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Humans are naturally plant-eaters
page: 35share:
Originally posted by The_Zomar
As I've mentioned earlier in the thread (apparently you haven't read it) I said the Inuit are living in an un-natural location. AKA: humans aren't suppose to live in that area of the world. They don't HAVE to live off of animals. They could also practice a vegetarian diet by shipping in the food.
I think his point may have been that the Eskimos live just fine on a 100% meat diet.
Didn't you say...
Originally posted by The_Zomar
As far as I am aware you can't live on an all meat diet...
Unless of course you want to be riddled with disease and die early?edit on 28-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)
Ya, that was you. You said that. You do realize an all meat diet works just fine as long as you eat the right parts of an animal?
Sad... You really think steaks and processed food is natural? Cheeseburgers aren't harvested off cows, you know that right? Do you think when we cut a cow open that it's a bag full of ground beef?
There are brains, intestines, liver, bone marrow, bone, ligaments, fat, etc. I could go on.
You really think you are better then non-veggies don't you? That you are a better person, I detect that from you, that you have an ego about this and resentment towards the rest of us who don't share your view.
You don't need meat, you need tolerance and acceptance. 2 things you are desperately lacking.
EDIT: And you said it's bad because of lower life expectancy? So the vegetarian Indians with one of the lowest life expectancy are an exception to this right? Because they wont serve to help your opinion, we wont talk about the massively short life expectancy of the vegetarian country. Naw, don't remember that either, I'd hate for you to be open minded, that would destroy your whole persona you have built there that you know everything and are better then everyone else.
edit on 28-1-2011 by Ciphor because: to avoid making a new post to address constant bullcrap being spewed in every
post by someone
reply to post by Gradius Maximus
I can see you're not a mountaineer are you? Vegans can indeed climb mountains and indeed, a diet low in fat is best as fat is hard to digest (and therefor requires more energy). How much protein you need to eat is debatable since proteins can be build up from amino acids which can be found outside of protein. In either case, there are other, more easily digestible, sources of protein than meat.
Outfits such as Mountain Madness offer vegan menus for Everest trips: www.mountainmadness.com...
You might also be interested in reading about a group of Nepali women (Everest is partially in Nepal in case you don't know), have adopted a vegan diet for their tour of the tallest peaks on each continent: www.vegsource.com...
I can see you're not a mountaineer are you? Vegans can indeed climb mountains and indeed, a diet low in fat is best as fat is hard to digest (and therefor requires more energy). How much protein you need to eat is debatable since proteins can be build up from amino acids which can be found outside of protein. In either case, there are other, more easily digestible, sources of protein than meat.
Outfits such as Mountain Madness offer vegan menus for Everest trips: www.mountainmadness.com...
You might also be interested in reading about a group of Nepali women (Everest is partially in Nepal in case you don't know), have adopted a vegan diet for their tour of the tallest peaks on each continent: www.vegsource.com...
Many people live full healthy lives on an all meat diet. Not only do the Inuit peoples eat an all meat diet, many westerners too. There was an
explorer who went to the arctic and lived off all meat, he then went back to the states and conducted an all meat diet experiment, and was shown to be
great. I may have some details off, let me look for a link: OK, I'm not a Christian so the website name kinda turns me off, but the site as a whole
and the info here is great: www.biblelife.org... and mendosa.com... and
zeroinginonhealth.com... so there is much evidence to say man is a carnivore optimally and it's the best diet.
Originally posted by Ciphor
EDIT: And you said it's bad because of lower life expectancy? So the vegetarian Indians with one of the lowest life expectancy are an exception to this right? Because they wont serve to help your opinion, we wont talk about the massively short life expectancy of the vegetarian country. Naw, don't remember that either, I'd hate for you to be open minded, that would destroy your whole persona you have built there that you know everything and are better then everyone else.edit on 28-1-2011 by Ciphor because: to avoid making a new post to address constant bullcrap being spewed in every post by someone
India is only 40% vegeterian. India also has many shortfalls in sanitation, food supply, water supply, availability of medical treatment, etc. That is especially true for the impoverished classes, which coincidentally happen to be non-vegeterian.
Even so, according to the 2009 CIA world factbook, the world's average life expectancy is 66.57 years. In India, it is 69.89.
edit on 1/28/2011
by llempart because: type-o's
Originally posted by llempart
reply to post by Gradius Maximus
I can see you're not a mountaineer are you? Vegans can indeed climb mountains and indeed, a diet low in fat is best as fat is hard to digest (and therefor requires more energy). How much protein you need to eat is debatable since proteins can be build up from amino acids which can be found outside of protein. In either case, there are other, more easily digestible, sources of protein than meat.
Outfits such as Mountain Madness offer vegan menus for Everest trips: www.mountainmadness.com...
You might also be interested in reading about a group of Nepali women (Everest is partially in Nepal in case you don't know), have adopted a vegan diet for their tour of the tallest peaks on each continent: www.vegsource.com...
Not true. Stop pulling things out of your ass.
* Fats: Thermic effect of about 3%.
* Fibrous vegetables: Thermic effect of about 20%.
* Proteins: Thermic effect of about 30%.
Source: worldfitnessnetwork.com...
Fats require the LEAST amount of calories to be processed. This makes it a very efficient food for humans living the wild, which is the reason why native tribes prize fat so much (obviously not when you sit on your ass all day and is surrounded by food). If I was going to climb a mountain, I'd make sure to bring lots of pemmican with me, not canned peas.
This is what happens when you don't eat fat, only protein: en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 28-1-2011 by PoorFool
because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Ciphor
Originally posted by The_Zomar
Here ya go; a page from the Western Journal of Medicine
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Conclusion: Vegetarians live longer, have fewer diseases, and are less likely to be obese to get cancer.
That is a undeniable fact, and if you payed attention PAY ATTENTION: NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT. NO ONE
NO ONE
NONE OF US ARE DEBATING THAT.
Okay, now that is settled. A proper vegetarian diet is healthier. Proved.
Next topic: Are humans naturally plant eaters (vegetarians) AKA original topic of thread before I had to help a couple of you deny your own ignorance.
My stance?
Humans were naturally supposed to consume insects, fruits, and vegetables. A vegetarian diet + insects.
Canine debate:
Our so-called "canine teeth" are "canine" in name only. Other plant-eaters (like gorillas, horses, and hippos) have "canines", and chimps, who are almost exclusively vegan, have massive canines compared to ours.
Some other interesting points:
We sleep about the same amount of time as other herbivores, and less than carnivores and true omnivores.
Among animals, plant-eaters have the longest lifespans, and humans are certainly in that category (and yes, this was true even before modern medicine).
Our teeth, saliva, stomach acid, and intestines are most similar to other plant-eaters, and dissimilar to carnivores and true omnivores.
The animals most similar to us, the other primates, eat an almost exclusively vegan diet (and their main non-plant food often isn't meat, it's termites).
Our omnivorism means we're capable of eating meat (useful from a survival standpoint if that's all that's available), but our bodies aren't geared for it to be a normal, significant part of our diets.
Our hands were made to harvest plants, not rip through meat.
We sweat like herbivores instead of pant like carnivores.
The inuit and eskimos whom eat more meat than anyone on earth have also become the fattest and sickest.
We have long intestines built to effectively digest vegetable matter rather than meat. Take a look at a traditional omnivores intestines and you will see they are shorter.
The evidence greatly supports my claim and the OP is correct in that humans are naturally plant (and insect) eaters.
Humans haven't always ate meat either, that is a false claim.
The following link is a great read for everyone and it's funny because I see many of the silly arguments being made here struck down by medical doctors in this link.
Here is all the evidence you need.
Originally posted by tom502
Many people live full healthy lives on an all meat diet. Not only do the Inuit peoples eat an all meat diet, many westerners too. There was an explorer who went to the arctic and lived off all meat, he then went back to the states and conducted an all meat diet experiment, and was shown to be great. I may have some details off, let me look for a link: OK, I'm not a Christian so the website name kinda turns me off, but the site as a whole and the info here is great: www.biblelife.org... and mendosa.com... and zeroinginonhealth.com... so there is much evidence to say man is a carnivore optimally and it's the best diet.
The Inuit are among the sickest, fattest, and diseased people on earth
Again, I want everyone in this thread to read the following link. Just because it is at a vegetarian site doesn't mean squat. It uses sources from medical doctors and scientific studies:
Link
edit on 28-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)
reply to post by The_Zomar
You love picking and choosing which arguments you want to partake in, right?
You obviously didn't read the rest of Ciphors post.
All of the things you've quotes has been debunked in this thread already, but you fail to read once more.
Inuits are not unhealthy; where did you pull this claim from?
They are fat because they NEED fat to insulate their bodies. They have adapted to living in the cold. Being fat is not being unhealthy, not necessarily. They've only become sick when introduced to the Western diet.
Comparing the lifespan of humans to animals living the WILD, in constant DANGER, is yet another fallacy.
You love picking and choosing which arguments you want to partake in, right?
You obviously didn't read the rest of Ciphors post.
All of the things you've quotes has been debunked in this thread already, but you fail to read once more.
Inuits are not unhealthy; where did you pull this claim from?
They are fat because they NEED fat to insulate their bodies. They have adapted to living in the cold. Being fat is not being unhealthy, not necessarily. They've only become sick when introduced to the Western diet.
Comparing the lifespan of humans to animals living the WILD, in constant DANGER, is yet another fallacy.
edit on 28-1-2011 by PoorFool because:
(no reason given)
Originally posted by PoorFool
Not true. Stop pulling things out of your ass.
* Fats: Thermic effect of about 3%.
* Fibrous vegetables: Thermic effect of about 20%.
* Proteins: Thermic effect of about 30%.
Source: worldfitnessnetwork.com...
Fats require the LEAST amount of calories to be processed. This makes it a very efficient food for humans living the wild, which is the reason why native tribes prize fat so much (obviously not when you sit on your ass all day and is surrounded by food). If I was going to climb a mountain, I'd make sure to bring lots of pemmican with me, not canned peas.
This is what happens when you don't eat fat, only protein: en.wikipedia.org...edit on 28-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)
I did pull that out of my ass just like you pulled the "fact" that an attempt to climb everest as a vegan would certainly be fatal. I ask for forgiveness.
Fats however, can be saturated and unsaturated. The unsaturated kind which you can easily get out of nuts are healthier for you, are they not? I never said you don't need fats. You certainly do, just not necessarily in large quantities.
Originally posted by llempart
Originally posted by PoorFool
Not true. Stop pulling things out of your ass.
* Fats: Thermic effect of about 3%.
* Fibrous vegetables: Thermic effect of about 20%.
* Proteins: Thermic effect of about 30%.
Source: worldfitnessnetwork.com...
Fats require the LEAST amount of calories to be processed. This makes it a very efficient food for humans living the wild, which is the reason why native tribes prize fat so much (obviously not when you sit on your ass all day and is surrounded by food). If I was going to climb a mountain, I'd make sure to bring lots of pemmican with me, not canned peas.
This is what happens when you don't eat fat, only protein: en.wikipedia.org...edit on 28-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)
I did pull that out of my ass just like you pulled the "fact" that an attempt to climb everest as a vegan would certainly be fatal. I ask for forgiveness.
Fats however, can be saturated and unsaturated. The unsaturated kind which you can easily get out of nuts are healthier for you, are they not? I never said you don't need fats. You certainly do, just not necessarily in large quantities.
I never said anything about vegans and Everest, you are probably confusing me.
As for the saturated fats, once again...
"A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD."
www.ajcn.org...
Saturated fat is not the Devil... that is a myth.
Unsaturated fats are fine, but nuts and seeds contain too much polyunsaturated fats in the form of Omega 6. That is the real enemy as an inbalance of O3:O6 has been shown to cause all sorts of diseases.
edit on 28-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by PoorFool
reply to post by The_Zomar
Inuits are not unhealthy; where did you pull this claim from?
Not to say that they don't lead healthy lives, but as far as life expectancy goes, it is between 64 and 67 years for those Inuit living in Northern Canada, compared to 79.5 for the rest of the country.
reply to post by PoorFool
Inuits are fat because their bodies need protection from the cold?
Wow I didn't know evolution occurred in a matter of hundreds of years.
By the way, the inuits have heating in their homes, and climate controlled vehicles.
If you are going to get anyone to believe your false accusations you are going to have to come up with much stronger arguments.
Inuits are fat because their bodies need protection from the cold?
Wow I didn't know evolution occurred in a matter of hundreds of years.
By the way, the inuits have heating in their homes, and climate controlled vehicles.
If you are going to get anyone to believe your false accusations you are going to have to come up with much stronger arguments.
I do have a pro-meat view, but I think the worst foods/diet we have is the modern one with all the refined and processed foods. I think if a vegan ate
just natural veges, like I think what would be called a paleo-vegan then yes, I think that might be a healthy way. But every vegan website I read,
they always say you have to take vitamin supplements. Meat contains everything you need, and a vegan diet does not, from what I see. I still plan to
do the all meat(beef) diet, and I'll keep a record. I guess I should make a new thread when I begin, so not to just post it here, as it might get off
topic.
Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by PoorFool
Inuits are fat because their bodies need protection from the cold?
Wow I didn't know evolution occurred in a matter of hundreds of years.
By the way, the inuits have heating in their homes, and climate controlled vehicles.
If you are going to get anyone to believe your false accusations you are going to have to come up with much stronger arguments.
Yes, fat insulates the body from cold. Is that so hard to understand? Evolution in the small scale does happen from generation to generation.
I am not talking about westernized Inuits, FFS. Stop changing the subject.
Here is a nice little article on traditional Eskimos
wholehealthsource.blogspot.com...
Originally posted by tom502
I do have a pro-meat view, but I think the worst foods/diet we have is the modern one with all the refined and processed foods. I think if a vegan ate just natural veges, like I think what would be called a paleo-vegan then yes, I think that might be a healthy way. But every vegan website I read, they always say you have to take vitamin supplements. Meat contains everything you need, and a vegan diet does not, from what I see. I still plan to do the all meat(beef) diet, and I'll keep a record. I guess I should make a new thread when I begin, so not to just post it here, as it might get off topic.
The vitamins websites suggest are to counteract the sterility of todays grocery store food.
For example, vitamin B12. Some will argue meat has it and vegetables do not. Vegetables are washed so thoroughly that it eliminates the natural B12 on the outside of the vegetables. If you grow your own vegetables or buy fresh vegis you do not need to take vitamins.
Originally posted by PoorFool
Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by PoorFool
Inuits are fat because their bodies need protection from the cold?
Wow I didn't know evolution occurred in a matter of hundreds of years.
By the way, the inuits have heating in their homes, and climate controlled vehicles.
If you are going to get anyone to believe your false accusations you are going to have to come up with much stronger arguments.
Yes, fat insulates the body from cold. Is that so hard to understand? Evolution in the small scale does happen from generation to generation.
I am not talking about westernized Inuits, FFS. Stop changing the subject.
Here is a nice little article on traditional Eskimos
wholehealthsource.blogspot.com...
Your source is a blog, and in it, it states that they are free from chronic disease which is not the case in reality.
Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population.
1. Iburg KM, Bronnum-Hansen H, Bjerregaard P. Health expectancy in Greenland. Scand J Public Health 2001;29(1):5-12. Choinere R. Mortality among the Baffin Inuit in the mid-80s. Arctive Med Res 1992;51 (2):87-93.
reply to post by The_Zomar
Lol ya I'm done with you. You simply cannot read or comprehend what the other side of the debate is conveying to you, even when bolded and CAPPED you still fail to see main points and focus on non-issues GL in your life.
Lol ya I'm done with you. You simply cannot read or comprehend what the other side of the debate is conveying to you, even when bolded and CAPPED you still fail to see main points and focus on non-issues GL in your life.
And for everyone else, notice what he has done with the debate. He has moved it away from a discussion he could not win, the topic of the thread, and
is focus firing on an all meat diet?
If I were you and had more patients for his level of comprehension I would steer the debate back to what it is. Are we meant to be vegetarian, and is vegetarian MORE healthy then balanced diet (not unbalanced fast food diet which he will continue to reference in opposition)
Know however that due to his arrogance, and ego, he will never be humble enough to accept the facts presented and will ignore evidence while refusing to supply his own.
Also note that he is not capable of deciphering 2 separate concepts (the concept of vegetarians currently living longer because the individuals who are veggie, are more health aware and less lazy, and the concept of a healthy vegetarian diet [not a healthy vegetarian] is not preferred to a balanced diet) Some peoples brains just can't multitask and this confuses them, I tried a million ways to help him understand the difference between a healthy lifestyle and a healthy diet, but to no avail, maybe someone else will have better luck breaking through that wall.
Peace.
If I were you and had more patients for his level of comprehension I would steer the debate back to what it is. Are we meant to be vegetarian, and is vegetarian MORE healthy then balanced diet (not unbalanced fast food diet which he will continue to reference in opposition)
Know however that due to his arrogance, and ego, he will never be humble enough to accept the facts presented and will ignore evidence while refusing to supply his own.
Also note that he is not capable of deciphering 2 separate concepts (the concept of vegetarians currently living longer because the individuals who are veggie, are more health aware and less lazy, and the concept of a healthy vegetarian diet [not a healthy vegetarian] is not preferred to a balanced diet) Some peoples brains just can't multitask and this confuses them, I tried a million ways to help him understand the difference between a healthy lifestyle and a healthy diet, but to no avail, maybe someone else will have better luck breaking through that wall.
Peace.
edit on 28-1-2011 by Ciphor because: werd
Originally posted by Ciphor
And for everyone else, notice what he has done with the debate. He has moved it away from a discussion he could not win, the topic of the thread, and is focus firing on an all meat diet?
Originally posted by The_Zomar
Next topic: Are humans naturally plant eaters (vegetarians) AKA original topic of thread before I had to help a couple of you deny your own ignorance.
Post continued.