Humans are naturally plant-eaters

Humans are predators. We have predatory instincts, we have canines and we have front facing eyes used for accurate depth perception when focusing on a single target.

Herbivores tend to have eyes on the side of their head to give a wider field of view to look out for predators (like humans).

Humans need a large amount of protein to maintain a high muscle mass. While its fine in the modern era where you can survive while sat in front of a computer all day, in the past it took muscle to survive.

Vegetarianism is the exception and not the common diet.

All in all i find all evidence that humans are natural herbivores to be to the contrary.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Unless they are doctors of anthropology and just don't want you to appear too stupid. That could be another reason people say humans are most closely defined as not as carnivores or omnivores but we most closely resemble other vegetarians.
Anyone who tells you differently may not necessarily have a personal agenda...they could be just misinformed.

I challenge you to provide a link to a peer-reviewed paper by a Doctor in Anthropology saying Humans are vegetarian by nature. Homo Sapiens earliest ancestors ate meat, before our species even evolved! Our closest evolutionary cousins eat meat.

We are omniverous and, despite 26 pages of many, many people trying to show this to a few morons, they still pop up to say otherwise.

I do find it suspicious that LUXUS and the other chap have stopped posting and now you're hear to fly the flag.......

I already did...above.
Vegan... not necessarily by nature (clearly we do eat meat)...but as evidenced by our dental structure.

You find it suspicious...why am I not surprised at all. You are on a conspiracy website and so you are likely to be suspicious as a rule. lol
Seriously I did not know I was in a posse but glad to hear it. Flying a flag am I?
Gosh, that would seem to indicate there is another flag I am trying to replace.

I had no idea there was this semi-organized "movement" ...a gang here working overtime to protect a mans natural (?) right to slaughter helpless beasts and chow down. What is this, the Cattlemans Union?
I don't think anyone is trying to take your sacred cow away.
I think they are trying to smarten you up.
I definitely find it preposterous people engaging in such a bloodthirsty and cruel method of feeding themselves are here defending it and not only that... trying to attract intice and rationalize why others should kill fellow creatures and join them in their bloodlust and damage their own hearts and health as well.
I guess MISERY really does love company.

So you go with your big bad self, meat eaters. It is your heart.
And remember the strongest and largest creatures on the planet are vegan.

reply to post by herostwist


I read your post. All interesting little tidbits of misinformation adding up to naught.
I can tell you already imagine you are a big bad carnivore.
I have a nephew who pretends he's a dinosaur. So cute.
OK. You're a carnivore.
Feel better?

Sometimes telling a little fib...when the truth is just too hard to swallow...is ok.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Am I correct in my assertion, that you are trying to claim that our dentistry is evidence of our herbivourus nature, even though the evidence provided by ancient remains, the way our guts currently work, and have done for thousands of years, the fact that the vegetarian diet is capable of causing starvation like symptomology in some people, AND the FACT that dentistry and dietary matters vary according to climate and altitude , and other geographical features, speak against that stand point?
Are you basicaly saying that because our teeth are a certain shape, all the other evidence which supports millenia of unabashed omnivourus activity , is false? I feel you may be slightly overstating the importance of the central points of your argument.
Humanity has spent the vast proportion of its time on Earth, eating what it has to in order to survive. As I have mentioned before, the earliest records of mankind in Britain prove that even in the deepest recesses of Britains human population, hunting and the consumption of flesh are well established already.
Also, it is I believe important to accept that even the most primative cultures on this planet, like those I have previously mentioned , living in the Amazon basin, eat meat even though thier culture has remained unchanged due to lack of direct contact with the modern world for many thousands of years.
It may well be true that back in the time before man learned the use of tools, when he was still covered from head to foot in thick fur, when he stood on the precipice of intelligence , and was not yet truely man, he may have been a scavenger, a forager, an eater of only things which could not fight or deny him his meal. But the very moment that mankind learned to wield a blunt object in defence of , or to feed his kin, he became a meat eater, a killer of beasts, and able to eat animals which might have killed him in times past. Over time hunting weapons became more refined, heavy sticks becoming staffs and spears, rocks being tied to sticks, to increase the force with which a prey animal or attacker might be struck, and ultimately refining further into bows and arrows, and finely balanced throwing spears capable of straight and terrifying flight through the air.
Since man became man, he has hunted, and killed both to protect, and to feed. There is no evidence whatsoever which eliminates this simple truth. Look at the earliest and most intact remains you can find, and ask the archeologists, and the scientists who test the contents of the body, based on the chemicals present in the abdomenal cavity, what was likely the basic content of the stomach upon death, and assuming the unfortunate chap didnt die of starvation, you will likely as not find that he had consumed corpse flesh.
Previous to hunting, killing , and eating his food, mankind was nothing more than an ape.
If you wish to attempt to argue that we should have stayed in the trees eating bugs and berries, well I can understand and in some way agree with you. But mankind only exists because our diets expanded as fast as our ability to kill did. There is no evidence which supports any other hypothesis.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Wrong. Those itty bitty baby teeth are not incisors. Ask a dentist.

...And they aren't canine teeth either. Our teeth are clearly for mashing and mincing not for tearing flesh. Also, carnivores don't need to cook their food they eat it raw and have specific digestive processes for that. There are no caveats for eating veggies in the human diet...cooked, uncooked etc...it's all beneficial.

These guys just don't get it. It's like they think we are prying the hamburger out of their hands. Meanwhile they are snacking on processed junk before their high saturated fat hamburgers etc... and they are the ones with expert diet advice.

In my opinion vegetarians are not only healthier they are more knowledgeable about health because they at least pause to think about what substances they ingest.

Think about this meat eaters... McDonald's and other hamburger makers don't just cook the meat. They treat it with chemical 'taste enhancers' and preservatives etc....this is not even food found in nature anywhere by the time humans are done processing it. And worse is the fact that the animals themselves are 'processed' while still living. Loaded with growth hormones, huge enormous doses of antibodies and steroids. I believe this last statement is the reason for much of the health problems. What comes IN the meat is very detrimental to the body.

If you are going to eat meat at least try and buy organic for your own healths sake. I don't care who wins the debate here I really care about the health of everyone here. Do what you will but at least do it knowledgeably and not out of ignorance.

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by epitaph.one
things that our bodies need to survive taste the best. evolution doesnt want to spit something out that cant figure out what to eat.

what tastes amazing?

meat.

think about it a sec.

Obviously you have never given your body a chance to clean out and decide that for itself.
If you stay away from meat for a while...it smells and tastes like what it is.
Decaying and rotting flesh.

Trust me...that's something your body doesn't need.
You have enough of that hanging off your bones as it is.
Time marches on.

This is absolutely true and I was amazed by that.
I originally grew up in Texas and they are the biggest meat eaters there are in every sense of the word. We have large portions of meat every day and BBQ is not just a dinner it is an experience nightly.

Once I switched to vegetarian I was amazed by the changes. While the meat still smelled delicious (probably psychological) the taste was sooo different than it used to be. It actually DOES taste like dead flesh. Of course the worse the quality of meat is the worse the taste and 'consequences'. Organic meat is by far the best tasting but I still can't stomach much if any. It is a little sad because I feel like I am being impolite when I visit people back home but the reality is I find the taste generally repulsive now. And what is worse is I have all these superb family recipes for BBQ that are going to waste. It was such a big thing in my family I considered opening a BBQ pit myself.

i believe the classic saying is "everything in moderation". Without eating meat, we would not have ingested the proteins necessary for our brains to evolve in the way that they did. Meat consumption has played a key part in our evolution and I'm sure that still holds true today

reply to post by MaOtCtKiIcNuGsBIRD


Are you trying to imply that vegetables do not have protein?
This is an ignorant statement. Vegetables have all the protein we need.
We ate meat as an opportunistic species not because we needed it for protein development.
There are many digestive actions to accomplish in order to strip the aminos from flesh. Vegetables have more readily available amino acids without all the byproducts.

reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11


Consistent vegetable protein sources are not always available. If people could not get nutrition from animals during these times, they would starve to death. The unusually wide range of nutritious plants available to the modern day vegan would not have been possible through most of our history.

This is why I view veganism as a privilege, not a natural state of existence.

I wish hemp could be grown locally, as I consume a lot of hemp protein. I am forced to use Canadian imports though

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Unless they are doctors of anthropology and just don't want you to appear too stupid. That could be another reason people say humans are most closely defined as not as carnivores or omnivores but we most closely resemble other vegetarians.
Anyone who tells you differently may not necessarily have a personal agenda...they could be just misinformed.

I challenge you to provide a link to a peer-reviewed paper by a Doctor in Anthropology saying Humans are vegetarian by nature. Homo Sapiens earliest ancestors ate meat, before our species even evolved! Our closest evolutionary cousins eat meat.

We are omniverous and, despite 26 pages of many, many people trying to show this to a few morons, they still pop up to say otherwise.

I do find it suspicious that LUXUS and the other chap have stopped posting and now you're hear to fly the flag.......

I already did...above.
Vegan... not necessarily by nature (clearly we do eat meat)...but as evidenced by our dental structure.

You find it suspicious...why am I not surprised at all. You are on a conspiracy website and so you are likely to be suspicious as a rule. lol
Seriously I did not know I was in a posse but glad to hear it. Flying a flag am I?
Gosh, that would seem to indicate there is another flag I am trying to replace.

I had no idea there was this semi-organized "movement" ...a gang here working overtime to protect a mans natural (?) right to slaughter helpless beasts and chow down. What is this, the Cattlemans Union?
I don't think anyone is trying to take your sacred cow away.
I think they are trying to smarten you up.
I definitely find it preposterous people engaging in such a bloodthirsty and cruel method of feeding themselves are here defending it and not only that... trying to attract intice and rationalize why others should kill fellow creatures and join them in their bloodlust and damage their own hearts and health as well.
I guess MISERY really does love company.

So you go with your big bad self, meat eaters. It is your heart.
And remember the strongest and largest creatures on the planet are vegan.

edit on 25-1-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)

Lol, so you ignore my last post to you, nice, anyway, so now you say we can eat meat by nature but we can't or should not eat meat because our dentition?

So, how can that be natural and not natural at the same time?

The rest of your post in only an emotional speech, but the part about the heart is funny, is very clear vegetarians still don't understand the difference between eating good meat and bad meat and we at least are not trying to rationalize the consumption of a "natural" diet based in supplements, pills, and fortified foods that doesn't grow in nature.

And yes, we remember, the stronger and largest creatures on the planets are vegan, or vegetarian, but is not a good point, how many millions of them had we hunted in our history as species? how many of them had we made extinct? how many of them are now fossils with marks of our tools because we ate them? come on, that's your best argument?

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


Vegan-ism is an extreme and not a viable choice to use as an example.
Lacto-ovo are the most common. I would say greater than 80%.

Also, we do not require a vast variety of plant forms. My staple is using only 3-4 very common plants.
As I stated above our choice to eat animals was opportunistic. I do not believe we developed from eating animals and having plant life occasionally. I believe it was the other way around. Most food consumed was plant life, nuts, bugs, grain and grain type breads.

This says nothing about the current human diet. Even meat eaters eat way too much meat per serving in general. Add processed 'non-foods' on top of that and the general population is seriously lacking in healthy nutrient filled foods. There is no way to argue against that point just go out to the local food court and look at all the garbage people eat and how fat they have become because of it. The body cannot handle foods and additives which are not natural. Current meat supplies are loaded with crap inside them as well unless you buy organic.

reply to post by Vandalour


Just thinking...it occurrs to me calling humans carnivores, even omnivores is a little like calling us cannibals because of the Donner party.

What we do does not change what we are at our most defining core.

Another thought...Less than 1%...
The difference in genetic material that determines whether a being is on one hand protected valued loved and cared for, even in the womb...or whether he is hunted, for hands and feet, and has his brain scooped out alive for diners, diners who share his DNA...a close ancestor. Related to us and the difference being... less than 1%

We may not actually be cannibals in the purest sense of the word, but we are not too far off the mark.

No they don't speak as eloquently as dearoldgrammy...but without conscious thought entering into dietary needs there is little to stop us from chasing her down and eating her too.

There are those who will claim they, and not animals - are priviliged to own a soul and so this makes it correct and good.

I think the jury is still out on that one.

What it comes down to for me is this...go ahead and eat meat.
Nobody is stopping you.

But if you brag about it, boast over the death and encourage others to join you in the slaughter and feast...you are sort of a jerk, pertetuating and glorifying bloodlust. This as you are well aware is a sad practice many others including myself would like to see phased out.
This doesn't mean we don't find it a sacrifice ourselves...it is difficult when you are raised as a meat eater to forgo BBQ's. Other humans find that easier than I do.

I certainly do not hate them for being vegan.
I certainly can find no reason to condemn them, taunt and mock them.
I for certain would not frequent a conspiracy website in order to talk them OUT of their personal decision regarding murder for food.

To the great and powerful hunters here on the thread...hey daniel boon noone is trying to take your kill away.
We are trying to teach children that although it was acceptable, even common, in our primitiveand recent history - it is no longer recommended.
All kids (but yours) should learn it is barbaric, unnecessary and ultimately unwise, to routinely and habitually spill blood and kill another creature for food.

There are other humans who actually deserve your enmity, and furious anger...Why do you take it all out on compassionate humans?
This is where I think this little wolf pack goes way over the line.






PS One of the links offered in previous posts has an excellent explanation offered by both anthropologists and dentist's. I am having computer issues and so cannot search (right now) to find something PEER REVIEWED as requested to prove the position I also hold...man is not a carnivore, not even a true omnivore, he is an herbivore who has adapted to accept other food stuffs..inefficiently digested though they may be.
When I have that "smoking gun" detractors are looking for in order to CONVINCE the skeptics and the certain...I'll be back! Meanwhile, feel free to argue amongst yourselves.

Originally posted by Spirit Warrior 11:11

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Wrong. Those itty bitty baby teeth are not incisors. Ask a dentist.

...And they aren't canine teeth either. Our teeth are clearly for mashing and mincing not for tearing flesh. Also, carnivores don't need to cook their food they eat it raw and have specific digestive processes for that. There are no caveats for eating veggies in the human diet...cooked, uncooked etc...it's all beneficial.

These guys just don't get it. It's like they think we are prying the hamburger out of their hands. Meanwhile they are snacking on processed junk before their high saturated fat hamburgers etc... and they are the ones with expert diet advice.

In my opinion vegetarians are not only healthier they are more knowledgeable about health because they at least pause to think about what substances they ingest.

Think about this meat eaters... McDonald's and other hamburger makers don't just cook the meat. They treat it with chemical 'taste enhancers' and preservatives etc....this is not even food found in nature anywhere by the time humans are done processing it. And worse is the fact that the animals themselves are 'processed' while still living. Loaded with growth hormones, huge enormous doses of antibodies and steroids. I believe this last statement is the reason for much of the health problems. What comes IN the meat is very detrimental to the body.

If you are going to eat meat at least try and buy organic for your own healths sake. I don't care who wins the debate here I really care about the health of everyone here. Do what you will but at least do it knowledgeably and not out of ignorance.

You know, as a meat eater i totally support your speech again hormones, stereoids and that, the problem with your argument is that i eat good meat, natural meat, them your argument is not important, because the health problems are caused for all those additions to modern food.

And we can eat meat raw, in fact, we can process raw meat, we can even extract more nutrients, we do have acid in our stomachs, yes, is not as potent as the acid in "true carnivores" but is more strong that what "true herbivores" have in the stomachs, i do eat meat raw and my girlfriend too, of course, a lot of people don't, but our species can do it if we want, the cooking is because is easy to digest and better taste, and of course, is more safe to cook meat when you don't know how it was treated.

And again, we humans are not carnivorans, so why the obsession making comparations with them, we are omnivores, we ate fish too and i don't see anybody saying we can't because we don't look like dolphins or whales.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Vandalour

 

PS One of the links offered in previous posts has an excellent explanation offered by both anthropologists and dentist's. I am having computer issues and so cannot search (right now) to find something PEER REVIEWED as requested to prove the position I also hold...man is not a carnivore, not even a true omnivore, he is an herbivore who has adapted to accept other food stuffs..inefficiently digested though they may be.
When I have that "smoking gun" detractors are looking for in order to CONVINCE the skeptics and the certain...I'll be back! Meanwhile, feel free to argue amongst yourselves.

Come on, really, so, you say we have adapted and you still say is not natural because we are natural plant eaters? really, is like saying we have adapted to bidepalism but we are natural quadrupedals.

We have adapted and loss most of our bodyhair but we are still furry.

We can't climb trees efficiently anymore but we obviously are tree climbers.

We lost our opposable thumb in the feets but we still have it.

Really, if your best argument is go back in history and say we are something we were in the past and we are not anymore, the same can i go back and say we are natural reptiles or fishes.

Originally posted by Spirit Warrior 11:11
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

I don't know where most of these posters are getting their information but most of it is completely off. Guys referencing his expert opinion because he knows other vegetarians etc... not a knowledge base by any means.

To respond to your point. YES, one MAY become calcium deficient if you are a vegan. However, veganism requires a lot of research to begin with. They quickly find all the caveats in their lifestyle.

You should also know that most (90%) of vegetarians including myself are Lacto-ovo. Which means we get our calcium from dairy like everyone else and lost of our protein as well.

As with any diet there are shortages which should be addressed via food variety, specific nutrient targeting, and lastly supplementation. I have found omnivores are deficient in more categories than vegetarians generally because they tend to eat too few veggies and fruit which is where most nutritional content lies. It is not a contest I'm just stating facts. Most of the population is nutrient deficient in multiple areas and that goes for veggi and omni alike.

Thanks for the friendly response

The statement posed by the OP; "Humans are naturally plant eaters", is a true statement, but we are not meant to be exclusively herbavores. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your response indicates that humans must suplement a vegan diet in order to stay healthy. (If my interpretation of your response is in-accurate, please forgive) Many responses in this thread say essentially the same thing, that Vegans need to suplement nutrients normally provided by animal flesh in order to remain healthy. Logically, if the previous statement is true than we must conclude that humans were never meant to be herbavore or carnivore exclusively but must be omnivores..... naturally.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


But it is not the variety of food types, it is the variety of essential building blocks that your body needs. Protein can come from animals or plants (beans, nuts, certain fruits, rice and other grains, etc.); Fat can come from animals or plants (bananas, avocados, nuts, grains); Iron can come from animals or plants (dark green vegetables like spinach, broccoli, and more).

I agree that a varied diet is necessary for optimum health. However, people who eat a meat-based diet and whose adventures in the land of "vegetables" are restricted to french fries, white buns and onion rings are much more likely to face deficiencies of nutrients than a person who has never eaten a piece of meat in their lives. You can't really get your fiber from animals. You can also avoid over doing it on protein (you can overdo it on protein), cholesterol and fats by limiting your intake of animal flesh or avoiding it altogether.

Vegetarians - for the most part - still eat fish, eggs, cheese and other dairy. Of course they still possess the possibility of becoming fat. Exercise is still a major component to a well-toned physique.

Vegans, on the other hand, tend to avoid animal products and by-products in both diet and daily usage, as much as possible. They could still become fat if they rely heavily on the processed foods commercially-available in pre-packaged foods. I mean, technically mountain dew and mini oreos are vegan. Cooking natural meals every day requires dedication in a time when most people rely heavily on microwaves, drive-thrus and delivery. You don't find a lot of vegan fast food, because it will usually mean salads or starches (potatoes) only, which are not enough for a vegan diet to be complete (protein?).

It all depends on the person how their body ends up.

reply to post by Vandalour


Are you a vegetarian? If yes you are not an impartial observer.

There is as much science that states we are omnivores.
It is not the meat we eat, but the chemical crap that manufacturers insert into in at the processing stage.
And as for not eating other creatures - plants have as much right to life as animals.
So by that reasoning we should not eat anything!

reply to post by Blarneystoner


I don't think you got the entire gist of my post no. Vegans are an extreme. Once again I don't feel that ANY extreme any side of any discussion should be used as a base. This is only useful for someone with an agenda other than truth and more aligned with personal beliefs and myth.

Yes Vegans must either supplement or target nutrient dense foods to address and deficiencies. I do have some of the same beliefs as vegans in general but I found acceptable solutions. I am not just a vegetarian for health reasons, I am also opposed to the industrialized food industry. ANYONE who watches the true events of how that hamburger or chicken breast starts and finishes in the supermarket would have issues also. The problem is there is pretty much a media blackout on that topic and you have to WANT to know.

I am ok with just eating organic meats very occasionally. I don't have any issues eating fish generally but I oppose any poor treatment of animal and fish species and if I have the choice I WILL vote with my wallet.

You may find, as a vegetarian, all the nutritious foods necessary within your basic supermarket. No specialty items are necessary. There ARE items which make life much easier and more nutritious like superfoods but you don't have to. It's just more efficient.

reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11


No... I groked it. I was just trying to relate it back to the OP with regards to whether or not humans are naturally herbivores (exclusively implied).

No worries... i think you're correct in saying that humans are healthiest when a balanced diet is practiced which would mainly consist of plant nutrients suplemented with animal flesh. Early humans were not able to compete with larger predators and probably didn't eat near as much meat as modern humans do. However, it's well documented that pre-historic humans in N. America hunted (and ate) large mammals....

reply to post by Blarneystoner


I have no issues with those statements. In my opinion humans are meant to live off of mainly veggies, fruit, nuts, grains. Little to no meat is necessary and that lifestyle is actually the easiest because you can do that without having to cook anything. You can also carry your food around without needing refrigeration or microwaves etc...