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I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by CJCSuperman
Although I would agree with this, how do you gather any evidence to support your claims???


Evidence, such as photos and video from a suppoed 'sighting' can be doctored.

However if there are enough sources which have verifiable evidence then such a stance as I mentioned earlier would have to take them into account.

The problem is that no such case has yet appeared. There is no UFO 'case' where the evidence allows for the possibility of doubt when it comes to their not being visiting ETs.

I'm all for you teaching your kids what you think is right and getting them to look at all angles and well done to you for doing so. Try to remember though that whilst the physics of your TV of computer might baffle you there are means to verify how it works from many independent sources and that is what evidence can do.

It can show you from people who don't stand anything to gain working together to produce something that benefits us all.

Something the UFO community has yet to produce. Although it's being waited for as well as looked for by our best minds.

-m0r




posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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The subject itself is difficult, yes, is it the people sharing new ideas? Or personal experinces?? No I dont think so, I believe that most people who are saying they have experinced things such as abductions or contact with alien beings more then likely are being truthful...Noticed how I said most, and more then likely, because the fact of the matter is, MOST people know that if they come forward and tell their story they will be ridiculed, and crusified as insaine, a liar, seeking attention, ect ect and yet they still come forward dispite all that and explain their experince, and that to me is enough to make me believe that most of them wouldnt not put their character, their reputation, their jobs, and even their FAMILIES on the line if what they were saying was all made up, and you have to really listen to their story, really listen to how much knowledge they hold, their body language and their tones, you can pretty much weed out the ones that are BS'in and bein truth, the search is the fun for me, the investigating, the questions, its what this topic is really all about... I think if we dig deeper into our past we will find our future but its hard with all the disinformation, cover ups, and hiding of any real truth
Good luck in your search



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Too true SaturnFX some people need to lose the atitude or clear off to another site . I have found ATS to be an enlightening site on many different subjects.

Take the chemtrails subjejct for instance, millions of people are asking quesions about what exactly is comming out of jets, what is it in tose trails, why are our governments covering things up. If they're covering something such as that up what else are they hiding from us. The Ufo, Alien subject is a matter that people should research properly & go into without a set of blinkers on. I know myself that we are not alone in this universe as I have witnessed crafts & even have footage of one over my home town in broad daylight on a Saturday afternoon. It took me weeks before I showed anybody the footage & still had people saying things like "it had to happen to you" "why do you believe in such sh*t, it's a kite" "I think you need to go see your doctor" all the usual things they say to try & stop an enlightened beliver from beliving anymore. Out of all the people I know & talk to most of them are ignorant (they see ignorance as bliss) & will not be pursuaded that our government have lied to us constantly since day dot. The smoking gun of this subject may not reveal itself in our lifetimes but it will surface, I'm giving my son a chance to decide for himself if we are the only living things in the universe or not so that if I'm not around at least he can say "well Dad did tell me about all things & to not be predjudice" To most of my social circle I'm the outsider, the one with strange belifes. When I try to show them that ancient civalisations painted strange crafts, reptilian figures all they can say is "it's all fake, our Queen & country wouldn't lie to us" who are they kidding !! People should leave their attitude at home on their desks when commenting on posts on this site & consider all the factors, weigh up all the pros & cons & make educated decisions. Peace, love & harmony to all



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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so called "Channeling" ridicules the whole topic of extraterrestials...
I came to ATS because of my interest in UFOS, but most of the threads on the topic are just not that great.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by m0r1arty

Originally posted by CJCSuperman
Although I would agree with this, how do you gather any evidence to support your claims???


Evidence, such as photos and video from a suppoed 'sighting' can be doctored.

However if there are enough sources which have verifiable evidence then such a stance as I mentioned earlier would have to take them into account.

The problem is that no such case has yet appeared. There is no UFO 'case' where the evidence allows for the possibility of doubt when it comes to their not being visiting ETs.

I'm all for you teaching your kids what you think is right and getting them to look at all angles and well done to you for doing so. Try to remember though that whilst the physics of your TV of computer might baffle you there are means to verify how it works from many independent sources and that is what evidence can do.

It can show you from people who don't stand anything to gain working together to produce something that benefits us all.

Something the UFO community has yet to produce. Although it's being waited for as well as looked for by our best minds.

-m0r


As far as the physics of the TV and Computer. They can only be proven to me when I go to school and learn how it's done and then BUILD ONE MYSELF OR WATCH IT BE BUILT! I could be told that there are little mice running around inside there making it work and if I just BELIEVED it than that would be my belief. Even though that belief would be wrong, as we all know, it would be my belief NOT a fact that was proven. You need to learn how things are done and then see if it is true before you make CLAIMS. Now CLAIMS are another thing all in itself because they are just that claims. Anyways... I am not saying that I don't believe many things that are taught to me that I have not done myself. This would be a VERY foolish statement. I am just saying that with things like ETs there is NO proof unless you experience something yourself and once you do you won't have the proof people want. You will simply be trying to convince people to BELIEVE YOU.

edit on 1/22/2011 by CJCSuperman because: Hit reply before responding to quote



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by CJCSuperman
 


I'm sure it is just a posting error and I'll re-correct this afterwards if that is the case but you have only quoted me and provided nothing more.

Like I say - I'm sure this is just an error and I'll edit this in reply to what it was you posted when you do.

-m0r



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


That is great that you want to believe.

Now you are encountering the problem many including me have ran into, which is "Why are there so many stupid people claiming to see ufos and not 1 intelligent one that does good records and puts forth an actual case of a good UFO"

Ive determined the problem is that 95% of UFO claims are not worth clicking on, and the 5% of them that are real are not on this website and not posting on some forum telling a group of 1000+ish that could read it.

What can you do? I suggest researching the AAA ancient astern theory, I believe the smoking gun lies within that realm, and not the UFO forums. I myself have researched it enough to come to a logical conclusion that something is happening and has been happening for a very long time that our government does not want us to know, and has proven that they don't want us to know multiple times, and by the fact that disclosure has not happened.

We must not forget that 1000 years ago UFOs and aliens were not a conspiracy but a commonly known fact. Problem is that so was magic and the world being flat ect. this was global, cultures from every continent had the same stories of gods coming down from the skies and doing whatever, which would be the common day UFO report.

The reason Its so obvious to me is because this whole UFO thing is not a new thing, it has been talked about for thousands of years, so it is not some paranoia due to new technology, this fear of aliens was around when we were hunting with spears and hoping the spirits would give us good harvests.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Sometimes, it seems as though the best UFO cases we will ever know have already ocurred, and a long time ago at that! (20+ years in most cases)

And, despite the unprecedented amount of high quality digital cameras and other video recording devices in the hands of so many in the populace today, no new groundbreaking cases have recently emerged. Why?

I recently watched a video called "Best Evidence - Top 10 UFO Sightings" and many of the cases have solid radar data, credible witnesses (although I'm not big on just witness testimony), above normal radiation readings at so-called landing sites, and more.

With the ease with which fakery can be done to produce UFO videos and still images, here are a few parameters I hope for when a sighting becomes known;

• Multiple witnesses (who didn't know each other prior to the sighting) who all recorded the incident on video or still images from various angles.

• Verifiable radar data coinciding with a major sighting.


• EXIF data for still images and original storage media from which to analyze video (memory cards, tape, etc.) prior to being uploaded to computer or edited.

I'm sure there are more parameters just as important (if not more so) but these were just the first few that came to mind.

If ATS is no longer the place to look for quality UFO sightings analysis, where is it being done these days on the Internet? Is this possibly where Phage disappeared to?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I feel the same way.Some of the stuff that pops up on A.T.S. is pretty funny.Makes it hard to take the whole E.T thing seriously,but I suppose you have to sift your way through all the junk in order to find the jewels.Isn't how it's always been when in search of the truth.

Anyway,I doubt we'll be keeping the crazies and attention seekers away.Just one of those things u gotta deal with.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Incidently, I do believe in UFOs...don't have to be worried much there about being wrong. That has been stated offically that they do exist.
The issue is Extraterrestrials. UFOs do not mean ETs.
UFOs could be misidentification of fairly mundane things (balloons, satellites, airplanes, dragons, jupiter, etc).
Could also be new top secret terrestrial military crafts
And as Zorg pointed out, could be a completely different life form that is earth based (plasma amoeba things). that of course is fascinating, but I wouldn't call a big energy amoeba the extraterrestrial I am searching for.

I get a little frustrated when you discuss the alien thing and people start pushing forward UFOs as the questionable thing...UFOs is not questionable..its a simple fact. the question is who is driving (some) of them..that is the mystery.

I want to find the proof of ETs because it makes sense. The bazillions of stars out there, many which have favorable conditions for life -as we know it-, and using a bit of statistical leaps, it seems likely, if not a very safe bet that the galaxys are simply filled with space faring civilizations monitoring and colonizing planets left and right.

I have some theories on why it may be difficult to get hard evidence. One of them being:

Our path alone leads to a potential kurzweilian future...aka, Kaku's type 2-3 civilizations will not exist at all. technology will lead us to become little more than balls of energy able to survive in the void of space so long as there is a bit of starlight now and then to re-energize us. Such an existance would be next to unnoticable by the monkey eyes we have. This would also make the universe seem a bit lonely until we know how to look for advanced life (are we simply looking for other monkey tribes, or something far more advanced)


I don't know. I just want to know the truth, I want the truth to be based in some verifiable evidence, or at least some very credible witness testimony that is backed up and not simply there to sell some books or a good speaking tour to pad retirement.

Why do I want to know? How will it change my personal life? It probably won't to be honest. I will still chase after dollars, want a nice home, watch some television, argue religion with theists, and play games. I think its a worthy human persuit to chase after knowledge for the simple sake of knowing overall..and if it can be used to somehow change or enhance life, great..but that is not the initial desire.

Humans have a desire to know..sometimes to control, sometimes to form a parasite relationship with, but often just to know for some undescribable reason. Its typically that reason alone that drives some of us harder than anything..almost an obsession.

I don't expect aliens to come save us from ourselves...frankly, I would think such actions are irresponsible as a concept. I don't expect aliens to invade and enslave us...I find that even more illogical. I think ultimately disclosure day (if it ever came) will be simply a intellectual "isn't that interesting" and change nothing much beyond perhaps a few new shows, books, and pop culture thinking. I still think its profoundly important to get the truth out though...but how can I suggest truth be let out if I cannot even find the truth in areas that supposed to be designed to truely dig in earnest for the truth (like ATS).

I would really like this board to get tons of more skeptics (not debunkers..debunkers are religious nuts whom cannot think freely). The more skeptics there are here, the more hogwash gets tossed away and the faster a understanding of a potential truth gets uncovered.

and Zorgon:....you think Venus dude is for real? you know in the mid 50s, there was a serious campaign underway for disinformation and trying to make everyone seem totally nuts. Why would you think that story is true verses disinfo

have you seen venus? the place doesn't look very habitable..something about living in magma that raises a skeptical eyebrow (and ya, I know Lear's version of venus with the beautiful lands and how science is lying by saying its a bit hot...he suggests this based on ???)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I don't star here due to increasing site hits (which is the core purpose of starring) but that deserved a star and a half.

Answers shouldn't require some mad belief system - they should be answers; pure and simple.

My wife sometimes ask me why am I asking when I say two sugars? But that's because she varies. The fact the ETs have visited Earth should be concrete - no doubt about it.

By the way, those who think that ETs visit Earth, how many sugars should I give them on the off chance they want coffee?

-m0r



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by RiotComing
 


So what you're saying is I should just bypass any thread titled "Disclosure Imminent". I am not new to ATS but I am new to the whole UFO phenomena since my course of research recently landed me in that domain. I am looking for the truth. I've followed a few leads away from this forum and I have even visited the Natl Archives for FOIA files. I love reading the speculation posted here and when something brings a new question to my mind I leave the forum and search for more information on the subject. I am not getting a slew of information from the posts but I am getting leads and I am learning what questions to ask. I will say this, confirmed or not I am looking up more these days.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 


Ok Sorry off topic. There I said it right up front so the mods wont have to search ... Please, What is a Strawman? I've seen it a few times but the context does not really suggest anything to me.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by unlimited1
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


OK, just base it on science. If things have gotten out of hand, than go back to your basics of history and science.

First of all, your a living proof of Aliens. If you look at your DNA, you stem from many races. Second, your history and your facts, you can find them underwater or above water. Many of the ancients artifacts of human beings from another solar systems are scribed on the egyption walls/plates, sumerian walls/plates, and many others. To find other places, is to go under water to find atlantis, the buildings that had sunk long time ago. You can also go to japan, where lumeria had sunk long time ago.

Honestly, even if we told you or show you the evidence, you may not believe it. So if you want to know the information and clarify it, you will have to begin a journey and search.




You're not really helping our case with this you know. When people start talking about the lost city of Atlantis the skeptics jump all over that. Dont you think that in this day and age we would have found some shred of evidence of its existence. Satellite photos of the earth have shown us a great many things we didnt know about before but they've never shown anything to support the belief in this lost city.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by theguygeeza
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Too true SaturnFX some people need to lose the atitude or clear off to another site . I have found ATS to be an enlightening site on many different subjects.

Take the chemtrails subjejct for instance, millions of people are asking quesions about what exactly is comming out of jets, what is it in tose trails, why are our governments covering things up. If they're covering something such as that up what else are they hiding from us. The Ufo, Alien subject is a matter that people should research properly & go into without a set of blinkers on. I know myself that we are not alone in this universe as I have witnessed crafts & even have footage of one over my home town in broad daylight on a Saturday afternoon. It took me weeks before I showed anybody the footage & still had people saying things like "it had to happen to you" "why do you believe in such sh*t, it's a kite" "I think you need to go see your doctor" all the usual things they say to try & stop an enlightened beliver from beliving anymore. Out of all the people I know & talk to most of them are ignorant (they see ignorance as bliss) & will not be pursuaded that our government have lied to us constantly since day dot. The smoking gun of this subject may not reveal itself in our lifetimes but it will surface, I'm giving my son a chance to decide for himself if we are the only living things in the universe or not so that if I'm not around at least he can say "well Dad did tell me about all things & to not be predjudice" To most of my social circle I'm the outsider, the one with strange belifes. When I try to show them that ancient civalisations painted strange crafts, reptilian figures all they can say is "it's all fake, our Queen & country wouldn't lie to us" who are they kidding !! People should leave their attitude at home on their desks when commenting on posts on this site & consider all the factors, weigh up all the pros & cons & make educated decisions. Peace, love & harmony to all



This is for your son:
discovermagazine.com...


It may not be the life that everyone on here is looking for. IE the kind that "thinks" but it is life and if it happened on two planets. (Earth and Mars) you can bet your bottom dollar that it happened over and over again on many planets. The components of life is the same stuff the universe is made up of.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by digitalf

Originally posted by unlimited1
Honestly, even if we told you or show you the evidence, you may not believe it.

Interesting comment there, show us and let us be the judge


And just like Lucy did to Charlie Brown over and over. Someone will pull that football out of the way so the poster lands on his a$$ with everyone laughing at them.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by truthwilout
reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


Consider for a moment the amount of collective "evidence" that exists on various forums and media covering the topics of UFO's and ET's. Thousands of still photographs, videos, eye witness testimony, books, etc. Yet we still have those who truly believe and or believe that there is something "out there"; and non-believers/skeptics. I believe there are two possible "events" that will end this debate once and for all move this from the realm of the possible or impossible to absolute fact.

One, a major "disclosure" event occurs sponsored by the various government's around the world releasing their collective knowledge and evidence to the public. If UFO's and ET's do in fact exist, this will most likely never happen until circumstances change and this "disclosure" benefits their agenda, whatever that agenda may be. Otherwise this "disclosure" event would have occured already.

Two, an event occurs on a massive scale that is witnessed by millions of people. It must be an event so massive that is broadcast and publicized by thousands of media resource's: news channels, newspapers, radio shows, etc. Use the events in movies such as "Signs" and "Independence Day" as a template if you will.

Until one of these two events occurs, we are going to stuck with the same old scenarios: evidence or hoax, credible witness or crackpot. In the meantime, enjoy the debate. Laugh at the videos that are obvious hoax attempts, and ponder the "evidence" that seems credible. After all, the debate itself is part of what makes us "human".....


I think # 2 is the more convincing event. #1 Thats the same government that people believe are keeping them in the dark, making stuff up, falsifiying documents and making them look the other way remember. The gov't wont convince the skeptics. They're sure the govt is full of it.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Illustronic
I believe that beings would have to break our known laws of physics to ever have visited us, and I don't mean to imply that our known scientific knowledge is all there is to know.

I'm under the impression that deep space travel by living beings would have to be their permanent existence, and never populating any rock orbiting a star. For the amount of time it would take to find any habital(I know not a word)–no strike that, any solid solar orbiting object to step foot on without disintegrating, would have to have been born and lived their entire lives on a spacecraft and eventually after many generations in travel would be all they know of existence.

I'm not convinced those who believe in alien visitation really understand the distances involved and what happens to matter as it approaches light speed, and even if one can travel light speed one wouldn't get very far through a single galaxy in their lifetime, and most likely could never return from where they left to start with.

It violates everything we are able to observe that we know, and most of what we know we have yet to find a way to actually demonstrate, which to means it doesn't pass the Scientific Method to ever reach even our closest celestial neighbors, let alone ones that may have planets in the zone that can support liquid water, atmosphere, and the all important magnetosphere, which is absent on say, Mars.

Our own science will support the possibility of time travel. einsteins theory of relativity did just that. We may not have the technology to do that ourselves but since the possibility possitivly exists another civilization with more technology then us would be capable. The ability to use the curvature of space means that many of those vast miles are traversed in very little time. I certainly understand the distances involved but those distances mean very little with the right technology and it doesnt mean traveling at the speed of light.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


If YOU believe, then don't worry about all the "bad" ET threads on ATS. Because the majority are.
But if you're willing to let that stop you from searching through to the good threads or doing research on your own, then sir, I question your resolve.



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