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Humans are naturally plant-eaters

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posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 

My point was that it's not all meat that causes heart diseases; it's only red meat because of the higher fat percentages. And my comment about pollution and exercise was just meant to show that there is never one simple factor for heart disease and/or cancer; it's usually a combination of factors as a cause.




posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


And these statistics are based on what people are currently eating?

Any study on a normal healthy well proportioned diet shows your health risks are very minimal.

Again the cause of these ailments is over eating.

All studies show this.

All science shows this.

You know damn well a balanced diet is best. What a moot debate this is.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Ciphor
 


Eating meat decreases your life span by up to 10 years as I posted earlier.
Same source I posted earlier that you failed to read
Or maybe you ignored it, either way, looks like you need to research before talking.

edit on 26-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)


Sorry I should have clarified.

I ask you post creditable and legitimate source material.

A health insurance web site is not creditable. There is no professional medical opinion. No source for percentages, no source of author either? Who wrote that? Where is the information pulled from? Is the author a vegetarian with a skewed opinion?

Can you show me the study for percentages? Something beside an authorless sourceless blog on an insurance web site?



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Vandalour
 

www.soalive.biz...
"[B]ecause, for anatomical and physiological reasons, no mammal can exploit large amounts of both animal matter and leaves, the widely used term 'omnivore' is singularly inappropriate, even for primates. Humans might reasonably be called omnivores, however, as a result of food processing and cookery." (4)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
We have also recognized a primary vegetarian component in the diet of the Neolithic Ice Man of the Oetztaler Alps (5200 BP).
See also...Beyond Polemics by JS Coleman
The Digestive Ststem in Mammals and
Food Acquisition and Processing in Primates
- Chivers





edit on 27-1-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by WalterRatlos
There are also carcinogens in the air that we breath. Should we stop breathing, then? And there are not carcinogens in every meat; only in meat that involves industrial production and processing.


I was replying to a poster that said cancer comes from carcinogens; therefor meat doesn't produce cancer. I never said meat was the only source of carcinogens.


So ok. If you guys could stop miss-quoting and misinterpreting what I say.

When did I say "therfor meat doesn't produce cancer"

I said "Cancer is caused by eating meat? You certain that cancer is not caused by carcinogens? "

What is being implied that you were unable to detect from my sarcasm, is that MEAT is not a source of cancer. A cacinogen present in some meat is.

My obscure point here is not a difficult one to comprehend. Carcinogens are the cause of cancer. There are trace amounts of carcinogens in a lot of things, both naturally and artificially. When concerning cancer you should avoid items with abundant carcinogens. Red meat has very little, and again, as I have stated a million times, OVER-eating is the cause of ailments. Collin cancer is a good example of a unhealthy male who has done nothing but stuff steaks and cheeseburgers in his mouth day in and day out.

A balanced diet including red meat has very minimal cancer concerns.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Ciphor
 


I AM the source. I am a vegetarian and an athlete. I live the results of my research every day. I don't need to prove anything as I already have done that when I became a vegetarian to prove the validity of these claims myself. Do YOU have the balls to try this and see for yourself? Probably not. You will likely just sit at home with a bag of Doritos and keep typing away.

I am 10 times healthier than I was before even during my military days eating the 'normal' diet. Even then I was training hard physically and did all the right things to remain healthy. I was like everyone else here doubting. The one thing I didn't do is form an opinion ahead of time out of ignorance like the rest of the armchairs here. I actually said I would prove it to myself and see whats what. I have the balls to back up what I am saying every day all day.

Why don't you try it and see for yourself or are you going to try and proof out life from your keyboard?
There is actual research about the health of vegetarians and others alike. Why waste your time?You will then be just accepting what someone else says once again. Do yourself and your health a favor and try it for a month or two and see what changes in you. Or is that too scary of a concept?



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Spirit Warrior 11:11
reply to post by Ciphor
 


I AM the source. I am a vegetarian and an athlete. I live the results of my research every day. I don't need to prove anything as I already have done that when I became a vegetarian to prove the validity of these claims myself. Do YOU have the balls to try this and see for yourself? Probably not. You will likely just sit at home with a bag of Doritos and keep typing away.

I am 10 times healthier than I was before even during my military days eating the 'normal' diet. Even then I was training hard physically and did all the right things to remain healthy. I was like everyone else here doubting. The one thing I didn't do is form an opinion ahead of time out of ignorance like the rest of the armchairs here. I actually said I would prove it to myself and see whats what. I have the balls to back up what I am saying every day all day.

Why don't you try it and see for yourself or are you going to try and proof out life from your keyboard?
There is actual research about the health of vegetarians and others alike. Why waste your time?You will then be just accepting what someone else says once again. Do yourself and your health a favor and try it for a month or two and see what changes in you. Or is that too scary of a concept?


You're correct. You DON'T have to do anything. And neither do I.

However if you wish to debate what I say, which you have clearly chosen to do, then you do have to provide more information to validate your claims, otherwise you will look a fool and are basically just a wind bag saying things.

As for the rest of your post? More half baked insults and needless aggression. Maybe you are so emotional from a lack of balanced diet? Just a suggestion. I'm calm cool and collected. I eat a balanced diet, Interesting.

"There is actual research about the health of vegetarians and others alike." - You

That is excellent, since I couldn't find any creditable research, could you please help me out with some? I'm very open minded and always interested in other thoughts and beliefs. Concerning the science of it however, the medical and biological community's both are in agreeance that a balanced diet is preferred.

P.S. Maybe a balanced diet would also help your English comprehension skills as well as your socializing skills and lack of control over your aggression. You assume I have never tried a vegan or vegetarian diet. You also neglect to mention what I stated in my first post. I've known a vegan and a vegetarian. Both were constantly ill and agree their diet is to blame. Just my experience, I'm sure it does not represent anything more then those 2 individuals choices. Stating the obvious only because I believe it needs to be stated for you.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Ciphor
 


You know instead of complaining about us not bringing you enough information, and denying/ignoring it when we do or saying a "vegetarian wrote it" you could put forth the effort of finding it yourself?

It's out there, I've did my time of researching - and thats why I'm vegetarian. Go look for it instead of having other people do your work for you.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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My mother is a vegetarian and I was raised this way,until I had the freedom to eat what I wanted to a point.The result,I am smaller than my male relatives.I will never forgive her for that even though I love her dearly.Hasn't this person seen any of the chimpanzee using rocks and sticks to hunt videos out there?I do believe that certain diets are right for different types of humans.Not mine.My Ma is fat too. heard of one sick bastard trying to turn his cat into a vegan! I sympathize with the cat.The only conspiracy here is someone trying to push an agenda and wasting our time.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Ciphor
 


You know instead of complaining about us not bringing you enough information, and denying/ignoring it when we do or saying a "vegetarian wrote it" you could put forth the effort of finding it yourself?

It's out there, I've did my time of researching - and thats why I'm vegetarian. Go look for it instead of having other people do your work for you.


I did not complain. I replied to someone questioning source material of mine while providing none of his own.

I corrected you miss-saying what I said.

I pointed out how angry you guys get when someone questions you.

I did not deny anything. I pointed out your source was not creditable. I did not ignore anything, I read the article and determined it has NO AUTHOR or SOURCE. That it is not creditable.

I did put forth a lot of effort. Finding source material to back up MY CLAIMS. that is how it works. Not I do all the work, you sit back and toss out insults and fail at reading, which you seem to excel at.

Try and focus harder on my words, I am very articulate and clear in how I write things, and you should not be having trouble understanding what I am saying.

You are a mouse attempting to get into a debate with a lion of a debater. I suggest you abandon your current approach to my posts, and try sticking to hard facts and evidence rather then insults and arguments.

This will fail you every time, and the only people who wont see the foolishness of your retorts is yourself and those who are in agreeance with you. All the viewers of this thread are asking themselves why none of you can provide 1 piece of creditable evidence or source material to support your claims. It must be easier then writing and reading everything you are right now. I looked, I found none. I've stated this before.

Let's not reply with anymore insults, or foolishness. Put up or Shut up.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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I've given the facts and evidence. You just don't accept it.

Originally posted by Ciphor
You are a mouse attempting to get into a debate with a lion of a debater.


Lion eh? I'd love to see you go against a professional then.

www.debate.org...


Originally posted by Ciphor
Put up or Shut up.


My thoughts exactly. Good luck.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


The sources the debater used are as follows: (clickable versions available at link above; you won't be able to access the sources from this post)

1 books.google.com...... (page 25)
2 www.who.int......
3 en.wikipedia.org......
4 books.google.com...... (page 26)
5 books.google.com...... (page 27)
6 www.aicr.org......
7 www.aicr.org......
8 www.aicr.org......
9 www.aicr.org......
10 www.silksoymilk.com......
11 vitamins.lovetoknow.com......
12 www.whfoods.com......
13 en.wikipedia.org......
14 lunabar.com...... (click Nutrition Facts)
15 books.google.com...... (page 127)
16 en.wikipedia.org......
17 en.wikipedia.org......
18 www.aafp.org......
19 www.dietaryfiberfood.com......
20 www.cdc.gov......
21 www.americanpregnancy.org......
22 en.wikipedia.org......
23 www.veganhealth.org......
24 www.whfoods.com......
25 www.heart.org......
26 care.diabetesjournals.org......
27 www.cdc.gov......
28 www.food.gov.uk...... (section 2.2.6)
2 www.who.int......
3 books.google.com...... (page 20)
4 www.americanheart.org......
5 findarticles.com......
6 heartdisease.about.com......
7 cholesterol.about.com......


American heart association, CDC, .gov websites, not sure what you personally accept as fact (yours must differ from reality) but there are enough sources to choose from.

The best part about all this is, that the debate I posted is about a VEGAN diet. I only advise a vegetarian diet which is much easier. So, put up or shut up

And what I mean by that, is go accept a challenge at said website. I've already given all the facts; multiple times actually throughout the thread. Once again, go win a debate from said website with the results "An omnivorous diet is healthier than a vegetarian diet" and we will talk.

I stress the fact that I have already put numerous studies and scientific conclusions from a multitude of sources that prove that a vegetarian diet is healthier.



edit on 27-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
I've given the facts and evidence. You just don't accept it.


You've been doing precisely this a few pages back.

Now that I leave you think you can take our words and twist our arguments in your favor?



edit on 27-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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i don't know much about nutrition.
But i believe that if we were NOT meat eaters,we'd have to eat tons of it to fully meet our needs.
Just like pandas,they have the complete physiology(if thats the word) of a carnivore but they eat bamboo,and i mean they EAT bamboo,for hours,18 hours a day chewing on that sh*t.
So if we were naturally plant eaters,we'd need to eat a whole lotta meat to satisfy our needs.
We are omnivores,we eat what we can,when we can.
Should we eat less meat,sure.

Sometimes it makes me wanna go vegan when i think that we create whole communities,massive communities of animals just to slaughter them.It's kind of sick isn't it?
I practically stick to a small steak now and then,i hate chicken and barbecues are ok.

EDIT: oh,i don't eat pig either,except for ocassional bacon or porkchop.
edit on 27-1-2011 by metodex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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www.usatoday.com...

"The federal government and the American Dietetic Association have reported that vegetarian diets are nutritionally sound," says Neal Barnard, president of Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), a non-profit organization that focuses on preventive medicine.

Studies have found that vegetarians actually get far better nutrition than non-vegetarians, Barnard says. And vegetarians get larger amounts of fiber, iron, many vitamins and other cancer-fighting compounds than meat eaters.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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60,000 people studied.

12 years later:

3350 people had cancer

2204 were meat eaters
317 Were vegetarians who ate fish
829 were vegetarians


Link to study:
www.nature.com...



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 



Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority) is a fallacy of defective induction, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:

Source A says that p is true.
Source A is authoritative.
Therefore, p is true.
This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of a claim is not related to the authority of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect), argumentum ad potentiam (Latin: argument to power), or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it).

On the other hand, arguments from authority are an important part of informal logic. Since we cannot have expert knowledge of many subjects, we often rely on the judgments of those who do. There is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is true. The fallacy only arises when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism.

source



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11
 


*sighs* My point, worthy opponent, is contained within the statement.

Oh and Food Intolerances, far more common with plants.

And the information I provided below that goes on to prove that.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
60,000 people studied.

12 years later:

3350 people had cancer

2204 were meat eaters
317 Were vegetarians who ate fish
829 were vegetarians


Link to study:
www.nature.com...


Correlation does not equal causation.

Not all meat eaters eat the same.

On the other hand vegetarians in general tend to be more health inclined.

You absolutely cannot compare a meat eater that only eats free range meat and all natural foods to a meat eater that eats fast food and other crap. But this is what you are doing.

USE YOUR BRAIN! Meat gave it to you.

edit on 27-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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Here ya go; a page from the Western Journal of Medicine

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Conclusion: Vegetarians live longer, have fewer diseases, and are less likely to be obese to get cancer.



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