It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Bush flashing masonic sign on the back of his book.

page: 8
6
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 05:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
It was an Anti Masonic STAMP as said by Scottish Freemason.

Since hes the Curator of a Masonic Library and Museum which houses the oldest Masonic records, he has access to more information than all of us on freemasonry.
I've met Cooper. He was on a speaking tour of some lodges recently and came through town. Good guy, and I believe him when he says that was an anti-Masonic party stamp. But then, by your own evidence, we arrive at a cognitive dissonance—You believe him when he says that's an anti-Masonic stamp; yet you also show examples in pro-Masonic illustrations. If it's a symbol, it probably doesn't mean both.

Occam's razor would indicate that the reason the hands are drawn like that, or sculpted like that, is because that's what hands look like.




posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I've met Cooper. He was on a speaking tour of some lodges recently and came through town. Good guy, and I believe him when he says that was an anti-Masonic party stamp. But then, by your own evidence, we arrive at a cognitive dissonance—You believe him when he says that's an anti-Masonic stamp; yet you also show examples in pro-Masonic illustrations. If it's a symbol, it probably doesn't mean both.

Occam's razor would indicate that the reason the hands are drawn like that, or sculpted like that, is because that's what hands look like.


Who made the stamp? Not Masons. They show a Mason on there, right? Maybe I interpreted it wrong. I havent even read the Masonic Magician yet I just got it and still on another book now.

I am unsure if its a Masonic sign. I didnt find the sign in any masonic literature as far as being taught. I only see the sign as a symbolic communication or sign language in Masonic literature and other works.

You may or may not agree in the possibility of intentional, but I do.

Occams razor is a possibility. It is not a fact that, that is the reason the hands are like that. Just a likely possibilty. Just as intention is a possibility.

Im highly skeptical of all these coincidences just being Occam razor. Every painting, every statue, every person, I can not believe is just an accident.

Especially when I keep seeing people I know do it.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:37 PM
link   
i would have believed this, but he's not picking his nose with his other hand.
that would be a masonic sighn.
secret, but masonic.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 07:25 PM
link   
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

I've also said that the hand and fingers can only be put in so many positions that are somewhat naturally. It is a possibility that it is all coincidental. I could also find thousands of pictures and statues that show fingers all closed, maybe that the fingers joined together is a conspiracy.

Then what shall we call this evidence of? Some Brotherhood of "M"?

I love when I'm opposing you I must be indoctrinated. Not that I just don't believe BS stories from someone posting pictures and yelling AHA!

A 33rd?! Yeah for him. I'm sure he earned it. I'm a Companion Knight in the York Rite College. So what?

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

You are saying that the sign is involved with us as you keep posting pictures and calling it fact.

My God? My religion? That is none of your business. My relationship with God is no other man's business but my own.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by KSigMason
I've also said that the hand and fingers can only be put in so many positions that are somewhat naturally. It is a possibility that it is all coincidental. I could also find thousands of pictures and statues that show fingers all closed, maybe that the fingers joined together is a conspiracy.


Im aware peoples hands are always at random positions at any moment during the day. I am not referring to that.

I use hand gestures too, and I may be communicating sign language with out knowing it. I understand that point clearly.

Intentional hand positions is what im referring to. Like in the Stamp (anti masonic stamp) with the same hand sign Bush is using. It was intentionally drawn like that. Statues have the same hand gesture that Bush is using. Obviously the statue was intentionally created like that. I can not answer why, thats why Im here asking the Conspiracy Theorist experts. I really dont wanna ask my friends about it, would rather learn it another way if I can.

I agree its coincidental- also, some of them intentional as well.. but theres a reason why it is coincidental. And my belief is sign language and symbolic language, which isnt a far out theory to suggest people use sign language to communicate.

I've been around waaay too many people doing this, so my perspective is a bit different than yours based on our own experiences.

Im just very curious and not satisfied with.. its all an accident.

Body language , sign language, symbolic hand gestures- its all real and its all a fact people use these methods either consciously and/or unconscious to communicate.


Originally posted by KSigMason
I love when I'm opposing you I must be indoctrinated. Not that I just don't believe BS stories from someone posting pictures and yelling AHA!

BS?

The photos I posted are factually showing Bush and the art work/ statues doing the same hand gesture. Sorry thats a fact. Can't be disputed.

Intent behind the art work/ statues, and Bush can not be proven by anyone here. I believe some people doing this is partially intentional. Just my personal belief... Just like your personal belief may be that all the statues, Masonic art work, and people doing this sign is all an accident. Your entitled to believe that.

But the Masons here are saying that its ALL unintentional. People love to lump everyone in the one category and dismiss it, but thats not practical in the real world. You cant just post a few photos and say it looks similar so they must all be bogus..

I dont fall for that, its BS. Of course anyone could find pictures of people with any hand position, i realize that. But that .001% that is doing it, I believe is intentional. If its only a small amount.

I'm basing my theory on sign language (fact) and a pattern I see (another fact). Its just strange how I posts facts from your own Masonic work then everyone says its an accident. Even when its a fact that symbolic language is used in art work. And Masons are experts at symbology, geometry, ect..

I found it odd that a Mason would accidentally put those hand gestures in art work dozens and dozens and dozens of times if there was no meaning to it. And then see it in statues in the Vatican.. Other people doing it.. I just dont buy it that its all an accident. I believe even behind accidents there is intelligence, but thats more esoteric principles.


Originally posted by KSigMason
You are saying that the sign is involved with us as you keep posting pictures and calling it fact.

Yes, its a fact. I provided evidence for my claims from Masonic work, Vatican, and other sources.

Its a fact that Bush is doing the same hand gesture that is found in statues (ones in the Vatican), Masonic art work, and just random art work as well.

After I posed this fact, I get a ton of questions like Im suppose to know the answers. Im coming here for answers, yet no one here knows, or will speak up. Thats fine.

If people here don't know what that hand gesture represents, I will find out another way.

I thought people here could be of help.


Originally posted by KSigMason
My God? My religion? That is none of your business. My relationship with God is no other man's business but my own.


I respect that. I only ask because it seems some people on this board follow everything blindly and accept everything so easily. I just can not and will not accept that its ALL happening by randomness and chance. Just too much evidence to show that IT COULD be intentional.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 01:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by OnTheFelt
 



Please teach me all about the secret hand signs that only a few ATSers know about.


Please do not take this as a provocation or insult in anyway, but I believe there are many important handsigns and gestures which are used in the ceremonies as one advances through the degrees.

for example:

Reach out your arms skywards, raise your eyes heavenly then drop your hands to your belly, tips of thumbs together and from an inverted triangle with your fingertips.

or

Hug a brother and interlock your fingers pressing your palms lightly into his back, thumbs rigid and pointing upwards like two columns.

These and the many other hand gestures all have specific meanings but out of respect for the craft I do not really wish to discuss them in detail here.

Suffice it to say that there are many.

PEACE,
RK



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 02:49 AM
link   
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Thanks ThreeThreeThree, I learned a lot from your posts here, I was little skeptical about this M sign first, but now I believe this is really a secret sign language used in masonry. And also in normal position of fingers, middle and ring finger do not stick to each other so closely, unless a person intentionally do so. It is not natural.

edit on 19/2/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 07:20 AM
link   
reply to post by Rigel Kent
 


I think it's perfectly OK for you to discuss this here. I have never heard of it in any degree that I have participated in. Each degree has two hand signs associated with it, and the third degree explains the last one, which is the grand hailing sign. That would be 7 for those keeping score. The handshakes could also be described as hand signs I guess, but they are meant to be used more for feel than sight. It's possible that there is another form of masonry which I have never seen that uses these signs, but if that were the case, I would hope that the accusers could at the very least provide that information. The "m" sign, is not used in US craft masonry. The way President Bush's hand is, is completely natural and is only a secret hand sign for the severely paranoid.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 07:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by vinay86
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Thanks ThreeThreeThree, I learned a lot from your posts here, I was little skeptical about this M sign first, but now I believe this is really a secret sign language used in masonry. And also in normal position of fingers, middle and ring finger do not stick to each other so closely, unless a person intentionally do so. It is not natural.

edit on 19/2/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



you have masons telling you that a secret sign language does not exist. Then you have this random non-mason fellow telling you that it exists. You go on to believe the crazy conspiracy nut :facepalm:...



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 09:15 AM
link   
reply to post by network dude
 


Networkdude,
I very much agree that there is nothing unusual about the photo of GW's hand on the mug.
I do not think he is making an M sign, but am prepared to consider all opinions.
Thanks for being a nice bloke.

PEACE,
RK



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:12 PM
link   
In the effort to deny ignorance I will be starting a new thread based on symbolic/sign language used in the near future.

These hand signs are spiritual, esoteric, and energetic in nature. I already knew that, but now I believe I have found the source. The Kabbalah.

Still doing my research like any true skeptic should.

The "serial debunkers" here should become more skeptical than accepting everything they are told as fact.

Here are some more pictures of accidents and randomness (with no meanings) according to the "serial debunkers":
































Saint Francis of Assisi - Taken from a Video by Professor Luke Timothy Johnson on Mystical Tradition: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam



1235 A.D. St Francis Church of San Francesco Pescia



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by fordrew

Originally posted by vinay86
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Thanks ThreeThreeThree, I learned a lot from your posts here, I was little skeptical about this M sign first, but now I believe this is really a secret sign language used in masonry. And also in normal position of fingers, middle and ring finger do not stick to each other so closely, unless a person intentionally do so. It is not natural.

edit on 19/2/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



you have masons telling you that a secret sign language does not exist. Then you have this random non-mason fellow telling you that it exists. You go on to believe the crazy conspiracy nut :facepalm:...


This isnt a conspiracy.

Its a symbolic language which is documented and studied. Go research it yourself I already posted the links.

Why are you so gullible to believe MASONS as a FACT? ATS Masons at that! LOL

This is NOT taught in Masonry. Its only in Masonry symbolically. Fact. Not theory.

Masons KNOW NOTHING of this.

This is escoteric and occult science based on the kabbalah.

If you want to believe the cookie cutter lodge Masons, go ahead.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:33 PM
link   
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


So you are saying they are masonic hand gestures but they don't exist in the average lodge?

That would make them non-masonic aka no relation to freemasonry. :super-facepalm:
edit on 19-2-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Rigel Kent
 
The "m" sign, is not used in US craft masonry. The way President Bush's hand is, is completely natural and is only a secret hand sign for the severely paranoid.


I'm not paranoid. I'm here to learn.

Im CURIOUS. I care about knowledge and truth.

See, your logic is off.

Just because his hand position is NATURAL does not mean it is NOT a symbolic sign.

A symbolic sign can be NATURAL gesture. Its a natural symbolic hand sign that YOU do not know exists as a symbolic sign.


edit on 19-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:39 PM
link   
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


what does it mean? I am curious.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:04 PM
link   
He`s possibly doing some kind of sign, W perhaps. But why does everyone assume its something bad to do a handsign? Why does every little fart cause outrage and paranoia? I dont get it.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


So you are saying they are masonic hand gestures but they don't exist in the average lodge?

That would make them non-masonic aka no relation to freemasonry. :super-facepalm:
edit on 19-2-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)


No, I am not saying that are Masonic Hand gestures. This pre-dates Masonry. Its is proven and factual that it is in Masonic art. That is not the same as "they are masonic hand gestures".

Heres what I am saying.

It is a symbolic/sign language that has been used in religious and other art work for over 500 years. This has been studied and is documented.

This is before Masonry ever existed.

Its universal. Its not specific to any group.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


what does it mean? I am curious.


I am curious too.

It could have more than 1 meaning. Maybe some group adopted the symbol for themselves, I dont know.

I have close to 100 pictures with this hand sign.

And some of these pictures date back to 1000-1500 A.D.

I will post them another time.
edit on 19-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:18 PM
link   
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


I will definitely look forward your thread. Good luck and have fun making it!



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


So you are saying they are masonic hand gestures but they don't exist in the average lodge?

That would make them non-masonic aka no relation to freemasonry. :super-facepalm:
edit on 19-2-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)


No, I am not saying that are Masonic Hand gestures. This pre-dates Masonry. Its is proven and factual that it is in Masonic art. That is not the same as "they are masonic hand gestures".

Heres what I am saying.

It is a symbolic/sign language that has been used in religious and other art work for over 500 years. This has been studied and is documented.

This is before Masonry ever existed.

Its universal. Its not specific to any group.


but....isn't that what we have been saying since the start of the thread? this sign has nothing to do with masonry. It may have everything to do with the secret order of the charred piglet, but not masonry.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join