Humans are naturally plant-eaters

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Ciphor

 

Our bodies will tell us what were are and are not suppose to eat. Not any doctor or nutritionalist. (although numerous doctors do take my side) Our bodies have been telling us the answer over and over by showing us that vegetarians live longer.

I'm not telling you what to eat - your body is.

Nowhere did I say that all animals are suppose to be vegetarian. Thats not true.

Some grant us life - some grant us strength

Olympics and sports:

Vegan
Kenneth G. Williams (bodybuilder) 3rd place at 2004 Natural Olympia
Bill Mannetti (powerlifter) 1st place, Connecticut State Powerlifting Championship
Robert Cheeke (bodybuilder)
Joy Bush (powerlifter) 1st place, Connecticut State Powerlifting Championship
Jon Hinds (bodybuilder, personal trainer)
Charlie Abel (bodybuilder)
Mike Mahler (strength coach) ""Becoming a vegan had a profound effect on my training. … [M]y bench press excelled past 315 pounds...and I put on 10 pounds of lean muscle in a few months."
Mac Danzig (martial arts) MMA record 19-7-1 (as of 4-2010)
Tony Gonzalez (Atlanta Falcons tight end)
Scott Jurek (ultramarathoner) 7 consecutive wins at Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run, numerous other first place finishes and records
Tim VanOrden (runner) Numerous 1st place finishes
Ruth Heidrich, (triathlete and marathoner) More than 900 first-place trophies and set several performance records. Named One of the 10 Fittest Women in North America.
Dave Scott (triathlete) Six-time Ironman champion
Brendan Brazier (triathlete). Won the National 50km Ultra Marathon Championships
Carl Lewis (track) Numerous gold medals (2 as a vegan)
Salim Stoudamire (basketball). Atlanta Hawks
Christine Vardaros (cycling)

Vegetarian

Bill Pearl (bodybuilder) Mr. Universe (3 times), World's Best Built Man, Mr. America, Mr. California, numerous Halls of Fame
Roy Hilligenn (bodybuilder) Mr. South Africa (4x), Mr. America, Olympic lifter
Ricky Williams (football) Miami Dolphins

Claiming you are a "Lion" of a debater doesn't make you one. You need to back that up.

Next time you feel like insulting others to make a point, better hope I am not there to turn the table.

You are the only one insulting people here among other frustrated people addicted to meat.

I, unlike you, do not tell anyone what to do. I said what they will do, because I've come here for long enough and know most these mods well enough to know exactly how they respond to my laying into people. They have not banned or suspended me in 4 years and in the past just toss warnings, never directed at me.

A warning means "stop what you are doing". They are showing sympathy by not banning you outright.

And we already explained to you that vegetarians are more healthy primarily due to them as individuals being more health aware

That "health aware" part means choosing not to eat meat.

Are you denying that a vegetarian diet is most healthy for us?

edit on 29-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)

Don't tell me about what I meant. I know what I meant. No, being health aware means exercise and not over eating. I stated that. In the future please read my posts better and reply with something relevant. I simply cannot keep repeating this to you.

And I did not deny anything being most healthy for YOU. Again, and if you would focus when you read I would not be explaining this to you over and over again. I said in general a balanced diet is the best choice for anyone. The entire medical field supports me.

Nowhere did I say that all animals are suppose to be vegetarian. Thats not true.

Nowhere did I say you did. How foolish of you.

Our bodies will tell us what were are and are not suppose to eat. Not any doctor or nutritionalist. (although numerous doctors do take my side)

this is an outright lie as I have proven over and over. You do not have 1 creditable person who agrees with you. You need to prove that or stop saying it. You look a fool saying it over and over and never supporting it with a shred of anything.

You provided a list of olympic athletes who are vegan and vegetarian. Great. What is your point? Those are individuals with I'm sure superb health. They do not over eat, they exercise. This just gives further credence to what I say, it is a vegetarian LIFE STYLE (not diet) that leads to you generally having better health then the average person who eats meat but NOT a balanced diet or exercise.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


Beautiful. Thank you for that post. It shows the type of thinking my adversaries are using here.

If our bodies weren't designed to eat something, we wouldnt. For instance I cannot digest plastic, therefore my body is not designed to digest it.

We can digest cardboard. That means we are supposed to.

Also the insults prove everything I have been saying all along.

Face it - you guys lost. I win debates using science and fact. Not speculation, misguided thinking and insults. (that never works, by the way)

If you want the study that proves vegetarians live longer read the thread. I posted it here and I'm not going to do your research for you.

Originally posted by Ciphor
You do not have 1 creditable person who agrees with you.

Stop it. Just stop.

I'm done here. Me going any further would be wasting my time.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
-Naturally humans were suppose to only consume vegetables, nuts, grains, fruits, and insects. None of which needs to be cooked. All of which we can catch without tools.

This is where I think you are wrong. About a year ago I was visiting a village in Central America. I watched a seven year old boy walk into a shallow stream and after a short while he came out with three small fish and what looked like two shrimp. He walked to the comal where the mother was cooking tortillas and placed them there to cook.

This was a child and he had caught and was fixing to eat more than just insects. I've seen kids catch frogs and snakes and all other kind of small animals with nothing more than their bare hands. Add a pointed stick or a large rock and the amount of animals that can be taken as prey increases.

So I don't think man in his natural state is limited to just plants and insects.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Ciphor

 

Monkeys eat insects. As I have said several times.

And the ole' eye debate huh? That again?

Others have argued that predators have eyes on the front of their heads for binocular vision, while prey animals have eyes on the sides, indicating that we fall into the predator camp. This ignores the fact that the animals that we're most similar to -- the other primates -- have eyes on the front of their heads, and are almost exclusively vegetarian.

In any case we would need front facing vision to catch insects. The only "meat" we can catch without tools.

This is too easy. It's getting boring...

edit on 29-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)

and are almost exclusively vegetarian.

Almost. What do you call something that is almost vegetarian but not? Oh ya. An omnivore~

I never said we fall into a predator camp
I said we are an omnivore that is designed to eat anything it can get away with.

Stop lying and miss-quoting please.

And you didn't answer my question at all. Can you please show me an "HERBIVORE" with forward facing vision, or an OMNIVORE without it? Thank you. I look forward to you ignoring my entire post debunking yours and making up something else to change subject every post.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Gradius Maximus

 

Beautiful. Thank you for that post. It shows the type of thinking my adversaries are using here.

If our bodies weren't designed to eat something, we wouldnt. For instance I cannot digest plastic, therefore my body is not designed to digest it.

We can digest cardboard. That means we are supposed to.

Also the insults prove everything I have been saying all along.

Face it - you guys lost. I win debates using science and fact. Not speculation, misguided thinking and insults. (that never works, by the way)

If you want the study that proves vegetarians live longer read the thread. I posted it here and I'm not going to do your research for you.

Digesting cardboard...That doesnt make any sense at all, our stomach acid pulls it apart since its loose natural fibers, but im sure its not getting nutrition and its certainly not breaking down the glues unless they are also natural fibers.

You havent proven anything...You've simply shoveled more disinformation onto the heaving # pile of your viewpoint that nobody in THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY has ever done before until the industrial revolution which created the imbalances you are blaming the meat eaters for.

Perhaps you should thank rise of the meat eating society for allowing our infrastructure and systems to grow large enough for you to be able to sustain yourself in a vegetarian way, which is not at all doable in a natural system of human life.

I promise to live longer then you Vegetarian, your study and stance is biased and means nothing.

What do you call a vegetarian, who receives his foods from a society and people that consume the products he strictly forbids? Does that make him a hypocrite or just inconsiderate?

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by PoorFool

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by PoorFool

 

Meat addiction is extremely powerful.

Hence the hostility from pointing out how unhealthy it is...

Ever try to take a pipe from a crack head?

Most people are addicted to meat both physical and mentally.

You know that sedated feeling you get from eating lots of meat?

If you try to eat healthier you will find you can fill up on other food but still feel "hungry" for that sedation.

Listen, we don't need any more stupidity in this thread and silly unscientific claims such as "meat is addictive."

Meat is very addictive...

Hence this entire thread...

thank you mods

Great thread, shame its full of ignorance.

There is absolutely no reason why a person shouldn't be vegetarian, its the same old excuse every time "It tastes nice." That's just greed, okay so maybe humans are natural carnivores (which we're not btw, look at the way we chew, we chew like horses) that's still no reason to eat meat, every 3 seconds a child dies of starvation and you know why? because we feed our livestock enough food to feed 250,000,000 people. If we all just went vegetarian, global starvation would become a thing of the past and everyone would have plenty to eat

Meat eaters, ask yourself these questions

Do you want starving Africans to have plenty of food and water?

Do you want to lower your risk of bowel cancer and heart disease?

Do you want to help stop the destruction of the rain forest?

If yes, then go vegetarian or better yet, vegan

and if you still need more encouragement here is a list of 101 reasons to stop eating meat

www.energygrid.com...

Originally posted by Ciphor

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Ciphor

 

3. In the quote above I would like you to take note of the last two words. Forget about ethics...who needs 'em and forget about the ecology, we all know that is down the tubes already anyway so why start to consider IT now....the last two words are HEALTH CONCERNS.

People may want to argue the benefits of a meat free diet based on health concerns. Hello?

edit on 29-1-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)

HOW ABOUT QUOTING SO PEOPLE WHO DID NOT READ IT CAN KNOW THE CONTEXT

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

Your comments seem really out of place in context of what was said don't they? Amazing how you guys debate. Word twisting, no sources but say you linked sources, ignoring evidence, lying. Keep making a fool of yourself for all of ATS to see.

NO ONE IS ARGUING THE BENEFITS OF A VEGGIE DIET

THE TOPIC OF THREAD IS THE DEBATE "Humans are naturally plant-eaters" AND SUB TOPIC "A vegetarian diet is preferred to a BALANCED Diet"

I wonder if a lack of meat causes a lack of ability to focus on topics and interpret English.

edit on 29-1-2011 by Ciphor because: $

You ok babe? The quote was from your link. Don't you read this stuff before you thow it out there?

Originally posted by Ciphor
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

I have posted previously many alternative and even opposite viewpoints also from experts.

Liar. I looked and no you did not. Why resort to lying? I looked at all the links, every, last, one. And NONE where from creditable authors, Dr's, ANYONE with a degree.

Maybe I missed it.

so Again

and probably 10 more times after this

CAN YOU PLEASE LINK THIS?

(of course we know you cannot and will not, but to the rest of us watching you lie and make up excuses is mildly entertaining)

Let's see if you can find these...www.whale.to...

If the link doesn't work promise not to freak out.

Here is a quote..

"To say that humans have the anatomical structure of an omnivore is an egregiously inaccurate statement. The great taxonomist Carolus Linnaeus, (1707-1778), a Swedish naturalist and botanist who established the modern scientific method of classifying plants and animals, classified humans not as carnivores, not as omnivores, nor even as herbivores, but as frugivores. Linnaeus writes: “Man’s structure, internal and external compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables are his natural food.”

You are appearing, in my opinion...not only irrational but delusional as well.
["liar" "windbag" "shut-up"???]
I feel very sorry for you really. Such an ill mannered, ugly temperment, Do you credit your diet?
You should walk around with a blood pressure cuff on just to make sure you do not over heat!

I am not the one who said I will no longer continue the debate and yet here you are wasting your breath again. Not exactly truthful. How can we take your word on anything?

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus

Personally I dont know many barbarians or brutal senseless people, do you?

Only by assocciation.

And no, I did not question your intellect... you brought up something about possible diminished "intellect" of vegetarians. If I could lift the quote I would show you but this laptop is giving me a hard time, I can't even get spell check to work so maybe I am the dumb one anyway what I brought up was the feminization of males some believe is due to hormones injected in cattle.

PS Is it possible calling people derogatory names like "liar"and "windbag" or telling them to "shut up" is a manners and decorum faux pas?
I could be wrong. Judging by the tone and demeanor of some of the posts in this thread - it is becoming increasingly apparent - meat makes people nasty and mean. Not surprising, I guess this would naturally be a prerequisite for murdering dinner.

reply to post by rusethorcain


I have killed animals with my bear hands and eaten them hours later - It is a primal function of survival passed on by my ancestors unto me. When doing it, my vision goes red and It felt as if I was operating from a completely different part of the brain. We are not monkeys - we are something very different.

Its very easy to sit there and tell people what to do and how to fix the world and feed the people. With this logic why dont we stop having pets, and spend that money to feed the africans, we dont really need pets do we?

Eventually, the solution to the problem will present itself, and I will happily follow along with you. Ironically enough, many African tribes have never eaten a vegetable in their life, yet you think the method of saving them to to make the rest of us vegetarian? *Scratches his head*

We just consume too much, thats the bottom line...I dont need a 18 ounce porterhouse steak as a human being, I have just a little bit, and I know that it is essential to my well being as an omnivore, it is the simplest and most inexpensive way to have a healthy diet.

In order to live as a healthy vegetarian? Upper middle class and above need only apply. - Especially in the winter months when a red pepper costs 2 dollars.

I still think you are living in a fantasy world, when you think the world should be vegetarian overnight. It would take some massive restructuring and proper education to ensure that the people knew how to sustain themselves properly.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Ciphor
You do not have 1 creditable person who agrees with you.

Stop it. Just stop.

I'm done here. Me going any further would be wasting my time.

On the contrary, there are many people who agree with you.

You might expect they'd be the ones intriqued by the thread title and most often visiting to comment and communally share infomation.
Other folks contributing are here to disagree until they destroy the thread, everyone gives up and goes home... which I guess is their right - but to react as if personally attacked because some people, adverse to slaughter or for whatever reason, choose to eat primarily plants???
This is just ridiculous on so many levels.

Much of the information you've posted was helpful so it would be a shame for you quit. Maybe take a little break.

This'll help too ...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
You havent proven anything...You've simply shoveled more disinformation onto the heaving # pile of your viewpoint that nobody in THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY has ever done before until the industrial revolution which created the imbalances you are blaming the meat eaters for.

FAO estimated that livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions

Source


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c1773a82ef35.png[/atsimg]
Source

The graph above shows us that agriculture (farming for the cattle, deforestation for cattle farms, and the cattle themselves) when combined are a staggering amount of the gas created.

We can see that the great majority (80%) of the deforestation in the Amazon is for cattle ranching.
80% of Amazon deforestation stems from cattle ranching

That huge amount of global emissions caused by agriculture is just the tip of the iceberg. If you factor in the heating of agricultural buildings, the transportation hauling the animals around, transportation of feed, manure, and other agricultural goods it would make for a more truthful percentile, but I don't even need to go that far to prove this point.

So don't make out factory farming to be hardly responsible for greenhouse gases and carbon emissions.

Our energy sources will gradually become more and more "green" while there is nothing to help the agriculture department become green as it grows like a cancer feeding more and more gasses into the atmosphere and turning little boys into women.

The following link I give you out of sympathy.
Meat Addiction

All without obscenities and anger.

I believe the pure carnivore diet is the optimal diet for humans. The world problems are not because people eat meat, it's because of industrialization, overpopulation, and overt capitalism. Meat contains 100% what humans need to live and be of optimal health.

Originally posted by tom502
I believe the pure carnivore diet is the optimal diet for humans. The world problems are not because people eat meat, it's because of industrialization, overpopulation, and overt capitalism. Meat contains 100% what humans need to live and be of optimal health.

Vegetarians have proven to be able to live their entire lives on wholly a vegetarian diet and be of optimum health.

Meat eaters have no examples of a 100% meat diet. Often they will bring up the inuits whom have terrible health and shorter lifespans of their counterparts - whom also eats fruits and vegetables, just not nearly as much.

Cultures die off for a reason and I'll have to blame the Inuit's decline on ignorance.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus

I have killed animals with my bear hands and eaten them hours later - It is a primal function of survival passed on by my ancestors unto me. When doing it, my vision goes red and It felt as if I was operating from a completely different part of the brain. We are not monkeys - we are something very different.

Okey dokey. Thank you for sharing.
Not being inside the monkey's brain, you cannot say the monkey does not feel the same way, feel the same rage and yes this is a part of the primal brain.

If you will look at any evolutionary chart you will see man raising up from his animal origins and refining, evolving, elevating in stature and knowledge, skill and ability.

We move away from the primative and loose the tail...morphing into sentient beings, with a wider view, a greater appreciation for what is and a desire to preserve it. We are smarter than the animals in that we can plan ahead.
We have foresight. Animals do not have that ability. They act instinctively...lapsing into a state you so viscerally describe above. You allowed primal instinct to over ride intellect - Great in survival mode and you might need that outside of civilization....but mean while back at the ranch we are being human. Humane. Trying.

Yes indeed. We are certainly a different creature from the animals.

But the predetorial experiences and memories you describe do not prove that argument.
Conversely, it sucessfully states the case for why we are the same.