta Chi absorbed Beta Kappa.

In 1985 Phi Sigma Kappa with Phi Sigma Epsilon, this is the largest merger ever of two groups but I dont have any details. Group is still known as Phi Sigma Kappa.

If mergers happen it is likely it will be 2 smaller groups consolidating. Other option is to simply desolve an let the chapters become a chapter of whomever they wish. Some of the larger nationals would have too much overlap from campus to campus to take every chapter of a smaller group.

In the early 1900's many nationals grew rapidly be accepting locals as chapters, much different than the headquarters lead colonization efforts we see today.

At any rate, my personal opinion is that mergers may be more trouble than they are worth. Absorbed chapters would have a definite identity crisis and this would likekly be problematic.





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