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Humans are naturally plant-eaters

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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by The_Zomar
 


GMO soy, canola, corn of which you apparently support and mono crops are just as devastating to our environment and require massive amount of energy, and are used for human consumption not just cattle feed Grassfed meats don't cause pollution



In addition to consuming less energy, grassfed beef has another environmental advantage — it is far less polluting. The animals’ wastes drop onto the land, becoming nutrients for the next cycle of crops. In feedlots and other forms of factory farming, however, the animals’ wastes build up in enormous quantities, becoming a staggering source of water and air pollution.

www.johnrobbins.info...

Don't know why I'm adding a link since you don't read them.




posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by kalamatas
sometimes clear cognitive function is a little difficult when you're missing essential Omega 3's.


You mean the same Omega 3's that are easily obtainable by adding flaxseed, hempseed, canola oil, and walnuts to our recipes?

Ignorance is a hell of a drug.


Ignorance is hell of a drug. Flax seed etcetera have unbalanced ratios of omega 6 to omega 3. Do your homework cowboy. Hempseed is the closest to being balanced but still has drawbacks. Do I need to give you the facts, because I will if you'll read them. You are very ill informed and are running on ancient false information.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Equinox99
 


Animals do adapt. So why is it such a crazy idea that humans should adapt to a vegetarian diet? Factory farming has done more to hurt our atmosphere than oil's entire history. 29 thousand pounds of potatoes can be grown in the same area it takes to grow 150 pounds of meat. You people are too busy defending your prime ribs to be concerned about the atmosphere or world hunger. Makes me sick.


Because we humans indulge in stuff that tastes good. If you want to stick to eating potatoes than that is your deal but don't try to put your opinions about how humans should be vegetarians on us meat eaters. If you don't like people eating meat than there is over a million square miles of rain forests for you to go an enjoy your vegetables at.

You want to talk about atmosphere while sitting behind your computer? All you are doing is pointing fingers and saying this is what should be done. Well I can point fingers too Mr. Vegan, how about you turn off your computer and sell it? Sell your property and build a potato farm that would compete with meat farms. That is the only way I will stop eating meat. When vegetables start yielding tastes that far surpass any delightful meat recipes.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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The problem many people have with eating meat is the volume and the amount of fat which is present in it. There are plenty of lean meat sources and if we don't eat too much it's actually very good for us.

And if we were supposed to be vego's, why do we have binocular vision that all predators posses? So we can stalk the carrots from afar and correctly judge the distance ready for attack?
Eat meat, it's very good for you, just don't eat too much!!

Also, the way we treat our animals before we kill them and eat them is a big issue, but that's a completely different thread
edit on 22-1-2011 by DarcyD28 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by PoorFool

Humans are animals, and animals are not picky spoiled brats with eating disorders.


Now you're just trolling.

I respect everyone's choice of diet. So do most of the vegetarians I've ever met.

Why do you feel the need to resort to insults? Frustration?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Segador

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Vandalour
 


True. There will be much written about incisors and they will be misinformed. We are not meant to eat meat. We can but we are not designed for it right down to intestinal fluids. We eat meat because we are still little barbarians who don't know any better. But we are learning. One of these days we will be all we were meant to be. Not tomorrow or anything...but soon.


We are more adapted to eating meat than we are plants, like I said earlier we can eat almost every single animal on the planet save for a few poisonous ones.
We can only eat a small number of plants

And yes we are Omnivores
We can survive on a vegan diet alone like the vegetarians
and we can survive an all meat diet like the Inuit.



If I hadn't aleady done a geat deal of study on exactly this subject I might go along with you.

But you happen to be mistaken. Totally and completely.

Plants. Now this damned compute will not make the lette afte Q else I would go on and ty to say moe. Anyway in some othe post in anothe debate this has aleady been concluded.

Feel fee to go ove it all again. Ty not to misinfom.
In this case it has deadly consequences.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by MonteroReal
 


You are failing to see what I am saying, or forgetting what I have said.

You said if our bodies can process it then it means we should eat it.

I gave an example of other things we can process, but choose not to eat.



Lol, no, lets see, here is my original post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I quote "In the end all this debate is very senseless because the fact is one, if our body can process something, we can eat it, if we can't process it, we can't eat it."

You see? where did i say we should?, i said "we CAN", no "we should", i know i may be making some mistake, english is not my native language, but i understand that "can" means that we have the skill, ability, it doesn't mean we have an obligation, and what i understad of "should" if that means that we have an obligation to do it, kind of a duty.

So, no, you are the one missing the point, if we can do it something then that is part of our equipment, and because is part of our equipment is natural, we can process meat, is natural, we can't process cellulose, is not natural, yes, we can choose what to do, but that you choose not to do it doesn't make that skill unnatural or wrong, you can start eating grass today if you want, you won't still process the cellulose and it won't matter any moral justification you make because still won't be a natural thing for our species, and you may not eat meat but your body still will have the ability to process it.

So, can you be nice and not twist my words?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Wallachian

Originally posted by PoorFool

Humans are animals, and animals are not picky spoiled brats with eating disorders.


Now you're just trolling.

I respect everyone's choice of diet. So do most of the vegetarians I've ever met.

Why do you feel the need to resort to insults? Frustration?


Out of all my arguments, you have to pick that one line to argue against? Weak.


Directed to no one in particular:

I respect your diet choice, but don't come here arguing that humans are meant to be strict herbivores and that killing animals for food and raw materials is immoral. Especially when you provide no scientific evidence. This is not the ATS way to do things.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Vandalour
 


Hippo's canines are for fighting and being hot for the ladies. We actually use our canines to shred meat to eat. Slightly different function really, therefore a bad example



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by kalamatas
 


The lack of validity is what I'm laughing at.

So far I've had TV shows presented to me as evidence.

I've been told humans aren't animals.

I've been told we should eat anything our bodies can digest.

I've been told eating raw meat is healthy.

And a couple of you would like me to believe that inuits originated from the polar ice cap.

Sometimes people on these boards are too hard to take seriously. My apologies.


You've had a hell of a lot more than tv shows pal. You've read NONE of the links. You're in denial. Give a rebuttal of any of the links, like the one on Inuits and Cardiovascular disease. No one said or even implied Inuits originated there! You've been told raw meat is healthy and there is credibility in that, but of course you haven't researched it.

Same back at you pal. No one is taking you seriously because you've given us nothing but opinion and have read NOTHING that anyone has provided. I said READ not watch videos. READ.

And Inuit, Native Americans etc. weren't parasites. They had reverence for the animal who gave it's life for their survival and never wasted any bit of the animal.
edit on 22-1-2011 by kalamatas because: typo



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by PoorFool
 


Sorry but in my opinion an insult is an insult and it can be taken out of context.

I'm all for science, but in this case I don't really need it. I know I can very well live on a vegetarian diet. Experience has showed me so.

And as I said before, I couldn't care less if humans were meant to eat meat or not. For me, yes, for the last time, it's a choice. And it was a good one. Please stop attacking all vegetarians because you met one that was pushy or arrogant or whatever.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by DarcyD28
The problem many people have with eating meat is the volume and the amount of fat which is present in it. There are plenty of lean meat sources and if we don't eat too much it's actually very good for us.

And if we were supposed to be vego's, why do we have binocular vision that all predators posses? So we can stalk the carrots from afar and correctly judge the distance ready for attack?
Eat meat, it's very good for you, just don't eat too much!!

Also, the way we treat our animals before we kill them and eat them is a big issue, but that's a completely different thread
edit on 22-1-2011 by DarcyD28 because: (no reason given)


And eat only pasture raised meat, because the fat in it is actually healthy.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by kalamatas
GMO soy, canola, corn of which you apparently support and mono crops are just as devastating to our environment and require massive amount of energy, and are used for human consumption not just cattle feed Grassfed meats don't cause pollution.


I like that you include (and assume) GMO as a ploy to try to sell your garble. Hate to break it to you, but your meat is GMO and unlike vegetables, I can't see you growing your own. And the energy argument is out of the question, concerning you have to use the same amount of energy to produce the food just to keep your cattle alive.


Originally posted by kalamatas

Ignorance is hell of a drug. Flax seed etcetera have unbalanced ratios of omega 6 to omega 3. Do your homework cowboy. Hempseed is the closest to being balanced but still has drawbacks.


You failed to include the part where the average American has too much omega 3 from eating meat. Must have simply forgot that tidbit, yeah?


Originally posted by Equinox99
Because we humans indulge in stuff that tastes good. If you want to stick to eating potatoes than that is your deal but don't try to put your opinions about how humans should be vegetarians on us meat eaters. If you don't like people eating meat than there is over a million square miles of rain forests for you to go an enjoy your vegetables at.


This country is mine just as much as it is yours. I could have suggested you live in india so that you may more easily worship cows, but that would be an unneeded part of the debate, much like your comments.


Originally posted by Equinox99
You want to talk about atmosphere while sitting behind your computer? All you are doing is pointing fingers and saying this is what should be done.

Your right, I am pointing fingers because look where your theories have got us.


Originally posted by Equinox99Mr. Vegan

I don't even have to say a word.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by kalamatas

Ignorance is hell of a drug. Flax seed etcetera have unbalanced ratios of omega 6 to omega 3. Do your homework cowboy. Hempseed is the closest to being balanced but still has drawbacks.


You failed to include the part where the average American has too much omega 3 from eating meat. Must have simply forgot that tidbit, yeah?

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. If not, you need to do some serious research. If there is one thing missing from an average westerner's diet it's precisely omega 3 (best found in wild fish). On the other hand, they eat way too much omega 6 coming mostly from vegetable oils like uh, soy?


Source (click on pic)

fanaticcook.blogspot.com...

"There's thinking that an optimum N6:N3 ratio is closer to something smaller, 4:1 or less. Some of us are eating a ratio of 20:1 and higher."

ps. not a very credible source but I like the table. The ratios he speaks of is general knowledge, easily researched in other sites.
edit on 22-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Vandalour
 


Well, first of all that introductory picture is rude. If your intent was shock value you succeeded... succeeded in shocking any respect I might have had for your opinion right out of my mind. I do not believe you are only "thinking" about becoming a vegetarian or vegan, I think you already are one. Your manner and tactics suggest as much.

When you eat a vegetable, you are also eating a dead organism. So, it's pointless and completely hypocritical to only claim that omnivores or Carnivores are eating "corpses".

Your source is full of flawed assumptions and flawed conclusions. For the sake of length, I'll stick to addressing their bulletpoints at the top. If you think any of the non-bulletpoints are winners, list it and I'll give a response.

Quotes from your "michaelbluejay"...(bulletpoints at top)
Humans are naturally plant-eaters.


Our so-called "canine teeth" are "canine" in name only. Other plant-eaters (like gorillas, horses, and hippos) have "canines", and chimps, who are almost exclusively vegan, have massive canines compared to ours.



The animals most similar to us, the other primates, eat an almost exclusively vegan diet (and their main non-plant food often isn't meat, it's termites).

All these links are reports of these allegedly plant food only animals, eating meat. Especially Chimps. And not just Termites, these Apes eat Monkeys.

The Predatory Behavior and Ecology of Wild Chimps

Reports of Carnivory by Common Hippo

First Proof Gorillas Eat Monkeys?

More bulletpoints...


Our early ancestors from at least four million years ago were almost exclusively vegetarian.



Our omnivorism means we're capable of eating meat (useful from a survival standpoint if that's all that's available), but our bodies aren't geared for it to be a normal, significant part of our diets.



Our teeth, saliva, stomach acid, and intestines are most similar to other plant-eaters, and dissimilar to carnivores and true omnivores.


What we USED to be is irrelevant, we have evolved in those 4 million years to process cooked meat. In fact, cooking meat meant we could use less energy to digest food. This gave us more energy to put into other things...like our brains.

Intelligence, Evolution of the Human Brain, and Diet

More bulletpoints...


Among animals, plant-eaters have the longest lifespans, and humans are certainly in that category (and yes, this was true even before modern medicine).


This only proves that different animals have different lifespans.

Cherry-picking a few animals like Tortoises or Elephants and claiming herbivores live longer, like your source does later in his article doesn't help their point. Horses 20 years...like most large Carnivores...bears, etc. Rhinoceroses 15, Gorillas (the alleged plant-only eaters) 20, Giraffes 10, Deer 10, Camel 12, Bovines 20.

More bulletpoints...


We sleep about the same amount of time as other herbivores, and less than carnivores and true omnivores.


The link "proving" this claim doesn't work. I can't properly address it. I doubt it's true though, the author has proven their willingness to cherry-pick examples and outright make false claims. At best, it's probably extremely misinterpreted.

More bulletpoints...


The most common cause of choking deaths is eating meat. (source) Real carnivores and omnivores don't have that problem.


This is an outright lie, and misinterpretation of the (source) claims. The (source) link goes here....

Deaths associated with choking in San Diego county



We found 133 victims who died from choking, with 14% having using alcohol or other sedatives and 55% having a documented neurological deficit or anatomic difficulty with swallowing. The most common specified food objects that victims choked on were meat products, and 45% occurred at home, followed by 26% at supervised facilities, and 14% at restaurants.


So the real cause of choking deaths (in San Diego County in these specific 133 victims), is having a neurological deficit or anatomic difficulty. I can only wonder why your pro-veggie source would fail to mention that...

Your linked videos aren't really worth too much comment. One is for shock value, the other is soft-journalism you are presenting as some kind of evidence, even though it doesn't really prove anything.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by kalamatas
GMO soy, canola, corn of which you apparently support and mono crops are just as devastating to our environment and require massive amount of energy, and are used for human consumption not just cattle feed Grassfed meats don't cause pollution.


I like that you include (and assume) GMO as a ploy to try to sell your garble. Hate to break it to you, but your meat is GMO and unlike vegetables, I can't see you growing your own. And the energy argument is out of the question, concerning you have to use the same amount of energy to produce the food just to keep your cattle alive.


Originally posted by kalamatas


Ignorance is hell of a drug. Flax seed etcetera have unbalanced ratios of omega 6 to omega 3. Do your homework cowboy. Hempseed is the closest to being balanced but still has drawbacks.


You failed to include the part where the average American has too much omega 3 from eating meat. Must have simply forgot that tidbit, yeah?


Originally posted by Equinox99
Because we humans indulge in stuff that tastes good. If you want to stick to eating potatoes than that is your deal but don't try to put your opinions about how humans should be vegetarians on us meat eaters. If you don't like people eating meat than there is over a million square miles of rain forests for you to go an enjoy your vegetables at.


This country is mine just as much as it is yours. I could have suggested you live in india so that you may more easily worship cows, but that would be an unneeded part of the debate, much like your comments.


Originally posted by Equinox99
You want to talk about atmosphere while sitting behind your computer? All you are doing is pointing fingers and saying this is what should be done.

Your right, I am pointing fingers because look where your theories have got us.


Originally posted by Equinox99Mr. Vegan

I don't even have to say a word.



You promote Chili's and Denny's and no there's no gmo meat where I get mine and the energy it takes to raise the cows comes from the sun and rain!


Too much Omega 3's. There's no upper intake limit. Too much only causes blood thinning. OOOOOh scary!

edit on 22-1-2011 by kalamatas because: n/a



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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I didn't go through the entire thread, I do not need to. Let me just throw this out there. Humans are OMNIVORES. We eat both, we are not geared to one over the other, its both. Anything else is just an opinion and not fact. If you chose to eat just one or the other you would have to also take vitamins to get a lot of things like iron, and if the world collapses, you will have no choice but to eat both. You would starve rather quickly if you refused to eat meat.

Nature gave us this great ability for survival,and not a lot of animals have this, we should feel lucky.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Esoterically speaking, vegetarians and vegans are simply on a higher spiritual plane. Omnivores genuinely can not and do not get it on a conceptual and intellectual level. Naturally, if I were an omnivore, I wouldn't want to admit this to myself either.

The wheel turns. Every pound of flesh an omnivore consumes, they will pay in kind for in subsequent life times. Karma will have its way. Your belief in it or understanding of it is irrelevant. Such truths aggravate the omnivore as they should.

I'd reconsider an omnivorous diet only to consume human omnivores; alive if possible.

edit on 22/1/2011 by rexusdiablos because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by kalamatas
 


Where do you live? See where I live we have local farms, that you can purchase pastured chickens and beef from, and pastured eggs. The dairy I drink is from grass fed cow and raw. There's no corn to harvest process and ship to feed these animals. They live off of nature, the way God meant it. You've absolutely skimmed and missed the bigger picture here. Nobody's condemning you for your choices, but your superiority complex and condemning of others is ENTIRELY unfounded. Do you know what unfounded means?

Nobody's arguing that feedlots are a criminal practice. That's why I don't support them. I also don't support genetically modified organisms, so would never recommend someone eat at Chili's, Denny's or Applebee's. And if you're so darn concerned about animal welfare why would you recommend someone eat at a place that supports factory farm practices? I don't eat out simply for those reasons and if I do it's at restaurants that support sustainable practices and don't serve feedlot meat!

edit on 22-1-2011 by kalamatas because: typo



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by rexusdiablos
Esoterically speaking, vegetarians and vegans are simply on higher spiritual plane. Omnivores genuinely can not and do not get it on a conceptual and intellectual level. Naturally, if I were an omnivore, I wouldn't want to admit this myself either.

I'd reconsider an omnivorous diet only to consume human omnivores; alive if possible.




And you base this on?




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