New College Fraternity thread

Originally posted by Star_and_Crescent
I was a pledge for 9 mths when I came through. I would have been grateful for a 60 day pledge program. I think that the new 60 day program for KS will be great once all the chapters have done it a few semesters. I think that all fraternities will benefit from reduced pledge periods. The shorter time doesnt cheat chapters from learning about their members. It just means that they will actually have to get up off the couch and work at it. This will be a suprising concept for a few people, they will actually have to work at being members. I believe that it will go a long way towards eliminating hazing and helping to restore the name of fraternities across the nation.

We wil have to wait and see. We have done the 60 day program 3 times already and have liked it. What was the opinion at the West Coast Conference?

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
This must be a new fashion trend on the east coast, but many members from that area wore the strangest thing almost everyday. They would wear polo shirts that had stripes of some sort, none were solid. They would all wear the collars up, kind of like Elvis. Sometimes they would wear a tie while still wearing the collar up. It looked really bad.

The southern boys wore bow ties and I would prefer that to what the east coast boys wore.

Coors Field was cool. Not the nicest stadium I have been to, but at least Randy Johnson was pitching. He got his butt (you can't say @$$ I guess) handed to him, but oh well.

[edit on 8/5/04 by slickwilly95991]

SLick, While I was in Cinncinatti there were alot of guys from the bigger schools wearing there collars all up and so were a bunch of ladies in that area. I was told that it was a big european thing about a year to two years ago and now its catching on here.....it hasnt caught on in Georgia yet. It was funny the first group of guys we saw but after that it jsut looked stupid.

Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by Star_and_Crescent
Denver was great. Beautiful city. MMMMM...Coors....

The Conference went very well I thought. We got a great deal acomplished and I think everyone had a good time.

I didnt get to check out the game but I heard everyone had a good time. It was the first time I have ever seen mountains like that. Absolutely breathtaking. I wanna go back during the winter and hit a few of the slopes they looked great.

Did everyone's convention take place in Denver? I think I've heard 4 orgs had it there recently.

Maybe it has something to do with the mural at Denver International Airport. All the secret societies in the world were drawn there to do their dirty work.

Whats up with the mural at Denvers International Airport?

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
I'm still reading pledged and have gotten to the section about race and how in the south there hasn't been much integration of traditional sororities. At the convention I attended you could see the diversity in the west and northeast, but the south and southern midwest was still mainly white. I'm always curious what our southern brothers think when they attend a national conference and see such diversity.

Is there a lot of diversity in your organizations?

I attend a southern school in Ga. and there is not any integration here. I can not recall any blacks coming out for IFC rush, I do recall a white guy becoming a member of a black fraternity though on campus. We all interact togethor though at certain times throughout the year.

And for attending conventions and seeing Black members from other chapters, I have no problem with that. I have attended events though were it has caused problems with other chapters though. I think it all comes down to the Chapter and how everyone feels about it.

I have been getting way too many u2u's about my fraternal affiliation stemmed from the conventions in Denver. To my knowledge, there were 7 college social fraternities who had their (inter)national conventions in Denver. I have given my reasoning before for not disclosing my affiliation. I have ethical duties (to my fraternity and all others) which prevent me from disclosing my name and affiliation. My professional responsibilities (law-yes, we have an ethical code) collide with my academic desires, so "trading" rituals is unethical, but learning and studying rituals fulfills my value of continual learning. It's a double edge sword. I could face discipline from the profession and scorn from the fraternity community (the one not on these boards).

In conclusion, I am not aware of the same affiliation with any one else on this board, so everyone can stop asking. You can probably deduce by finding all the organizations who held conventions in Denver, then deduce that by those who held their's at the last week of July and take away any that are known on this board and you may be left with the organization.

Of course, I can say I am a member of Phi Alpha Delta...the law fraternity. The other can remain secret.

Originally posted by billybob1412

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
This must be a new fashion trend on the east coast, but many members from that area wore the strangest thing almost everyday. They would wear polo shirts that had stripes of some sort, none were solid. They would all wear the collars up, kind of like Elvis. Sometimes they would wear a tie while still wearing the collar up. It looked really bad.

The southern boys wore bow ties and I would prefer that to what the east coast boys wore.

Coors Field was cool. Not the nicest stadium I have been to, but at least Randy Johnson was pitching. He got his butt (you can't say @$$ I guess) handed to him, but oh well.

[edit on 8/5/04 by slickwilly95991]

SLick, While I was in Cinncinatti there were alot of guys from the bigger schools wearing there collars all up and so were a bunch of ladies in that area. I was told that it was a big european thing about a year to two years ago and now its catching on here.....it hasnt caught on in Georgia yet. It was funny the first group of guys we saw but after that it jsut looked stupid.

I hope it ends quickly because I think it looks ridiculous. Who would take that kind of fashion trend from Europe and think that it looks cool. Makes them look like pansies who SHOULD get their @$$ kicked. For crying out loud, the 80's were over 20 years ago. Miami Vice is not coming back for some time.

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
I have been getting way too many u2u's about my fraternal affiliation stemmed from the conventions in Denver. To my knowledge, there were 7 college social fraternities who had their (inter)national conventions in Denver. I have given my reasoning before for not disclosing my affiliation. I have ethical duties (to my fraternity and all others) which prevent me from disclosing my name and affiliation. My professional responsibilities (law-yes, we have an ethical code) collide with my academic desires, so "trading" rituals is unethical, but learning and studying rituals fulfills my value of continual learning. It's a double edge sword. I could face discipline from the profession and scorn from the fraternity community (the one not on these boards). .

Sorry Slick, I didn't mean to bust your balls. I (and I guess many others) were interested toi know that there were many conventions in Denver at the same time.

Originally posted by billybob1412


Whats up with the mural at Denvers International Airport?

I'm not for certain, you would have to look it up to be more precise but some say that there is something between the Denver airport and the new world order. Something to do with the design and underground bases and stuff.

There is a mural there that depicts a bunch of sadistic things (people dying, buildings burning down, creepy creatures in shadows where nothing but their eyes show, etc) I'm not sure how that relates to the new world order thing but I know it's there. I've seen it. They have made some changes to it. (like they repainted the burning buildings, after 9/11 I presume).

I just thought it was funny that we were all in Denver for fraternity conferences in the city believed to be the headquarters of the NWO and we are all members of supposed secret societies.

Im from a Kappa Sigma chapter in TX that is 95% Hispanic....although we arent the southern east coast, we are still the south....we actually have 1 black(carribean) member, and two white members. I wouldnt say that our membership or our actions are different than other brothers from other chapters...S&C and Chysoloras can vouch for that, as I spent some time with them during the west leadership conference. Its kinda funny, one of the other fraternities that recruits only white members(its a local, no one get crazy) call us "Kappa Spicks" , and make fun of how a Kappa Sig flag closely resembles a Mexican flag from far away. I dont think that race is as much factor as region is. A So-cal all white chapter would be very different than a all white southern chapter...

As for the 60 day pledge program, my university requires that no pledge program can go over 60 days. So as long as I have been a member, there has been that restriction...so it doesnt bother me. But personally I would not object to allowing chapters to construct their own pledge programs as long as they continue to build strong brothers. Now if there are numerous drop outs, and extreme alligations of hazing, the Brothers in Action 60 day program would be a reasonable solution.

And as for the popped collars, that was probably me wearing it too....and yes Richard and Robby, I was wearing a PINK shirt to Model Chapter...

AEKDB
Steve

batman,

I think it's great that your chapter can have so much diversity. You're right that in the West there is a lot more open mindedness concerning race. It kind of bothered me in the book "Pledged" that she called traditional fraternities and sororities as "historically white" organizations rather than traditional organizations. Some organizations have been around before the civil war and they may be considered "historically white", but a lot more have been formed in the 20th century and can't really be deemed historically white.

Originally posted by billybob1412

We wil have to wait and see. We have done the 60 day program 3 times already and have liked it. What was the opinion at the West Coast Conference?

I'm sure that 60 day or less would be best. It's clear that it's a better system than 12 or several months (9 months, wow! You have some determination S & C). I think soon chapters will break out of the shell and realize their wrongs and that you don't need to mentally screw around with your new members to get them to "earn their letters".

The 60 day setup would work fine as long as it ended after grades came out. That's the mistake I believe most chapter's I know of are making. They're initiating these guys who swear up and down they're making the grades, and then when the semester is up, they've got a 0.0. Which means two things, you can't trust them and they don't do their work, and those two characteristics can do alot of damage. So I think if you can hold of several weeks to start the pledging process, 60 days would be fine. But personally, I'd start the pledges in the first few weeks and initiate a week or so after finals... weed out the pledges who didn't meet the requirements. I wish my pledge class had to go for the whole semester... it would've gotten rid of a few guys who now don't do anything, plus I had a blast for those 10 weeks.

Soapbox time--if fraternity chapters would make the effort to really recruit good members, i.e. good students, records of leadership in high school or first year or so of college, proven work ethic from their jobs or volunteer activities, and if the actually worked with alumni to get recommendations (and if alums actually made them) then chapters wouldn't need to worry about a long process. They would know pretty well that they got the most kick-butt guys available and they could initiate almost right away. This is what all our founders and first members did, at least those groups founded in the early to mid-1800's....there was no "pledging."

Pledging was forced upon us when we gave up our rights to the colleges and they would not allow member to join when they arrived on campus. Schools have relented a bit but we have not given up the pledging system. Sure there is a lot more to learn now...more history, chapter operations, risk management etc. but why can�t we teach this after initiation. If our brothers are truly dedicated to the ideals of our fraternities they would gladly learn this stuff...even after initiation. Most members get lazy after they are "in."

I believe that we have given up selectivity and exclusivity (which should be based on merit not wealth or status) for size. Particularly on large campuses where size means more money for parties, etc. I'm the first guy to pull my hair out when I hear a crappy little chapter say...but we want quality when in fact they are the campus nerds and don't even make good grades, but perhaps bigger is not always better. I'd rather have every chapter in my organization have 25 or 30 guys who did well and you could be proud of both during school and as alumni. Would trump those 100 man houses where half the guys party themselves out of school but at least they're popular and have fun along the way.

In a nutshell--let�s get back to our earliest ideals, values and traditions. Sorry for ranting...


[edit on 10-8-2004 by CarltonDoorman]

That was not a rant Carlton, that was the damn truth. I agree with everything that you said. We should be getting back to the founding ideals. A large majority of chapters think recruitment only applies to incoming freshman, but the best qualified crop are the upperclassmen who have already proved themselves.

Those guys are in honor societies, student government, doing the good internships, are the good athletes, and they are right in front of our eyes. Some chapters are afraid to recruit those guys because they are the same age or older and wouldn't partake in the hazing that chapters do. Doesn't the merit these men have proven, not only to you, but the university as well, justify "earning their letters"? I think so.

The point about the alumni is also an excellent point. The alumni must get more involved. If they don't have the money, they should try to mentor an undergrad, if they don't have the time, they should give money, they should all make an attempt to find future members and stay involved in the fraternity. I think that once a member initiates and is "in", as Carlton put it, don't connect anymore with the brotherhood. And I believe it's because they are no longer being taught the importance of brotherhood. They should be taught how to be an alumnus member and what they can do to be better individuals.

The fraternities should try to communicate more with the universities to come to an understanding. Most colleges do not release information about incoming freshman. Perhaps if the college promoted Greek life more than they could come up with something where the incoming freshman who are interested could release info about themselves. Their bio, interests, honors, and high school grades (if they have permission).

Continuing member education does not exist in most chapters and it should.

Originally posted by 71Vegas
The 60 day setup would work fine as long as it ended after grades came out. That's the mistake I believe most chapter's I know of are making. They're initiating these guys who swear up and down they're making the grades, and then when the semester is up, they've got a 0.0. Which means two things, you can't trust them and they don't do their work, and those two characteristics can do alot of damage.

You can still hold initiation before final grades are handed out and still have a grade requirement. Here's the plan.

You select a cut off date when grades will be checked. Say it's the monday before initiation. Pair up each new member with a reliable active member and send them to each professor for a grade check. With the active member present, the new member is not going to be able to cheat. If the professor cannot make a honest estimate of grade, then the active member can attest to it, and the grade does not count for averaging. You gave the example where you asked a new member how they were doing and they said great and then returned a 0.0. You can't fake it when you got it in writing from the professors. If they go around with an active and each teacher gives them an F, they don't initiate.

All the grades are then averaged out as normal (Usually by the academic chair of the chapter). You can still use the same requirement say of a 2.75. If the new member is above 2.75 then they initiate. If the new member is at say 2.5-2.74, then the academic committee can get together and decide whether, under the circumstances, the new member should be able to initiate. Factors can include the type of classes taken, any upcoming assignments or extra credit being done, whether the new member has been improving as of late, etc. A majority of fraternities allow for such a process when their required gpa is greater than the national fraternity requirement. And for those chapters who have the minimum gpa requirement the same as the national fraternity constitution (There's probably not a lot of chapters who have them that low) they can petition the Executive Academic chair of the National Fraternity to see if they can initiate and more times than none, they allow it. Those under 2.5 do not initiate.

You initiate those who are eligible.

Every chapter has a gpa each member must keep in order to stay active. If not, they must be suspended or put on social probation, academic probation, etc. (For some reason, this gpa is always lower than the initiation gpa requirement, but that's another discussion. But I would say it should be the same for initiation.)

If the those initiated members, when final grades are released, do not have the initiation required gpa, then they are sanctioned by the chapter as stated above and return to active status only after raising their gpa above the requirement.

It's pretty simple. Usually, being initiated and tasting the benefits of being a member will get those on the bubble from stepping up. Because they don't want to lose the treasure they now possess and they do not want to be embarassed by having to go on probation and be excluded from things.

I'm not for certain, but this may be what the sororities do and they do not have as much problems as those who pledge long periods.






[edit on 8/11/04 by slickwilly95991]

Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
I have been getting way too many u2u's about my fraternal affiliation stemmed from the conventions in Denver. To my knowledge, there were 7 college social fraternities who had their (inter)national conventions in Denver. I have given my reasoning before for not disclosing my affiliation. I have ethical duties (to my fraternity and all others) which prevent me from disclosing my name and affiliation. My professional responsibilities (law-yes, we have an ethical code) collide with my academic desires, so "trading" rituals is unethical, but learning and studying rituals fulfills my value of continual learning. It's a double edge sword. I could face discipline from the profession and scorn from the fraternity community (the one not on these boards). .

Sorry Slick, I didn't mean to bust your balls. I (and I guess many others) were interested toi know that there were many conventions in Denver at the same time.

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to sound harsh or like I was pissed or anything. I was just saying what I had to say. I'm not bent out of shape or anything. I just hope I gave you a justifiable answer to your inquiry.

Now, back to discussing. And if anyone has Phi Kappa Psi ritual, let me know.

It's been awhile since Nikki's been on here, but maybe she can answer how sororities usually handle the grades issue when they are dealing with initiation. I know every sorority has a short pledge period and initiates before the end of the first semester so I was just curious. Is grades a huge problem and what process do sororities usually take.


NIKKI WHERE ARE YOU!!!!

Originally posted by 71Vegas
The 60 day setup would work fine as long as it ended after grades came out. That's the mistake I believe most chapter's I know of are making. They're initiating these guys who swear up and down they're making the grades, and then when the semester is up, they've got a 0.0. Which means two things, you can't trust them and they don't do their work, and those two characteristics can do alot of damage. So I think if you can hold of several weeks to start the pledging process, 60 days would be fine. But personally, I'd start the pledges in the first few weeks and initiate a week or so after finals... weed out the pledges who didn't meet the requirements. I wish my pledge class had to go for the whole semester... it would've gotten rid of a few guys who now don't do anything, plus I had a blast for those 10 weeks.

Well I believe that if you are recruiting guys who lie to you about your grades, and all of a sudden right after initiation their grades drop so that they have a 0.0 at the end the semester that they problem might lay within your recruitment also. You cant' just get a 0.0 GPA, you have to work for that. We have grade reports and mandatory study hours for Brothers and Pledges. Have your scholarship chair do some work and stay on the pledges about their grades. The grades issue was a big deal this past summer in Cinn. but I dont think its the real issue. I think that the larger schools want that longer pledge period, want that more time to mess with the pledges heads. Maybe they feel that by shortening the pledge period it will make them look weaker and that they will just let anyone in compared to the other Fraternities on campus. I don't know. I think the whole sudden worries about grades can be fixed but it starts with the chapter.

We know you wore the pink shirt. We laughed, we cried, we pointed at you and snickered all the way out of the room.

Billybob, what do you think of my proposal concerning initiating new members before getting the final semester grades from the university?

Going back to the plan and discussion, there are some schools that are so persistent with privacy rights that they do not disclose grades to fraternities even though the members would give permission. In those instances, those chapters usually do something similar to my plan in order to get the grades needed to initiate. In order to continue active status, members must bring their final grade report to the academic director of the chapter to make sure they are over the gpa requirement to remain active.

So, the chapters (and the active brothers) need to get up and work on getting the info from their pledges in order to see whether they can initiate early in their first semester.