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I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

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posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by fleabit
 




OP, your thread doesn't logically make a lot of sense. What does anyone's belief system have to do with alien visitation, whatsoever?


I will answer that one. Not too long ago, I saw an ET craft in the sky above our little town in southern Ohio. I watched it, so did two neighbors. The next day I related this to my other neighbor, a stanch Christin woman, who proceeded to tell me that it was "Satan's Demons" coming to get the sinners in the town. I asked her what she would do if they landed. She told me she would shoot them, and kill them, for demons are what they are. Glad I am way more enlightened that that.



Something that I get a little worried about...People demonizing or deifying any aliens that might possibly be visiting or living here. I've seen threads on ATS about aliens being demons and if enough people think that way or are swayed in their thinking by hollywood movies showing aliens out to destroy us, if or when they decide to show themselves a lot of people are going to panic and get hurt. Then there are the ones who think that maybe these are the "Gods" of the past and will set up a relegion dedicated to them. I do believe in God but I dont think that the aliens are gods. I think they are just more of "us". Maybe they dont look like us or think like us but I bet they are carbon based like us and had similar evolutionary processes to get to where they are today.
P.S. Dont relegious people usually take care of a demon through exorcisim and prayer? Never heard of shooting one to get rid of it LOL.




posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by SurReality
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Ya know what, i guess you're right!

Sorry, It's just frustrating for me when i have seen amazing, unexplainable things and am constantly told it's impossible. Just like it's frustrating when i bring anything up to my friends or family that could be a topic on this site and they don't give me the time of day...

So i'm sorry for acting childish! I am only 20 though!

Sorry again,
Dan


Dan
You will find that there are alot of mindsets on ATS, but most of us here are indeed here to find out the truth behind the matter..not just win sarcasm points.
Eventually you want to find out the facts of a matter, and so will go on a journey to toss aside things that are either nonsense, or simply cannot be proven one way or another.

Here is a good example. Long ago, I was watching the skys. I was seeing all sorts of "UFOs" flying around every night. it amazed me. I came here and posted it. Some people said I was seeing ET.
After that, some skeptics questioned me about exactly what it was. I then learned what I was seeing was satellites and was confused by how it seemed to go fast overhead, then slow as it was in the distance (distance, curvature of the earth, etc).

Although I "lost" my nightly UFO watching, I gained a bit of truth. Now whenever I see someone posting such experiences (truely noticing satellites for the first time), I ask questions, then I put up what I have learned to have them also conclude what I concluded. Often they are thankful, sometimes they are simply angry at me robbing them of their "ufo's".

the faster a skywatcher knows what to dismiss as being nothing of great value, the faster they can look for truely interesting stuff that cannot be simply a satellite, a flock of birds, etc.

And I give you props on giving a honest apology. 20 years old and already learning a bit of wisdom and self control.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Although I "lost" my nightly UFO watching, I gained a bit of truth. Now whenever I see someone posting such experiences (truely noticing satellites for the first time), I ask questions, then I put up what I have learned to have them also conclude what I concluded. Often they are thankful, sometimes they are simply angry at me robbing them of their "ufo's".

the faster a skywatcher knows what to dismiss as being nothing of great value, the faster they can look for truely interesting stuff that cannot be simply a satellite, a flock of birds, etc.

And I give you props on giving a honest apology. 20 years old and already learning a bit of wisdom and self control.


This is something I've noticed very often, especially on this site.

The skeptics are gone, because they've been demonized due to affecting the ability to delude ones self and maintain the mystery. If a believer is allowed to skirt the truth, and never needs to face it, he can continue to morph the idea that's growing in his head that whatever he's seen/experienced is something extraordinary. Because if it's not something extraordinary, it's just something ordinary, and who wants to be caught trying to turn that into something special?

So, you have many (not all) believers flat out denying simple explanations to so many of the subjects of threads here (in many cases actually openly mocking by adding their "ha ha it must be swamp gas ha ha" comments). It's unfortunate that the skeptics were so railed against, because now so many of the most helpful and intelligent of them are gone, and this sort of behavior is becoming the general theme of the forums.

I'm not attempting to flame anyone or get anyone upset, but this is how I see things here. These forums have never been further from denying ignorance than they are right now.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 
Thank you Karen61057, an interesting read all be it a short read. I have saved that page to show my son Winston when he is old enough to read it properly & appreciate it. I had read some reports of those findings on various websites around the time they were published & i'm sure there may have been threads on here about such too. I've bet my bottom dollar (well pound) on there being other life out there right from the start, well since my early childhood anyway. I'm sure also that there must be life that is as intelligent if not more so than us, wether or not they are bothering visiting such a self destructive race such as ours remains to be proven/disclosed.
Thank you for taking time out to reply to my reply, honour & respetcs & may peace & harmony be with you





posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thanks a lot for the compliment.

Looking back at your OP I realized that one of your points was how some people claim anything they see in the sky to be a UFO or of extraterrestrial nature, which IS very annoying.

On the other hand,there were 2 times i have seen something in the sky that i really have no explanation for, and doubt anyone else would either. For instance, i saw a red orb just hovering in the night sky take off and make a loop before shooting off into the darkness. It was clear to me that it was no satellite or shooting star because of the way it moved.

I consider myself one of the lucky ones that has been able to see such an amazing event!

And if i didn't see what i saw, i'd probably be just as skeptical and unsure as you are.

But again, thanks for giving me the time of day! Much appreciated.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 



I do believe in God but I dont think that the aliens are gods.


Greetings to you Karen. I too believe in God, and a Goddess, but not the one in the Bible. Having read a gret deal about the Sumerians and the Annunaki, who are said to have created these human bodies, and their stories make more sense that the Bible does, and for good reason too, several stories in the OT were ripped off from the Sumerians. Many call their writings, all in cuneiform, false and made up, but hey, these ancient people, the very first civilization every in this cycle, were simply recording the history, and what they saw, and experienced. So, to sum up, I went off on a tangent here, the biblical Gods (there are many in there) were ETs, Annunaki, but there is a real God/Goddess, and it is not describable, or knowable, it just is, and it is within us all.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Hi..

To me its not wanting to beleive,,but my own intuition on my feelings,,,


Kinda funny also,,,our own goverment military has craft top secret that are like UFO's,,,its very well known that they do,,,,they can move a 5 mph at a 100 yards up from the ground,,,,quite large also,,,(they have to be anti gravitational)and fast if need be,,,(not light speed of course but if they can stop on a dime and do a 360 or do 90 degree turns this is quite a threat to any air power on this planet???

As of now we cant prove ghost's or hautings are real also,,,,(I myself its not wanting but just the facts of it,,maybe not facts but un amswerd undeniable aspects of it)

To me its not wanting to beleive,,,ITS JUST THERE....

May not be a fleet of ships around our planet but just several,,,,,(maybe none?,,),,,I myslf beleive this though not wanting but from credit'd reports,,,
(98% of the reports i dont buy,,,but the 2 % make me think,,,)

ET's and ghost are or could be one of the same....

Kinda weird also,,I bet ET's know more about ghosts than we do?????

what has hurt(hampered is the better word) the UFO community is the top secret craft we have now,,,being tested...imagine a little droid craft the size of a car that could attack any air craft and summer sualt and 360 to destroy it,,,and a 1/3rd of the caust$$$,,,or a dozen type anti graviatational craft that could destroythe worlds air force,,,

We are being blankented now on whats what,,,or whats going on...

What gets me,,sorry on this,,,,,,,is those who dont beleive on life after death or a dream state or ghost???

life after death is a dream state I think somewhat,,,,,i think???

I think i did some damage here but I understand your thread friend so sorry if I got off topic...(a few percent),,

smile

Kona



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Millions
 


I completely agree with the comment that we are at the stage where any strange sighting could just as easily be some new secret technology being tried out as some extra-terrestrial apparition. I just read a book
(See adisruptiveinvention.com...) which describes how a new flying vehicle was developed which was round, had four bumps on the underside and a huge array of bright lights underneath. In the story it was quickly made secret and swallowed up into the Redstone Arsenal where it was developed and subsequently tested at Area 51. Everything was so realistic that I really wonder if this has actually happened. Ufofan



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
reply to post by Immortalgemini527
 

After my encounter I found out a lot of things in my opinion.

1. By looking at the side of the triangle from the angle I was in and it was many, a lot of people that say that they witnessed a tube shape UFO was only looking at either the left or the right side of a flying triangle space ship from a certain angle.

2. I found out first hand that those 3 lights are not lights but 3 separate engines, engines that can be turned off and on separately at will.
[U turn the left engine on and turn the right engine off u can make one of the hardest left turns imaginable vice versa] I believe this is the reason for there highly scientific control power they have as far as flying and the maneuvers they do.

3. Now I realized why it was such a quest to build the pyramids I think the Egyptians was trying to build exactly what they saw that day, a flying pyramid/triangle.
================================================================================

And 4. I honestly think in my opinion that flying saucers never existed.. why?

Because looking at that triangle it broke ALLLLLL barriers to what people have been seeing every since..
The first big cover up in the HISTORY OF UFOLOGY .
THE FLYING TRIANGLE
The very first flying triangle was reported by a man named Kenneth Arnold but the government quickly stepped in and called the Triangle> “flying saucers” and for over 60 some years , ALL WITNESSES in the world have only and will ever see the triangle as the only ufo in the worlds air space.

1 engine turned on = omg I saw a flying saucer
2 engines turned on=omg I saw 2 saucers flying with each other or probes
3 engines turned on = omg I just saw a triangle space ship
1 engine turned on and turns off = omg the saucer was flying then it dissapereared
2 engines turned on and turns off= omg the saucers was flying and then they just disappeared.
3 engines turned on and turned off = the triangle was there then it went into hyper speed and disappeared.

2 triangles 6 engines ,some engines are off and some are on= omg I just saw multiple saucers flying and some was disappearing and some were appearing.
==================================================================================
Summary: The modern phenomena of UFOs and “flying saucers” began in Washington state on June 24, 1947, when Kenneth Arnold spotted nine mysterious, high-speed objects “flying like a saucer would” along the crest of the Cascade Range near Mount Rainier. His report made international headlines and triggered hundreds of similar accounts of “flying saucers” locally and across the nation.
They were flat and rather heel-shaped, very shiny, and they moved erratically, like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water." You can see Arnold's drawing of what he saw here. Arnold estimated their size at about two-thirds that of a DC-4, and he calculated their speed at over 1500 mph by timing their travel between two mountain peaks of known distance.

like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.
like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.
like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.

They took the word saucer and disrespected and disregarded what he actually described and what he also drew,that day to me was the first big cover up in the history of ufoology.

In my opinoin the triangle has and will always be the only ufo in the world.
please look up kenneth arnold and determine your self..by the way roswell happened 2 weeks after the arnold incident.





Why turn off any of the engines? Why not utilize all three engines to maneuver the craft? Wouldn't the craft have to maintain stability? That's really hard to do when there are uneven forces involved. What looks to be engine flameout could be the result of nozzle rotation.

Ever work an air vent above your seat on a commercial fight? It might be a lot like that.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


If you are really interested in the subject, don't get your information from ATS. You are wasting your time. If you haven't read the following, then you have some catching up to do:

The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry - by J. Allen Hynek
Anatomy of a Phenomenon - by Jacques Vallee
The UFO Evidence - edited by Richard Hall
The UFO Controversy in America - by David Jacobs
UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record - by Leslie Kean
Science in Default: Twenty-Two Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations - by James E. McDonald

If you're looking to sift through tons of garbage and find relatively little decent information, you've come to the right place. Sorry ATS, but it's true.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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Basicly ATS and much of the amateur UFO scene is victum of it self.
To many poeple WANT to believe but do not track evidence and as a result they start believeing thins that aren't true or baseless. I am going to make a lot of enemies right now; Greys, Reptillians, Pleiadians and Annunaki are by no means beings that actually exist or visit Earth. When you sift through the tons and tons of crap, half facts and misinterpretations you will find out that all of those creatures are based on nothing actual. People just want them to exist.

By now, many people that treid to reason and point out that those beings existence were baseless have seized; they aren't being listned at and unproven evidence is build upon unproven evidence as if it's foujndation was a fact while it is not. So soceity shuns people that 'want to believe' into the tin foil hat group.

The persistence to believe in such 'stuff' is not only causing ufologist to be ridiculed, it also causes them to be exploited on every turn. People capitalise heavily on groups of ufologist that believe in greys or other beings. Why? Groups that believe in greys, reptillians or other 'races' want to see their believes confirmed so they tend to give every stick thrown at them a try, even if it will cost them. When that stick turns out to be a fraud they just grap back upon other stories they have decided to take on as 'truth'.

Do not expect this to end, it will continue like this and if anything; THAT will be a big reason for REAL sentient alien races to avoid us, because of the heavy load of gullible people that believe in fictional races without listening to reason. Thou that group will probably flip it around and say I'm not listening to reason and closing myself of from the thruth....predictable.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


i'm gonna be honest i read the title of the thread and immediately wanted to make it known that it's not jus those who embrace the whole alien concept that make the whole genre look like abunch of wackos

but christians do that to their own religion! like they preach all this love but when u actually come across those same people there hate mongering people like if u dont dress like them and act jus like they do ur the devil plain and simple

sorry but people need individualism yes we do need oneness but the only way it'd work and get people to accept it is if ur still u at the end of the day u still do the things that u want to do like wearing metal shirts or w/e u know!

jus let me be me ur u and now lets help build a better world!

but christians are not this way! one pentagram makes them nervous and all it represents are the elements thats they worship so u know ignorance makes u run the other direction!



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Little_Kona
Hi..

To me its not wanting to beleive,,but my own intuition on my feelings,,,

Dangerous to follow feelings when seeking truth. If it was just feelings that make or break things, I feel I should be very wealthy, I feel like I should be stuck at 20 years old, I feel that Megan Fox would totally fall in love with me if given a 10 minute conversation..
aka, my feelings = my desire, and often do not meet reality.


Kinda funny also,,,our own goverment military has craft top secret that are like UFO's,,,its very well known that they do,,,,

Although I -don't- doubt that may be true, I ask..how do you know?
If its top secret, then its...well, a secret, isn't it. unless you personally were given a tour of a military base and shown it, then all you have is the word of some potentially misleading whistleblowers (most of which sell books and get nice cushy paid speaking tours)
Revealing top secret info = prison. Look at whatshisname whom supplied just secret and classified docs to wikileaks..he is now sitting in prison. So, you should question the authenticity of peoples claims before believing whatever they say.


What gets me,,sorry on this,,,,,,,is those who dont beleive on life after death or a dream state or ghost???

life after death is a dream state I think somewhat,,,,,i think???

I am open to the discussion, I may even entertain a few ideas..but I don't "know" what life after death is, or if there is anything. I speculate like anyone else, but until some hard evidence is presented, then really, whats the point in truely believing. Its based purely on speculation and some events that may be completely misunderstood.
If there is something after, well, we will experience it. no pre-determined set in stone belief required.
If you seek it out of curiousity though, a true desire to know exactly what happens, then the first step is to dismiss things you can dismiss, then start from there and try to gather as much facts as possible.


I think i did some damage here but I understand your thread friend so sorry if I got off topic...(a few percent),,

smile
Kona


Nope, you are just curius and clearly have some thoughts on the subject..perhaps struggling a bit with belief. who knows, but isn't that what life is about anyhow.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


lol.
Great, more bloody books to read


ATS is home to a bunch of information (alot of it junk, but there are jewels to be found amid the rubble). Also, I am getting a few interesting U2Us with some guidance for digging up interesting stuff. not sure what to make of it...
so, with the U2U's, the books suggested, and research, I think I successfully have planned away the next 50 years of my life.

-shakes fist at people-

Seriously...one of you out there must be a high level agent of a major government...just u2u me, send me some confirmation of your identity (I can keep a secret), and just give me a yes or no already!

-wahts to get to the end verses run the marathon



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by AncientShade
Basicly ATS and much of the amateur UFO scene is victum of it self.
To many poeple WANT to believe but do not track evidence and as a result they start believeing thins that aren't true or baseless. I am going to make a lot of enemies right now; Greys, Reptillians, Pleiadians and Annunaki are by no means beings that actually exist or visit Earth. When you sift through the tons and tons of crap, half facts and misinterpretations you will find out that all of those creatures are based on nothing actual. People just want them to exist.


Reptilians are historical symbols that became a fabrication of pop sci-fi and fringe thinkers (perhaps influenced by pop sci-fi). There is no evidence beyond the general quackery of people like Icke and the like (and even Icke is subtly trying to move away from that lately into more of a "powerful familys" NWO thing verses skinjobs).

Plejarians, Pleadians, whatever...they are the fabrications of Billy Miers based loosely off angels. Of course only he can ever talk to him...the cult grew and people wanted to cash in...total fakery, yet, out of all the potential aliens, those would be the ones I would want to be real (something about stunning looking nordic women that makes me want to check out their space ships).

Annunaki (Anu) is a historical sanskrit misinterpretation (possibly) by Sichen. This teeters on the ancient aliens discussion, which I do believe has some merit in investigating. I wouldn't write that off just yet, but I wouldn't dare start considering it as simply fact.

Grays are certainly not something people want to have around, if the storys are correct about them being emotionless automatons. I keep a open mind for them however, too many people from all around the world and in all recorded time have witnessed similar events. More facts are needed.

I keep a open mind about all of it, I do however seek after evidence of anything mentioned...if I found a strong argument for plejarians, then great...lets falsify what we got and see what stands...but for now, there is nothing much standing in that area...not even enough to want more facts.

Speculation and storys are great. Accounts from strangers is fantastic to entertain the notion of, its when such things start getting mixed into the vat of investigation is when things go downhill and start to color the serious desire to find truth into all sorts of crazy.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Reptilians are historical symbols that became a fabrication of pop sci-fi and fringe thinkers (perhaps influenced by pop sci-fi). There is no evidence beyond the general quackery of people like Icke and the like


Well there is one Ancient reference to a Reptilian that has influence millions of people for over 2000 years...

Eve spoke to a Reptilian in the garden that fateful day. She spoke to it like it was a common thing to speak to a reptile, no sign of shock... So if you look at it that way, don't forget that the Reptilian gave us Knowledge, a thing that was being withheld by the PTB of the day



Information is Relative

"Reality is Merely an Illusion, Albeit a very Persistant One" - Albert Einstein



Pleadians, whatever... ...yet, out of all the potential aliens, those would be the ones I would want to be real (something about stunning looking nordic women that makes me want to check out their space ships).


Well long before Billy popped in, we had those nordic looking women visiting, but back then they were saying they came from Venus... perhaps they didn't want to sound too Alien


Valient Thor and his brother and sister 1959



Howard Menger... who told us what the color of the sky was like on the Moon.. had a visitor from Venus



And don't forget George Adamski...



Yeah yeah I know all "quacks'"

edit on 24-1-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye
The skeptics are gone, because they've been demonized due to affecting the ability to delude ones self and maintain the mystery.


Well on the other hand, certain famous skeptics would spend hours posting in those silly youtube UFO threads and yet you would rarely see them participate in a good thread that was basically un debunkable. So why is that? Did they feel a need to 'educate' those in the silly threads?

I recall the missile in Calif. vs Airplane threads. I recall Phage spending hour after hour trying to push the airplane. I myself spent a few days in there supporting him... but in the end I realized it was impossible.

Why?

Because the main stream News media pushed the missile angle. Idiots in the Pentagon and retired military people said "It was a missile for sure" and even some in service said "Yup it's a missile"

If the media or an official sole up and said "It was an airplane" well then they were obviously lying, or covering it up

If they said it was a missile, they must be telling the truth
You can't win

You cannot fight such madness. It still hasn't been solved today, though it has quieted down


Being a skeptic is fine, but what do you accomplish by endless arguments over endless silly fake UFO's? The very act of trying to debunk them just keeps the thread alive.
edit on 24-1-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by Phantom traveller
 


Its my belief that believers and seekers should constantly challenge and debunk "believers" (not the quotes). The faster the idiots and pushers of fantasy get ejected from this and tossed into a religion, the better for both partys.


I have a certain knoweledge on the subject,so when someone comes out with a story,before i dismiss it,i ask questions.As for the "UFO" videos-pics some are sooooo obvious of what they are,that i cannot waste my time.

reply to post by SurReality
 


Yep there are some pretty good stuff in there



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thank you. My point exactly. I think perhaps what we "see" on our planet and what we take for "granted" on a daily basis, may prevent us from recognizing them if, when the come (or came).

Its always assumed they "fly", "travel" and "warp" around in vehicles that are solid, round, triangular, cigar shaped etc...all shapes. Perhaps they have no shapes, and dont travel in any solid or even invisible crafts of any kind we'd recognize.

Maybe they move in dimensions or thought processes? Clouds? As fish or birds?

Someone once mentioned that since there are a "ka-zillion" insects and animals and fish on this planet.....maybe THEY are the dominant species, not us?



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by hybridkate
 


Such as? Any links to your overwhelming 'evidence' or is being confronted with the wonder of your hybrid essence supposed to suffice?

I would like to believe, too, but too many trolls, children and disinfo agents are gumming up the works. Lots of blather but no real 'evidence'



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