Originally posted by instar
Can you explain why you think thats the case? folk think , if i kill someone, ill die, so i might aswell kill someone? I cant agree with that. folk
dont kill folk because the punishment is the same as the crime.
You want an explanation for my reasoning? I'm going to have to rehash what's been thoroughly covered earlier in this thread here...
Actually evidence supports my argument:
When comparisons are made between states with the death penalty and states without, the majority of death penalty states show murder rates
higher than non-death penalty states. The average of murder rates per 100,000 population in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5, whereas the
average of murder rates among non-death penalty states was only 3.6.
A look at neighboring death penalty and non-death penalty states show similar trends. Death penalty states usually have a higher murder rate than
their neighboring non-death penalty states.
The following figures exclude Kansas and New York, which adopted the death penalty in 1994 and 1995 respectively. If these states are included in
their proper categories, the results are even more dramatic:
As executions rose, states without the death penalty fared much better than states with the death penalty in reducing their murder rates. The gap
between the murder rate in death penalty states and the non-death penalty states grew larger (as shown in Chart II). In 1990, the murder rates in
these two groups were 4% apart. By 2000, the murder rate in the death penalty states was 35% higher than the rate in states without the death
penalty. In 2001, the gap between non-death penalty states and states with the death penalty again grew, reaching 37%. For 2002, the number stands
at 36%. (1)
And here is even more recent information on murder rates in the U.S. (including New York and Kansas): Average of murder rates among death penalty
states per 100,000 population in 2002: 5.2
. Average of murder rates among non-death penalty states in 2002: 2.8
And to quote what I've presented earlier in this thread:
Originally posted by Durden
Furthermore, there is no evidence supporting the use of capital punishment as a more successful deterrent than life imprisonment. According to
Uniform Crime Reports (annually, 1980-89), during the 80's, death-penalty states in the US annually averaged a rate of 7.5 criminal homicides
per 100,000 of populaiton whereas the average rate of states abolishing death penalty was 7.4 (3).
In another comparison, according to data released by the British Home Office, US murder rate greatly exceeds European non-death penalty nations (4).
In certain cases, capital punishment may even be an incitement to acts of criminal violence. There is also evidence pointing to death-penalty states
having an increased rate of homicide when executions are carried through. According to "Deterrence of Brutalizaition," by Bowers and Pierce in
Crime & Delinquency (1980), in New York, between 1907 and 1964, 692 individuals were executed. In this 57-year period, one or more executions on a
given month resulted in an increase of two homicides being commited the following month (5).
Originally posted by instar
I bet if you knew you would face being a human guineapig, you would think twice before killing someone (unless you beleived you wopuld not be
Again this reasoning essentially supports the use of torture in an effort to deter crime. If you don't see the problem with such a heinous manner of
punishment, well then there is really nothing I can tell you.
Again, if you dont beleive thats the way to go, then whats your idea for improvement ? how can you possibly deter crime without harsh
You argue the issue in clinical manner from the moral highground, thats good, however, victims of these scumbags, infact most of society i
think, certainly wont give a toss about morals because human emotion comes into it, its unavoidable if your child is raped and murdered by some scum,
very few will will hold your veiws when it becomes personal, including yourself, i beleive, and if thats not the case with you, im very impressed
you've managed to grow above base human emotion, this must make you almost a diety.
It is a mistake to believe that all murder victims share the feeling that they cannot rest until the perpetrator of a heinous crime is executed. And
I'll once again rehash what's been stated earlier as to what was said by a famous victim of heinous crimes, Coretta Scott King:
"As one whose husband and mother-in-law have died the victims of murder assassination, I stand firmly and unequivocally opposed to the death
penalty for those convicted of capital offenses. An evil deed is not redeemed by an evil deed of retaliation. Justice is never advanced in the tacking
of a human life. Morality is never upheld by a legalized murder."
Also don't make the mistake of believing capital punishment can be used as support and/or treatment of surviving victims. That is a completely
Personally, I admit to be a type of person who initially would probably want retribution. If I caught the perpetrator at that moment, I'd probably
also take care of it myself. However, I would not
want to live in a society which promotes the act of murder - absolutely not.
once more.........do you care to toss about a few ideas of your own? thats what the forum is for afterall. If you can come up with a solution
that the masses will accept, that will work, and hold the moral highground to boot, then id love to hear it.
I don't see what you think I'm going to tell you here as I've already stated my points and why I feel the way I do on this issue. I also didn't
notice the "state your brand new fail-safe ideas on treatment of dangerous criminals" in the thread-title.
I think the actual topic was whether
capital punishment should be considered cruel and unusual.
But again, evidence shows that capital punishment not only is ineffective as a deterrent but actually very much the contrary. (1,2) It also shows that
capital punishment as a practice is far more expensive than life imprisonment. (7) Isn't it logical to make sure that crime rate be kept as low as
possible? Or are you willing to accept the additional increased
homicidal rate as a consequence of acting on blood thirst and a need for
violent retaliation? And we haven't even touched the problem of innocents being executed or the inconsistency in which the practice is applied.
The "victims" of the death penalty are scum, who robbed innocent folk of their dignaty and their lives.
Yes i think the death penalty is justified for these scum. yes indeed. Of course you beleive "we should pay" to keep these scum alive and fed. I
say they forfeited their human rights when they violate the human rights of others. I resent my tax dollars paying for their food and medical
Well first off, thinking that the argument against capital punishment arises from some misplaced sympathy for convicted killers is nothing but a
complete misinterpretation of the argument. Actually it is very much the contrary; the act of murder is a demonstration of a lack of respect for human
life. Which is why murder is and should be considered abhorrent which would also make state-authorized murder immoral.
Until such time as a utopia without such crimes exist, we need the death penalty to prevent re-offence. too many get parole from bleeding
heart authorities and go out and rape and kill again.
Again. Life without possibility of parole would solve this problem - without the negative aspects of capital punishment.
But until you can come up with a plan for such utopia, I say they should be giving something tangible back to the society, not just their
absence from it. I do not beleive
that the likes of these scum can ever "see the light" and be rehabilitated.
And giving something 'tangible' back would be to have them murdered right back?
If the death penalty wont deter, then what will? lets here some ideas please.
What you should be asking is if capital punishment shows to not deter but actually increase
the murder rate where it is retained as opposed to
where it's abolished - should it still be kept as a practice?
IMO, capital punishment is a relic of a time when torture, slavery, witch-hunts and other barbaric practices were common. Such practices should
absolutely have no place whatsoever in a civilized society.
(1) Source of stats: FBI Uniform Crime Statistics (2002) presented here
(2) FBI Uniform Crime Statistics for 2002 (Published October, 2003)
(6) Speech to National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty, Washington, D.C., September 26, 1981.
(7) Information on Costs of the Death Penalty From DPIC
[edit on 14-12-2004 by Durden]