Reason for all the early sunrises in northern hemisphere

Originally posted by gringoboy
Infact to say that it is not a insult to the inhabitants,look at these then,does that look like a mirage.This lady has captured just how much sunlight ,beautiful iI must say,don`t insult ,Look,see for yourself
norlight.wordpress.com...

edit on 24-1-2011 by gringoboy because: (no reason given)

How exactly would you determine if it's a mirage or not if the effect is known to make the sun appear "in his full round-nesse" and causes you to see "the sunne shine cleare" by two weeks early? The only way to know for sure is to observe the sun from a non-polar location and measure to see if it's where it should be.

reply to post by ngchunter


Its okay its the sun reflecting of a frozen lake,really ,Look,amazing the sun not below the horizon as it should be.
poleshift.ning.com...

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Its okay its the sun reflecting of a frozen lake,really ,Look,amazing the sun not below the horizon as it should be.

I guess you still don't understand. A novaya zemlya sunrise can be indistinguishable from a real sunrise. How exactly is it that you think the sun's full disc can be seen above the horizon during this phenomenon and NOT reflect off a lake? It's atmospheric refraction, not magic. Every sunrise is seen due to refraction; the sun's true position is ALWAYS below the horizon, it's just more refracted than normal during Novaya Zemlya.

reply to post by ngchunter

I am sorry but I agree with gringoboy, this is nothing like a mirage! I have seen loads of photos of the Norway early sunrise which runs from late November to usually 15th January but it was the 13th this year. You cannot deny this is the real sun and not an illusion???

reply to post by ngchunter


Your now saying the sun does`nt really rise on the horizon....mmmm,well what can I say.
You tell me this one says its due to methane release,or ice crystals acting like a mirror ,any more pseudo answers,I know its the great big mirror in the sky.
climatide.wgbh.org...
OOPPPPs...methane would kill wildlife,would it not if its this refraction your talking about,.in the link above.Considering nothing can theoretically go faster than the speed of light then seeing the full sun only means one thing,its there,not a mirage.
From the article in the link above......................

(THE SCIENTISTS ARE LOOKING FOR A QUASI SOLUTION)
However there are other explanations. Accuweather proposed an unusual concentration of methane in the atmosphere may have changed the index of refraction of the atmosphere at let the Sun be visible a couple of days early. I find this implausible as the amount of methane needed to do this would be huge! Volcanic eruptions can release enough pollutants into the atmosphere to give colorful sunsets, but even they do not change the atmosphere enough to affect the time of sunsets

Come on wheres the debate refraction because of METHANE,is that a slip of someones tongue !

Originally posted by kalenga
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I am sorry but I agree with gringoboy, this is nothing like a mirage! I have seen loads of photos of the Norway early sunrise which runs from late November to usually 15th January but it was the 13th this year. You cannot deny this is the real sun and not an illusion???

What makes you think that an abnormally refracted sun isn't real? Every single sunrise you've ever seen is only above the horizon due to refraction. This kind of "mirage" is not about making something appear that doesn't really exist, it IS the sun, it's just that the sun's image is displaced. By de Veer's observations it can appear just like any other sunrise and end as a regular sunset. I don't know why people can't seem to understand this, but there is no denying that the sun's true position relative to the earth and stars is not abnormal.

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Your now saying the sun does`nt really rise on the horizon....

Every sunrise you've ever seen was due to refraction; the sun's true position was below the horizon until after the sun appeared above the horizon and that's a fact. At the horizon normal refraction is half a degree, the diameter of the sun. This decreases with apparent altitude which is why sunsets and sunrises appear "squashed." Astronomy 101. That doesn't mean the sun doesn't really rise, it means you MUST account for atmospheric refraction.

reply to post by ngchunter


The light eminating from the sun is ahead of the earth,simple,call it refraction,whatever you want,its ahead of the earth ih space.I saying no more its there.

Originally posted by gringoboy
The light eminating from the sun is ahead of the earth,simple,call it refraction,whatever you want,its ahead of the earth ih space.I saying no more its there.

It's a localized effect though; when you take abnormal refraction out of the equation the sun shows up where it's supposed to (indeed my scope automatically calculates for the normal amount of refraction expected). It's not a global anomaly.

reply to post by ngchunter


We need someone to varify if its getting darker earlier than normal in the south pole,does that make sense,anybody outthere in the southpole continent tell me of the suns going down sooner ?Only problem is its up all day,so it can`t be varified,do you get it now,the south pole is in its summer time,constant sunshine,the northpole was in perpetual darkness ,but is not ahead of time,no more dis info agents ,please its there.

All I can say is . I live in Manchester , UK and the sun is rising at setting at it's normal time . Strange how it can be different elsewhere .

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


I know,its because the north pole goes into perpetual darkness(winter) and the southpole goes into perpetual light as its summer there.The only way to varify this is what has been posted.The sun came up earlier than it should.
The theory sun gets ahead of earth and rises early in northern sky as south pole is in total daylight summer
www.youtube.com...
Note there could be a astronomical reason or methane gas release light refraction,Quasi answers
www.disclose.tv...

poleshift.ning.com...
and is stated could be due to methane gas release?
climatide.wgbh.org...
Its here its understandable ,and its true,not a mirage,and not the melting or sinking of the northern hemisphere.
Anyone else !or shall we wait for the first nightfall on the south pole and see if its ahead by a day !
watch for this date 22 march south pole ,if its true total darkness south pole link:
www.timeanddate.com...
Get it now !only thing is by then the sun will have riden the wave and won`t be detected,wait and see ,may surprise.sorry march.
To deep to grasp,by the time the sunsets in the southpoles its 2 months after the early sunrise in the north,hence it will ,or may have oscillated back,but something has tugged on our sun.

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by ngchunter

 

no more dis info agents ,please its there.

edit on 24-1-2011 by gringoboy because: (no reason given)

I'm not a disinfo agent and I've already verified the sun is where it should be in the sky; you font need to be at the south pole to measure its position telescopically. I understand that you think this is reflective of a real change that affects the sun's position in the sky worldwide and would thus affect its position as seen from the south pole in the opposite manner, but I've already found that it is not a global effect or real change.

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by gandalphthegrey
Its here its understandable ,and its true,not a mirage,

You've proven no such thing; a Novaya Zemlya effect sunrise can look like a normal sunrise, complete with full daylight. It IS the sun, just refracted higher by the atmosphere in that area.

reply to post by ngchunter


Not in the sky,and you keep on going on about refracting,the sun is not constant in the centre and does move through space ,but its light has got ahead of earth in space,meaning as stated .The word refraction is a very illusionary word as light bends,so in your scenario ,suddenly the earths mass gravity has accelerated bringing the solar light to earth early by refraction,thats impossible.The sun is stronger and emits light at the speed of light,ergo if its light appears above the horizon in the north pole before its due date,then as stated.Do not continue it is obvious.Since scientifically it is stated that the only other possible explanation is a increase in methane gas,which is ulikely,or is it, I can`t watch all the sea and cracks in the earth to see if bubbles of methane are erupting from the sea can you.
climatide.wgbh.org...
Refraction is to do with mirrors or atmospheric phenomena,I do not think light refraction can account for the suns early visibilty.There is not a mirror behing the sun or in the sky that would reflect the whole sun above the horizon.

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Not in the sky,and you keep on going on about refracting,the sun is not constant in the centre and does move through space ,but its light has got ahead of earth in space,meaning as stated .

I have to say it sounds like there's a bit of a language barrier here, but the sun is right where it should be, the effect seen is not global, its light has not "got ahead of earth in space."

The word refraction is a very illusionary word as light bends,so in your scenario ,suddenly the earths mass gravity has accelerated bringing the solar light to earth early by refraction,thats impossible.

You're putting words in my mouth, that is not what I said at all. Atmospheric refraction has nothing to do with earth's gravity. Every sunrise you've ever seen is an "illusion" by your definition though since even normal atmospheric refraction causes the sun to appear above the horizon when geometrically it's actually still below the horizon.

"On the horizon itself refraction is about 34′, just slightly greater than the apparent diameter of the Sun. Therefore if it appears that the setting sun is just above the horizon, in reality it has already set."

en.wikipedia.org...

Since scientifically it is stated that the only other possible explanation is a increase in methane gas,which is ulikely,or is it, I can`t watch all the sea and cracks in the earth to see if bubbles of methane are erupting from the sea can you.

Appeal to authority. It's funny how you appeal to authority on one hand to try to force a strawman argument on me rather than debate what I actually said, but on the other hand you yourself reject that authority's explanation. Talk about having it both ways. Interestingly, even that explanation still reduces to a change in atmospheric refraction, they just disagree on what is causing that change in refraction.

reply to post by ngchunter

I do not believe the explanations,and thats ,that.Mirrors,hall of mirrors reflecting the sun,what telescope on the brain.Note the word "Ripples" in your link en.wikipedia.org... .There are no prisms,or mirrors or lenses in the sky to accomadate for this happening.Keep a lid on it all you want
People wake up,were all going to the rock concert in the sky at some point,anyway,just when and all this is weird enough.
peace

Atmospheric refraction is the deviation of light or other electromagnetic wave from a straight line as it passes through the atmosphere due to the variation in air density as a function of altitude. Atmospheric refraction near the ground produces mirages and can make distant objects appear to shimmer or ripple, elevated or lowered, stretched or shortened with no mirage involved. The term also applies to the refraction of sound.

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I do not believe the explanations,and thats ,that.

That's not rational, but ok.

Mirrors,hall of mirrors reflecting the sun,what telescope on the brain.

Sounds like an argument from incredulity.

There are no prisms,or mirrors or lenses in the sky to accomadate for this happening.Keep a lid on it all you want

I'm not "keeping a lid" on anything. Atmospheric refraction is quite real and the determining factor in the timing of every sunrise and sunset you've ever seen. If you want to live in denial of that fact that is your choice.

Anyone can see the effect atmospheric refraction has in the fact that the sun is visible for about 6 minutes more than 12 hours as seen from the equator on an equinox day, yet the solar day (the time between 2 successive crosses of the local meridian by the sun) is 24 hours. That is because atmospheric refraction makes the sun rise a few minutes earlier and set a few minutes later than it would if the atmospheric refraction didn't exist and the sun's position in the sky was determined purely by its actual geometry relative to the observer.

Originally posted by gringoboy
Note the word "Ripples" in your link en.wikipedia.org... .

So what? Refraction by the atmosphere is indeed the cause for poor astronomical seeing, commonly called rippling when applied to terrestrial images. You can see that in a regular sunrise too, including the one I filmed and showed you. What does that have to do with anything though?

Atmospheric refraction is the deviation of light or other electromagnetic wave from a straight line as it passes through the atmosphere due to the variation in air density as a function of altitude. Atmospheric refraction near the ground produces mirages and can make distant objects appear to shimmer or ripple, elevated or lowered, stretched or shortened with no mirage involved. The term also applies to the refraction of sound.

reply to post by rebeldog
I "Think",that nights seem brighter from particles suspended in the atmosphere,maybe water vapor,maybe dust.

As far as the sun rising earlier,I have noticed this,but we are moving toward springtime,that's normal.

I would guess that in the extreme northern hemisphere,any change would be more obvious.

I do know,that those who think they know,don't know.

Nobody lives long enough to put it all together.

Most science is really no more than theory and faith.