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14-Year-Old Boy Shoots Own Dad And Grandma

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:10 PM
Somebody call an exorcist.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:19 PM
reply to post by PoorFool

You know you might be on to something there the way i see it the kid had issues with his parents from the mug shot picture the father looks like he has some mental problems, well not to mention his grandaunt and grandmother to me they both look like as if they had issues in this shot.

Maybe the kid killed his parents because of child abuse in the past?

There were some cases like this in the past, where the kid killed the parent because of child abuse.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:22 PM
It's all the sh** they put in our food and water.It makes people do bad things and creates chaos allowing the "order out of chaos" ploy to be implemented.

All the sex and violence you see on TV creates sex and violence..monkey see monkey do.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:24 PM
I'm only a bit older than him, and I use to always think about killing my dad to get away from him, but I could never bring myself to do it though and I'm glad, 'cause it probably would've ruined my life. Parents aren't always "parents" and sometimes the state doesn't want to help you get away, maybe he saw killing them as the only way out or maybe he didn't mean to kill them, maybe he was sleep waking or something like that? 'Cause I know that type of stuff can happen.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:35 PM
Why does a 14 year old kid need a rifle? This is as much the fault of the father as it is the kid's.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:38 PM
I just can't get beyond the fact that all three were head shots...that's just....overwhelmingly shocking. He obviously had their deaths in mind. Crazy

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:55 PM
reply to post by Jinglelord

Even if it happened a million times, I still wouldn't consider it a social issue, only because when the population grows like it is in a world of 6+ billion, just as there are going to be the majority of rational minded individuals, there are going to be an absurd amount of people with issues who do commit heinous acts of violence like the Tuscon shooting and now this incident.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 08:58 PM
reply to post by Somehumanbeing

I had a rifle at 12 the legal age to hunt here in Michigan. Ya it was the dads fault...Seriously?

To the Op.. I have often wondered myself.. Do people have an audiable snap? Or does there brain just silently switch paradigms and suddenly its ok? I pray I never KNOW or else would that make me capable? I tell you one thing. Nothing anyone does supprises me anymore.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 09:11 PM
It is unfortunate that not many people read comments on page 10 of a breaking story - but this article needs to be shared. I could make it a new thread, but hopefully some of you will read it and understand its importance.

Special Report

Prescription Drugs May Trigger Killing

Posted Sept. 2, 2002 By Kelly Patricia O'Meara

Media Credit: Mark Leffingwell/AFP Students flee Columbine High School in April 1999. The kid spoke unsteadily: "I was sitting on a hill outside the school eating lunch with my best friend when Eric Harris came over and started shooting me. I was shot between seven and 13 times. No one really knows the exact number because there were so many bullet tracks. Most of the bullets just went right through me. After I was shot I just lay there, playing dead, and could see others being shot."

These are the recollections of 19-year-old Mark Taylor, who spent nearly two months in the hospital and has endured three years of follow-up operations for the gunshot wounds he received during the murderous 1999 rampage of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

Taylor slowly is recovering from his wounds and, in an effort to bring attention to what he believes was the cause of Harris' deadly rage, has filed a lawsuit against Solvay Pharmaceuticals Inc., the manufacturer of Luvox (Fluvoxamine), the antidepressant that Harris had been prescribed and was taking at the time of the shooting spree. Despite the deadly assault against him, Taylor's perception of the young men who nearly killed him is surprising.

Taylor tells Insight, "I'm suing Solvay because I believe that Eric Harris did what he did because of this drug. I didn't personally know Eric, but I knew him as one of the 'Trench Coat Mafia.' Everybody thought Eric and Dylan were the nicest people. My cousin, who was in Eric's class, told me that Eric and Dylan used to bring her flowers and cookies. Eric was forced onto these drugs and I feel sorry for him, like so many other kids who are put on these drugs. I don't have ill feelings against him since I don't think you can hold him accountable, because he didn't know what he was doing." Taylor's lawsuit against Solvay claims that the mind-altering drug Luvox was the cause of Harris' rampage ??" that the drug made Harris manic and psychotic.

Luvox is in a class of antidepressants called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) that interact with the serotonergic system in the brain, as do Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil. Street drugs that interact with the serotonergic system include '___' and Ecstasy. The Food and Drug Administration approved Luvox in 1997 for treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder in children, but not for treatment of depression.

The Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) records that, during controlled clinical trials of Luvox, manic reactions developed in 4 percent of children. Mania is defined as "a form of psychosis characterized by exalted feelings, delusions of grandeur … and overproduction of ideas." Court records show that the prescription for Harris had been filled 10 times between April 1998 and March 1999, and that three-and-a-half months before the shooting the dose had been increased --a common thread many experts say they are finding prior to adverse reactions to psychotropic drugs. The autopsy on Harris revealed a "therapeutic level" of Luvox in his system.

Other school shooters on antidepressants at the time of their attacks include 15-year-old Kip Kinkel who, while on Prozac, killed his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others; 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush, on "antidepressants" when she wounded one student at Bishop Neumann High School in Williamsport, Pa.; and 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on Effexor and Celexa when he wounded one teacher and three students at Granite Hills High School in El Cajon, Calif.

The medical histories of scores of "school shooters" have not been revealed, allegedly to protect the minor child. Ann Blake Tracy is a consultant in Taylor's lawsuit and director of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness. She holds a doctorate in biological psychology and is a specialist in what she believes are the adverse reactions to SSRI medications. She says Luvox caused Harris to go on the Columbine shooting spree and thinks the medical history of children who commit violent acts in school should be made public.

"Suing Solvay for the injuries Mark Taylor suffered is one of the biggest SSRI suits we'll ever see," Tracy says. "It's a pivotal case because what happened at Columbine was so big. It's really crazy when you think about it. All you have to do is read the Luvox package insert to see that Eric's actions were due to an adverse reaction to this drug. Show me a drug anywhere that has listed mania and psychosis as frequent adverse reactions. That is what the insert says for Luvox. There is no doubt in my mind that Luvox caused Eric Harris to commit these acts."

The PDR lists adverse reactions of Luvox to the nervous system as:

"FREQUENT: amnesia, apathy, hyperkinesis, hypokinesis, manic reaction, myoclonus, psychotic reaction;

"INFREQUENT: agoraphobia, akathisia, CNS depression, convulsion, delirium, delusion, depersonalization, drug dependence, emotional liability, euphoria, hallucinations, hostility, hysteria, incoordination, increased salivation, increased libido, paralysis, paranoid reaction, phobia, psychosis, sleep disorder, stupor, twitching, vertigo."

Tracy continues, "Beyond the adverse reactions listed about Luvox, one of the first clues I had that these boys were on antidepressants was when it was made public that Eric [Harris] and Dylan Klebold had both been in anger-management classes. Anger-management classes equal antidepressants. Unfortunately, Dylan Klebold's medical records have been sealed, so there's no way of knowing what if anything he was on, but it makes sense that if he was in anger-management classes he was prescribed some antidepressant."

The problem, Tracy concludes, "is that this is a public-safety issue. So why is everything kept so secret, under lock and key? This information should be made available to the public so that people can learn from it and maybe we can stop this kind of tragedy from happening in the future. We've got a nightmare on our hands with these drugs, an absolute nightmare. We've got kids on these drugs that are ticking time bombs in every school in America. Most of these drugs are not approved for children, but it doesn't stop doctors from prescribing them. Laws should be passed requiring that this medical information be made public. And states should demand toxicology reports for drugs of this kind in all murders and suicides."

Donald Marks specializes in internal medicine, has a doctorate in microbiology and has worked in pharmaceutical research for more than a decade in the area of drug safety and clinical research. Marks was brought into the Solvay lawsuit as an expert by Taylor and is not surprised that there may be a causal relationship between Luvox and Harris' murderous behavior. Marks also testified in a Wyoming case last year involving a murder related to the SSRI Paxil in which the defendant won an $8 million judgment against GlaxoSmithKline, maker of Paxil.

As part of the Columbine lawsuit, Taylor claims that Solvay failed to warn adequately of the risks and adverse reactions associated with Luvox, and Marks provides a preliminary expert opinion to the court stating that Solvay "acted in an unreasonable manner" by failing to provide adequate warnings of the adverse reactions to the drug. The Marks opinion continues: "In view of the evidence of a strong and likely causal relationship between SSRI medications, of which Luvox is one, and akathisia/suicide/homicide, Solvay should only have marketed this drug with prominent warnings and cautionary statements."

U.S. District Court Judge Clarence Brimmer has accepted Marks' preliminary report, allowing the case to go forward and giving the expert access to information that has been held under lock and key in a vault in Denver since the Columbine shooting. Marks tells Insight that "the preliminary report was based on what I know from past cases, because I haven't been allowed to examine information about Mr. Harris or anyone who knew him. The information has been locked in a room in Denver, and I haven't been allowed in the room until now."

According to Marks, "The real problem is that physicians, of which I am one, are not told that there is a potential for a causal relationship between these drugs and homicide and suicide. Therefore we're not educated to look for the kinds of adverse reactions that could herald this kind of event. That's why proper warnings about such drugs are so essential. I'm in the process of updating my report for the court, but my preliminary impression from looking at the material is that there very well could be a causal relationship here, that this drug could have been a factor that tipped Harris from being a troubled teen to a murderer."

Marks says, "In the report, I talk about the adverse-event profiles of other SSRI medications and how, in the context of rules of evidence, a statement of general causation could be made for all SSRI medications and how it could be applied to Luvox. The neuro-psychiatric-event profiles of the SSRI drugs are clearly associated with seizures and psychosis. Some have been associated with hypoglycemia, suicide and homicide. So it's not entirely implausible that one additional member of this class, like Luvox, would have those same effects."

The fact that the court has allowed the case to go forward is a good sign for Taylor, but there have been some very strange developments. Lincoln, Neb., attorney John DeCamp, who now represents Taylor against Solvay, tells Insight that "two days after I took the case, Solvay pulled Luvox from the market. I don't know if my coming on the case had any bearing on them pulling the drug, but it is interesting." Solvay announced that the drug was being removed temporarily from the U.S. market to revise data about how Luvox is manufactured.

Another interesting twist involves families pulling out of the lawsuit. "I am very reliably informed," DeCamp says, "and I'm satisfied that the people telling me this aren't lying, that at the settlement conference families were informed that a Colorado law that applies both in federal and state court says: 'If you lose, you pay.' These families were told that if they continued to sue and lost the case they would be sued in return and they'd lose their homes, cars and everything for the rest of their lives. So if you were one of these families what would you do?"

According to DeCamp, "My client is basically judgment-proof. In other words, Mark doesn't have anything. The other families didn't settle, they just dropped out of the suit as they were basically told that they were going to lose and, when it was over, the pharmaceutical companies were going to own their lives. It's fair to say that my client was presented with this argument, but he doesn't have anything."

The lawyer continues, "It's also interesting in this case that there's more security to keep related evidence from surfacing than there is to get into the White House or Fort Knox. I have never, in 35 years practicing law, seen its like. There's been more evidence gathered than you can even imagine-- things that I hope one day will be made public. I stated in court that if ever there was a monumental event this is it and the information that is locked in this room should be made public. History will be very unforgiving if that doesn't happen."

But the foremost question in the minds of experts on adverse reactions to SSRIs is whether history is just repeating itself. Recent court decisions, however, may be useful in Taylor's case against Solvay.

In April 2001, then 16-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to Wahluke High School in Washington state and took 23 classmates and a teacher hostage. Baadsgaard was held in jail for 14 months. Based on expert testimony by psychiatrists about the adverse reactions to the drugs he was taking, he finally was released from jail under community supervision for five years. Baadsgaard has no memory of his violent actions toward his classmates, which took place exactly 21 days after he had been cold-turkeyed off Paxil and switched to a high dose of Effexor (an SSRI) to treat "situational depression."

Cory's father, Jay Baadsgaard, says, "The morning that Cory went to school and did what he did, my wife and I just knew that it had to be something with the drugs. That morning he had taken about 300 milligrams of Effexor, and I thought it was something about him going off one of the drugs and then the high dose of the other. One of Cory's friends told us that Cory was yelling and then he just stopped, looked down and saw the gun in his hand and woke up."

There is no doubt that Cory is lucky not to have gone further, says his father, "and I guess I could blame myself for having the gun available, but if I'd known then just what these drugs could do it would have been the drugs that would not have been in our home. They always talk about how the kids who do these things are the ones who get picked on by the jocks and stuff, but Cory was a jock. He was on the varsity basketball team, played football and golf, and was very popular in school. I pray every night that the media will get ahold of this issue. If Cory had been on PCP the media would say 'Oh, he needs drug rehabilitation,' but because these were prescribed medications they say 'Oh, it can't be that,' but now we know it can be."

Taylor hopes his lawsuit against Solvay will make people aware of the dangerous side effects of such drugs. "Someone," he says, "has to do something about these drugs, because too many people are dying."

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 09:47 PM
reply to post by HooHaa

Do you speak for this entire generation of 14 year old kids raised by TV, call of duty, and saving private ryan?

Maybe your father was more careful with how you handled your weapon or raised you "better", this kid doesn't even know why the hell he did it, probably started playing with the damn weapon. Parenting is important.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I'm not a pro gun-control loony, by the way.(Just incase you assume)
edit on 21-1-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 09:54 PM

Originally posted by coyotepoet
I've been a Masters level therapist for the last decade and have seen people at their nuttiest. However, there are clues to what is what and the clues are in the numbers. There is an occult symmetry to them much like many of the numbers in the Tuscon shooting. This is usually how you can tell a mind control murder from the everyday murder.
I've found in researching these that the numbers that are reported in things that smell of mind control that the same patterns are repeated over and over again.
I've been availing myself of therapy for over 20yrs off & on, so I know what I'm on about. Its mainly to do with issues stemming from a violent childhood leading to unhelpful behavioural patterns. It began as a serious need b/c I was destroying myself; since, its been usually just an extra little help with self-awareness.

Except for 1 period where something extremely traumatic happened. I had to keep it together for my wife & kids, who were all effed up too. This may sound nuts, but if you knew the situation, it would make perfect sense: my wife was plotting murder & I seriously contemplated doing it myself. What had happened was so immoral that the morality of killing another person to make things better (not for revenge, for a tangible ameliorating/beneficial reason) was not in question. The only question was could it be done without getting caught. The answer was almost certainly not. We didnt do it.

I really hope you dont involve such number theories with your clients. When a person is on the edge, the absolute last thing they need is some vague reference to "occult numbers", or they'll be looking for significance in anything that can be counted, instead of where they need to look, which is inside themselves.

Behaviour, attitude, feelings: remember? Oh, but there we go with a 3... Its just that there's nothing occult about the simple triangular relationship between them which is @the root of all human experience.

You sound like a menace to your clients.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:01 PM
reply to post by Somehumanbeing

I will agree only on the point that the father should have taught the child better or at least known his own child better. Introducing kids to guns is a positive thing, we can't ignore their existence, at least everyone can be taught to handle and respect one.
edit on 21-1-2011 by SeeingBlue because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:21 PM
reply to post by C_Fawkes_4

Here you need to be 18 in order to obtain a FOID card, and then you can only buy rifles. You need to be 21 to own a hand gun. I don't know the gun laws in the state this kid was from but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say the dad giving his kid the gun was illegal. Parents need to take more responsibility for their kids. Why is it so important for some 14 year old to own a rifle?

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:30 PM
Great just what level headed sane people needed. Another idiot scapegoat for people to use to say "We need to get rid of guns and violent video games." It's quite tiring listening to them.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:32 PM
reply to post by Bunken Drum

I must admit that that kind of thinking can seem logical at times. Assassin's creed 1 and 2 was a great story revolving around that. But it is dangerous thinking and something to be wary about.

As has been discussed. This is not some normal american event. This is a child that either did it in his sleep and is still in shock or was on some drug.

Meanwhile, not reported by the news, anywhere between 60 million to 100 million people have guns and didn't misuse them today.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:35 PM

the kid was feeling old.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:52 PM

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

While being asked why he shot his father and the other members, the young man just replied “I don’t know.”

That's creepy as hell right there.

And you gotta love this:

This family tragedy proves the unstable social status in United States and the big problem of the teenage when they are easily accessible to violence and weapons.

A completely bizarre, random act with nothing more from the killer than an "I don't know" and that's "proof" of a whole host of assumptions.

edit on 21-1-2011 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

Maybe he doesn't know...because he didn't do it. Maybe this is a conspiracy...I'm not a big conspiracy theorist...but something seems strange about all these shootings lately...first the jared laughtner thing, then a bunch of high school students in cal. and now just seems strange to me.

*EDIT* sorry if this has been said already
edit on 21-1-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:57 PM
All the "video games did it" talk, is seriously unfounded and ludicrous. Video games are not a new phenomena. Regardless of the so-called "hyper-realism" in shooters and other games, there really hasn't been any new approach to the skinner-box method since it was introduced to games in the 80's.

When someone "breaks", and goes on a murder-spree, it is because they had a previous break. It really doesn't matter what form of entertainment they utilized prior to doing so. You have to be depraved, disturbed or abused in order to disassociate, then supposedly "turn the 3D shooter into reality". Then it really doesn't matter if they played video games, now does it? They could have been watching any slasher film, or shooter film, and get triggered by that.

Hundreds of millions of people play video games daily. It's a very healthy and satisfying hobby. The majority of this demographic is actually adults, but there are many kids that play the same games of course. Kids are not going to play games and then "snap" because they can't determine real from make-believe. If that's the case, then the child is mentally disturbed to begin with, which means video games are not a problem, are they?

The media, historically has a far better track record of grooming spree-killers, and the media is responsible for all the "games are evil" hubbub. As well as blaming films, music, books, and other things the intellectually challenged may find hard to understand. Something to think about.

(Also, why does no one ever report on what medications the perpetrators were prescribed? The pharmaceutical industry dispenses some of the most powerful psychotropic 'mind-altering' drugs and opiates known to man. They also give it to children in droves. You know why the media doesn't report it outright? Because the pharmaceutical companies give them more money than they could ever possibly need.)
edit on 21-1-2011 by SyphonX because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:03 PM

14 year old?

When I was 14 I had a part time job and had to take care of my mom and siblings.

posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:24 PM

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by NOTurTypical

It may be demented but its pretty normal too. Nothing pisses me off more than a gaggle of kids in your path who intentionally slow down and take their time to get off the road, staring at you all the time. It makes me want to run them over!

That is one reason I don't own a gun because I wouldn't trust myself with it.

You're basically admitting to having "God Complex". Was this your past behavior or do you still think the world revolves around you and your desires?

People with your self-view sometimes beat their wives or children, beat the family dog et cetra.
edit on 21-1-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

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