Humans are naturally plant-eaters

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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


Can't see any "evidence" from you either, chum.

You could live of clay for a day, what's your point? Try living off raw vegetables for 60 days and see how "nutritious" they are. Fruit is one thing, but veg is another. And you can live of raw meat quite happily as it happens. You can digest raw meat, you can't digest raw veg.




posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


He still did it.

Also before we invented fire, we, in fact, ate raw meat. Raw meat, and more importantly, bone core, is what allowed man to get a big brain. The energy was all there. Now granted when we spread out we found other sources, such as soy and what not. But the fact remains. We are evolved to eat anything that we need. Now I'm all for localisms and environmental conservatism. And I'm afraid the only way to do that is to eat what the locals eat. And where I live, that's meat. When i go to China, I will Eat soy instead. When i go to Siberia, I will eat baby seal instead. When I go to anywhere, I will eat what the people eat. Because they know what's good and bad. Not some stuck up vegan half a world away.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

What flawed logic! You assume because someone eats meat, they won't drink milk or esat eggs!


Assuming again I see. I'm not playing a "See who gets the most B12" game, I was simply stating I can easily get the equivalent amount of B12 that is in 4 sirloins. Not having to consume meat was just a bonus.


Originally posted by stumason
Also, that Soy milk you drink, processed crap. Not natural in the slightest and a modern invention that enables vegetenarianism, not proof we're naturally veggies.


Evolution, anyone?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
The amount of ignorance in this thread is unbelievable !

I've been a strict vegetarian for 7.5 years and I am completely healthy. In fact, I'm the healthiest I have ever been.

If humans were suppose to eat meat, then why do we have to cook it? Carnivores don't have to cook their meat.

Its obvious humans were meant to be vegetarian, and the only way to find out is to become one. You will quickly learn that it was the right thing to do as your health will actually improve.

And no, I don't need vitamins or supplements. It's very easy to get all the nutrients I need as a vegetarian. The BS that is wrote about vegetarians strangely originates from tyson and other companies, and you guys fall for it hook line and sinker. Makes me wonder what other BS you unquestionably believe.

I've been there, done the research, and became a vegetarian for close to a decade. Sorry, but I have more credentials than anyone in this thread and I call BS on all you.

Have fun with flesh rotting in your colon for months after you eat it, have more fun trying to argue it's the right way to go.
edit on 22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)


I'm not questioning this... I knew a guy who lived as total vegan for 15 years and was physically healthy, although not very fit and energetic. But relaxed and balanced.

To say that the nutrients contained in meat are necessary does not makes us less needy for vegetables, since they contain many vitamins, fibers and proteins you don't find in meat.

Anyone living in North America, Oceania or Western Europe has very good reasons to become vegan, and can sustain themselves this way with am informed diet, but that has to do with most meat and dairy products being toxic and way too fat.

But even if becoming a vegan will change things for YOU individually, this won't do much to help the larger context in itself, as people will keep on feeding from the meat and GMO industry by the tens, hundreds of millions. Just to try convincing people to change their consuming habits will not be radical enough to provoke a steering from the dominant system that leads most living beings (humans included) on the planet to the major catastrophe we begin to see now.

And I'm not taking about global warming, but massive die-offs of many species due to air/water pollution, food shortages, collapse of entire cereals crops and overall messing up with the natural balance which allows life to persist.

My contend about this thread is that veganism is a side issue, brought by some liberals as a central issue, while the central problem is the system itself, this broken civilization as a whole. It must be brought down so that we realign ourselves with a better way of living out of natural resources.

Humans have become dangerous parasites for the rest of the planet, but it's possible to go back to a relation with the environment that's more balanced. But the biggest obstacle to that is the INDUSTRY, and the big corporate profiteers who keep pushing it to catastrophic extents.

Veganism, in that context, is a form of self-blame, that keeps people from attacking the problem at its ROOTS.
edit on 22/1/11 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion

Originally posted by spookfish
reply to post by Vandalour
 


The reason these hominids are our ancestors and not our contemporaries is precisely because they were vegetarian. If we had remained vegetarian we would still be living in the trees. Meat was necessary for the explosion in our brainsize.


Our nearest ancestor the Neanderthals hominids were vegan, and NO they were not living on tree branches. They were very social beings, living in caves for the most part.

Also there are still humans living in trees today and there's nothing wrong with that... They don't have regular internet access and a shopping mall nearby, but I don't see how it makes them less "evolved".


Firstly Neanderthals were vegan? Wow that's news to me because until relatively recently the exact opposite was the widely held belief. So your entire snipe falls apart there but lets continue. www.bbc.co.uk...

I never said anyone was living in tree branches. You've added your own slant there. Read my words not what your perceive to be my words. "We would still be living in the trees" is a phrase in the English language which is a descriptive catch all term to refer to the ancient apes before they came down from the trees and took up living in the savanna. This is way way before Neanderthals. My apologies if English is not your first language and you have difficulty with this concept. I promise to try harder to make things simpler and clearer.

As for your pathetic snipe about evolution, get over yourself. Where in the above statement you quoted have I mentioned 'evolution'. where have I mentioned internet access and shopping malls. Where have I even intimated that certain tribes and cultures are less evolved because they choose to make their homes in trees. I live in a stone house, it's basically a man made cave with a defendable back and front access point. So what who cares?

I see a pattern here. you like to snipe even though you are wrong on the facts. There's a nasty streak in you isn't there.

The gist of my post as can easily be gleaned while reading it is that meat allowed our brainsize to increase as it did with all other descendants who were coming down from the trees to venture onto the savannah. Millions of years later a few hominid species had evolved and they were all mainly meat eaters. We just happened to get lucky and be the ones whose brainsize had increased the most, hence the other species are now dead.

Jeez what's your damage?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
Assuming again I see. I'm not playing a "See who gets the most B12" game, I was simply stating I can easily get the equivalent amount of B12 that is in 4 sirloins. Not having to consume meat was just a bonus.


I waqsn't assuming anything. You clearly stated "a meat eater would have to eat 4 sirloins", implying that "meat eaters" don't eat veg or eggs or other sources. We're omniverous, not carniverous.


Originally posted by The_Zomar
Evolution, anyone?


No, it's not evolution in the slightest.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
Perhaps instead of denying the value of meat, we should be encouraging the practice of a balanced diet.


Thank you!

As an ex health nut myself who used to work out on a regular basis who's life was bent on being "healthy", our bodies need a varied but balanced diet. Notice how many Vegans need to consume vitamin pills? That's because their bodies don't get it's recommended dietary needs through eating plants. Meaning that it's impossible for man to be "plant-eaters". Our ancestors would have perished from various deficiencies.

Besides, why do I have these neat canines if I wasn't meant to eat meat?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


I do not know his definition, only that he was in trouble because of the lack of B12. He might not eat eggs as that would be more omnivore than vegetarian. Perhaps eggs are vegetables to some vegetable people. There seem to be many versions of veg-something styles and I don't bother with definitions. Appparently a Mediterranean diet may be better than vege-something. Have a glass of Barberolo with some antepasto and relax.
As it is, I don't care if you eat cowpies, which are merely naturally processed vegetables. As has been posted previously, if you choose a veg-something lifestyle, you must be careful to get the things that you might miss by not being an omnivore.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by spookfish

Originally posted by Echtelion

Originally posted by spookfish
reply to post by Vandalour
 


The reason these hominids are our ancestors and not our contemporaries is precisely because they were vegetarian. If we had remained vegetarian we would still be living in the trees. Meat was necessary for the explosion in our brainsize.


Our nearest ancestor the Neanderthals hominids were vegan, and NO they were not living on tree branches. They were very social beings, living in caves for the most part.

Also there are still humans living in trees today and there's nothing wrong with that... They don't have regular internet access and a shopping mall nearby, but I don't see how it makes them less "evolved".


Firstly Neanderthals were vegan? Wow that's news to me because until relatively recently the exact opposite was the widely held belief. So your entire snipe falls apart there but lets continue. www.bbc.co.uk...

I never said anyone was living in tree branches. You've added your own slant there. Read my words not what your perceive to be my words. "We would still be living in the trees" is a phrase in the English language which is a descriptive catch all term to refer to the ancient apes before they came down from the trees and took up living in the savanna. This is way way before Neanderthals. My apologies if English is not your first language and you have difficulty with this concept. I promise to try harder to make things simpler and clearer.

As for your pathetic snipe about evolution, get over yourself. Where in the above statement you quoted have I mentioned 'evolution'. where have I mentioned internet access and shopping malls. Where have I even intimated that certain tribes and cultures are less evolved because they choose to make their homes in trees. I live in a stone house, it's basically a man made cave with a defendable back and front access point. So what who cares?

I see a pattern here. you like to snipe even though you are wrong on the facts. There's a nasty streak in you isn't there.

The gist of my post as can easily be gleaned while reading it is that meat allowed our brainsize to increase as it did with all other descendants who were coming down from the trees to venture onto the savannah. Millions of years later a few hominid species had evolved and they were all mainly meat eaters. We just happened to get lucky and be the ones whose brainsize had increased the most, hence the other species are now dead.

Jeez what's your damage?


Well I'll admit I've been wrong on that first part. After just a bit of web search, all seem to indicate tht Neanderthals were omnivorous, like the other advanced hominids. I got that idea from basic anthropology in public college... and they did teach a lot of fictions back them. But yes, it is science that meat-eating has got us into being more intelligent.

And just who is sniping? Accusing me of being "damaged" because of a widely-distributed misconception? Wow. YOU may be the one who is getting on the defensive.

Still, my point about Neanderthals not living in trees is correct, as hominids stopped doing that since at least, the early simianthropes like the australopitecus, the first known hominid to be able to walk long distances on two legs, due to them probably going in the savannah, as you say, to hunt down animals. Neanderthals were (relatively) advanced creatures who had some forms of culture and tech.
edit on 22/1/11 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Frontkjemper

As an ex health nut myself who used to work out on a regular basis who's life was bent on being "healthy", our bodies need a varied but balanced diet. Notice how many Vegans need to consume vitamin pills? That's because their bodies don't get it's recommended dietary needs through eating plants. Meaning that it's impossible for man to be "plant-eaters". Our ancestors would have perished from various deficiencies.

Besides, why do I have these neat canines if I wasn't meant to eat meat?


Omnivore - Vegetarian - Vegan

Omnivore and vegan diets are the extremes, while vegetarianism is the most balanced one can get.
And our teeth aren't nearly the same as carnivorous animals. Teeth adapt to what you consume over long periods of time and evolution. Our canines have decreased in size over time
edit on 22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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I am no scientist, nor a nutrition expert, but the link that you posted about the 57 health benefits from going vegan is very biased. First of all, the first section of benefits ALL result from eating a healthy, balanced diet. Reduced saturated fats, carbohydrates, fiber, antioxidants, vitamin C and E? They can all be attained from a balanced diet. Eating fish, poultry, and other lean meats can reduce saturated fat, carbohydrates and fiber can come from whole grains, and antioxidants, vitamin C and E can all be gained through certain fruits and vegetables. Furthermore, a person can reduce their risk of getting cancer by eating foods high in vitamin B17, such as apricots (with the seeds), apples (with the seeds), bitter almonds, lima beans, etc. In fact, many societies who had diets high in vitamin B17 had no cases of cancer exhibited, such as the Navajo Indians and the Hunzas.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Well said my friend.

I wonder how well he/she would be if they had been 100% veggie from birth. I'm sure there'd be some developmental price to pay without supplements.

One thing that people seem to ignore is that evolution isn't just some distant process from thousands of years ago. So, saying that we were meant to be veggy is just as dumb as saying we were meant to be 100% meat eaters. There was a time in the past millions of years back when we were veggies, but there was a time millions and millions of years further back that when we were fish eaters. Evolution is a moving feast.

In most places on Earth; if you were a veggie you would have difficulty obtaining a balanced diet just from local seasonal vegetables and fruit. You would need to import other foodstuffs from other places that would not have been available to early man. These people were able to obtain a more balanced diet by eating local seasonal veg along with a generous helping of local meat as well.

Who knows? If we survive a few more million years we may evolve to be 100% carnivore for a time. Seems to me that in the longer term if we wanted to continue to increase our brain size then eating meat is the easiest way to do it short of genetic modification, which itself will inevitably come some day. That's the moment we cease to be one species and eventually evolve into many different forms that may not even be able to mate with one another and produce young.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


Omnivore is an extreme?

Do you even know what it means?

Omnivore is as balanced as it gets, seeing as you can eat anything. Carnivore is probably the word you were looking for.

EDIT: The teeth thing has been covered. We have omnivore teeth, not carnivore, which are perfectly suited for a mixed diet of veg, fruit and meat.
edit on 22/1/11 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


You know I do have to ask you something just for the sake of your view. I cannot taste bitterness. It just so happens that most baddies, poisons, etc etc that you eat taste bitter, and in fact, bitterness is theorized to have evolved to warn against baddies for the body. So the thing is, I can and have downed a quarter gallon of milk after a day it's been out of the fridge, with the most effect being... ahem... bad gas. In fact, it seems that My body doesn't take kindly to a few materials and just rather than bother with them, presses the cancel order button and just gets rid of it as soon as possible... any way possible. needless to say it can sometimes get annoying when the more reactive materials are in normal every day items like a few cookie brands.

So my question is. Exactly what is this little fun mutation of mine? It seems my inability to taste bitterness, and therefore not ingest light-level poisons, is replaced with fast acting auto-rejection reactions. And the thing is, this does happen for bad things, like bad fish, etc etc. But it does not happen for very undercooked meat. Now that's just a few too many genes to be by chance. Far more likely it's a reactivation of a dead trait.

Anyway, what is your opinion? Clearly this trait exists. And it seems to be a method of still being able to eat things that don't taste good, but if they are not poisoned or ruined, can still be eaten.

As a side note, it seems the only chemical that does not get rejected, but rather, is a flat out poison, is aspartame. If it eat that stuff for more than a few weeks, I start getting twitched and verbal slurs, and it gets worse there after. Took a long time to recover from the first time they realized it and I'd been having it for a few months.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


Man cannot eat a mainly raw meat diet?

There are plenty of cases of feral children that have survived in the wild alone, or with packs of animals and all the ones I have seen were almost exclusively raw meat eaters. Some supplemented their diets at best with just seasonal berries. I think such children would have suffered worse fates if all they had to eat was local raw veg.

Anyway........
edit on 22-1-2011 by spookfish because: typo



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada have stated that at all stages of life, a properly planned vegetarian diet is "healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases". Large-scale studies have shown that mortality from ischaemic heart disease was 30% lower among vegetarian men and 20% lower among vegetarian women than in non-vegetarians. Necessary nutrients, proteins, and amino acids for the body's sustenance can be found in vegetables, grains, nuts, soymilk, eggs and dairy. Vegetarian diets offer lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals.
Vegetarians tend to have lower body mass index, lower levels of cholesterol, lower blood pressure, and less incidence of heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, renal disease, osteoporosis, dementias such as Alzheimer’s disease and other disorders.


Lower depression
Better mood
Less chance of cancer
Lower BMI
Lower cholesterol
Decreased risk of heart disease
Less chance of type 2 diabetes
Less renal disease
Less osteoporosis
Less dementia


humans are more anatomically similar to herbivores, with long intestinal tracts and blunt teeth, unlike other omnivores and carnivores




an estimated one-third to one-half of all chicken meat marketed in the United States is contaminated with salmonella

Still sure humans can eat raw meat?


Scientists begun to suspect that there is a similar connection between animal meat and human cancer, birth defects, mutations, and many other diseases in humans.

It's funny that as the demand for meat increases, so do the rates of cancer. People have the puzzle pieces but have yet to figure out they make a bigger picture.


Since the human body preserves B12 and reuses it without destroying the substance, clinical evidence of B12 deficiency is uncommon.[46][47] The body can preserve stores of the vitamin for up to 30 years without needing its supplies to be replenished.

B12 is a non-issue. Even so, it is still easy to obtain anyways.


The production of meat and animal products for mass consumption, especially through factory farming, is environmentally unsustainable. According to a 2006 United Nations initiative, the livestock industry is one of the largest contributors to environmental degradation worldwide, and modern practices of raising animals for food contributes on a "massive scale" to air and water pollution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity.

Let's blame climate change on idling cars and other ridiculous things instead.



animal agriculture is a large source of greenhouse gases and is responsible for 18% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalents. By comparison, all of the world's transportation (including all cars, trucks, buses, trains, ships, and planes) emits 13.5% of the CO2.

You read that right. Eating meat is more harmful to the environment than driving a gas guzzling hummer.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


Think you need to read a dictionary. you are getting your 'vores' in a twist.


Teeth adapt to what you consume over long periods of time and evolution. Our canines have decreased in size over time


Yes you are correct teeth adapt to what we consume over long periods of time. We first discovered cooked meat over 800,00 years ago from natural grass fires and the odd lightning strike on some herd animal. So since we began to control fire around 800,000 years ago we've been cooking. This has allowed our teeth to reduce in size because cooked meat or veg requires less chewing. This also had the added benefit that there was more room in our skulls for some further brain development.

It's all just common sense if you look at it logically rather than emotionally.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

As an ex health nut myself who used to work out on a regular basis who's life was bent on being "healthy", our bodies need a varied but balanced diet. Notice how many Vegans need to consume vitamin pills? That's because their bodies don't get it's recommended dietary needs through eating plants. Meaning that it's impossible for man to be "plant-eaters". Our ancestors would have perished from various deficiencies.

Besides, why do I have these neat canines if I wasn't meant to eat meat?


Omnivore - Vegetarian - Vegan

Omnivore and vegan diets are the extremes, while vegetarianism is the most balanced one can get.
And our teeth aren't nearly the same as carnivorous animals. Teeth adapt to what you consume over long periods of time and evolution. Our canines have decreased in size over time
edit on 22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)


Go look at the teeth of a herbivore and tell me that they look like a humans teeth, who according to you is also a herbivore. Also, you have your extremes messed up, its like this


100% Carnivore - Omnivore - Vegetarian

Vegetarianism is already an extreme, vegans are the extreme of the extreme.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Sounds genetic to me. Highschools usually perform an experiment of having the children taste a square of "PTC paper" which really is just a bitter piece of paper. The experiment is to see if you lack or possess the gene that allows you to taste bitterness. I just read that back in the day milk truck drivers were required to show that they can taste bitterness in order to drive a milk truck. If they could not taste bitterness, then they were not allowed the job.


In other words, it doesn't look like a position driving a milk truck is in your future.
edit on 22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


Do some research. Raw Paleo. Many people who come from a vegetarian or vegan (raw or not) background who have suffered various health problems have completely regained their true health from going on a diet focusing on mainly raw animal fats and proteins. I follow this diet myself and have done so for 2 months. Although it has not been very long, from the very first time I bit into raw animal flesh, I felt my health returning. I've been suffering from some very serious and chronic conditions for years. Going vegetarian and vegan worsened everything and I know realize the importance of true animal products in their natural state.

People have cured their skin problems, digestive disorders, bacterial infections, adrenal fatigue and a lot more through eating raw animal foods. Some people's lives have literally been saved, believe it or not.

I'm sorry you were taught to believe that eating raw animal foods is harmful to your health. People often also forget that the quality of what you are eating has a huge impact.

Scared of bacteria and parasites? If you get quality, grass-fed meats, you wouldn't need to worry. Sick animals = sick people. The bacteria present in healthy flesh is incredibly beneficial to us, even parasites can be. We are all made up of bacteria and we all have parasites. Some people are deficient in parasites and bacteria for living dangerously sterile lives. Many have had great results from "high meat", which is meat that can be kept out in the air for months. Sounds crazy? People have been saved by it. The last time I had food poisoning, vomited and/or got sick due to food was when I ate cooked food. Doesn't happen anymore.

edit on 22-1-2011 by SinkingSun because: (no reason given)




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