Originally posted by instar
LMAO I think its your mind thats clouded, with anti death penalty zeal!
Is that so? Well then by all means, offer a valid argument as to why you think so.
You have consistantly and deliberatly failed to address my questions directly, instead choosing to quote me out of context and do you best to
paint me as delusional and yourself the wise expert.
Please present me with what you're referring to here.
You even go so far as to deliberatly and childishly insult me because you cannot directly answer questions put to you, this just shows your
frustration.
Really? Please provide an explanation of this claim.
I have asked you numerous times the same question and you are still refusing to answer directly.
What's the question again? How to improve the system? Well I've repeatedly told you that I don't claim to have all the answers, so why should I
blurt out uninformed suggestions? I have also thouroghly argued as to why when posed whith the choises of capital punishment and life imprisonment as
a manner of punishment the former simply doesn't make any sense and the arguments used by the pro death penalty crowd are quite often based on pure
ignorance of this issue.
Furthermore - and now I'm seriously starting to doubt that you're actually reading my posts - I've stated the following:
Originally posted by Durden
Personally, I also think a lot more can be done preemptively, through working with troubled youths and their environment so as to reduce crime and
violent behavior before it becomes an actual threat to society and/or themselves.
Originally posted by instar
you prefer to simply rehash the same statements you have already made while avoiding any input of your own outside what you have already
said.
What exactly is it you feel I'm avoiding?
You dont like the death penalty
True. I don't. And if you've actually read my posts you should realize the reasons for this position.
you prefer incarceration
Correct. Considering the facts on this issue, incarceration is definitely to be preferred over capital punishment.
you agree incarceration does not deter
That is false. I've never said to agree that incarceration doesn't at all deter. What I
have agreed on is that despite such punishments we
still have problems with crimes. So admittedly, it doesn't deter in
all cases. It is however clearly more effective than capital punishment.
And without the obvious risk of executing innocents.
The ultimate goal of criminal justice is clearly to make sure crime rate is kept as low as possible. Evidence show that the effects of capital
punishment provides the opposite when compared to life imprisonment. When this fact is considered then by any rational logic, capital punishment
simply can't in any way be justified.
you state the reason for incarceration as deterance and protection of society at its own expense
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Please elaborate.
you consider anything outside of incarceration as cruel and unusual
Did I say so? I think not.
you dont consider incarceration itself cruel and unusual, even on death row
If you don't realize how ridiculous and quite frankly
false this claim is then all I have to say is: calm down and
carefully read my
posts.
you agree the death penalty is too expensive because of the fact it takes so long under your system
Under
my system? Are you being serious now? Please educate yourself as to why the system is shaped the way it is...k? You can read about it
briefly in my posts.
you beleive in rehabilitation for scum
Yes. And in cases where these dangerous individuals doesn't respond to the treatment available to date, we should no doubt keep them confined and off
the streets. We should however absolutely not attempt to solve such problems by legalized murder.
you refuse to suggest any alternative to the current system which you acknowledge as failing.
Again. Carefully read my posts.
you refuse to suggest any idea of your own regards what "will" deter crime
See above.
you refuse to elaborate on any idea you may have about how to rehabilitate said scum
Again. Why would I make uninformed suggestions as to the actual manner of preferred treatment of said individuals? Treatment of dangerous individuals
is not my area of expertice, so what is the point of me making such suggestions? That just doesn't make any sense.
you claim moral objection to the death penalty yet offer no suggestion of how society might prevent these scum from existing in the first place
Yet again. Read my posts.
you offer no opinion of why these scum commit crime nor insight into their mentality, which you must understand since you beleive they can be
rehabilitated, that might lead to a way to rehabilitate them.
This is really getting tedious. Why do you feel the need to resort to complete nonsense? Nowhere have I stated to have the knowledge that all
individuals can be treated based on what can be done to date, actually I've stated the contrary. And yet again, I've also said that in cases where
said individuals doesn't respond to treatment, we should definitely keep them confined and off the streets.
You selectivly choose to ignore certain text within replys for which you seem unable to formulate response.
Elaborate, please.
As I stated several post back, you simply shout "nay" from the window of your ivory tower, and when when asked to give ideas you cite again
and again the same statistics, nothing new, no constructive input to the issue, yet you attemp to paint an image of your dissenters as uninformed
idiots, and of their suggestions as "nonsense".
Again, read my replies. Also, like I've previously stated, the topic of this thread is whether capital punishment should be considered cruel and
unusual. My opinion is that it
is. If you're interested in my reasoning, simply read my posts in this thread. It's right there.
If there is anything in particular about my argument that you feel you disagree with, then by all means state why you feel this way and provide an
argument explaining your reasoning.
You and I can go no further with this issue under these circumstances Durden, So I'll leave it at that while we remain relativly civil. cheers
Under what circumstances? What exactly is the problem here? Please dispute my arguments if you feel they lack logic or sound reasoning. Also, I have
no reason to feel this discussion should have to be anything less than civil. This is a discussion on opinions; nothing else. I have no quarrel with
you - I merely disagree with you on this issue.
[edit on 15-12-2004 by Durden]
