Bush flashing masonic sign on the back of his book.

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree


I must submit that you are correct. I have just learned that the head of the anti-masonic party has just been announced. based on what is shown here, there no longer remains any doubt....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/48699f02c580.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree

 

I must submit that you are correct. I have just learned that the head of the anti-masonic party has just been announced. based on what is shown here, there no longer remains any doubt....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/48699f02c580.jpg[/atsimg]

Silly remarks are made when people can't provide facts and evidence.

I provided evidence. You, nothing.

Your just displaying your own ignorance.

Another picture from the Masonic Library.

Taken from "Masonic Magician"

A Masonic Anecdote by James Gillray - 1786

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree


no, It was a joke. I have no evidence to prove that nobody in masonry that I know of uses that hand sign to prove they are a mason. I only have the good sense that God gave me to reason through your "proof" and find that it's quite possible the weakest argument I have heard to date.

www.creativeimagestudio.com...

modernphotographics.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...

and the final nail in the coffin, this one even has a masonic floor!!
www.jilldohertyphotography.com...

please, direct your energy in ways that are productive to mankind. What time you are wasting will never be back.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Its a secret society for a reason. I'm not with them. I'm only looking at evidence.

It is a fact that hes a member of Skull and Bones. A Secret Society. Im speaking about secret societies in general using symbolic language or sign language.

Make up your mind. It is either a Masonic sign you are claiming he is making or one for the Skull and Bones. Stop trying to butter your bread on both sides. One group has nothing to do with the other.

Its a form of communication using sign language. Using rings and hand shakes are a form of communication. Not so different. Depends on the perspective. Again, what your saying is not fact. Just your opinion.

To the uninitiated in Masonry, it would NOT be "very obvious" that your a Mason based on a ring. Some people dont even know Masonry exists or know what their symbolic rings mean.

But they could still, without difficulty, see your ring (or flag or decal) and ask, "What does that mean?" I would find it hard to believe that anyone would come up to another person and say, "Hey, is that a letter 'M' you are making with your hand or are you just pretending to be a part of the Illuminati/Masons/Skull and Bones?"

To someone that bush is speaking to its obvious.

WHo is Bush speaking to? And saying that it is a secret society and you have no idea because they are secret is not a valid answer, it is just a lame answer.

I knew you would deny the images I would post.

You post so many unrelated images I have no need to deny them, they are self disproving.

Its not an obvious hand sign to the uninitiated. Most people even on ATS say its NATURAL.

So again, its not an obvious communication hand sign to the average person..

Probably because the average poster on this site is not seeing hand signal-flashing Masons under every bed.

I never said Masons use that sign to prove they are Masons.

I am only suggesting that symbolic language/sign language is being used.

The use of sign language in secret societies is that far out for you?

You believe 100% that its not possible to use sign language to communicate within secret societies? If you believe its not possible, thats fine. I respect your opinion. Your Masonic friends dont do it, thats fine and okay!

My Mason friends do it.. As I've seen other examples of people , art, statues, doing it. Its obvious communcations to me. But then again, I studied body language, Hypnosis, and NLP, ect.

The pictures you posted mean nothing because they are not intentional.

Statues are intentional art work.

Have you considered to direct you energy another way as well? Because what time you waste here you will never get back.

I'm only here to expose what may POSSIBLY a form of communication from within secret socities.

Im glad you have it all figured out and know for sure its not a way of communication. So why are you still here?

Who is your GOD? What is your religion?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree

 

no, It was a joke. I have no evidence to prove that nobody in masonry that I know of uses that hand sign to prove they are a mason. I only have the good sense that God gave me to reason through your "proof" and find that it's quite possible the weakest argument I have heard to date.

www.creativeimagestudio.com...

modernphotographics.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...

and the final nail in the coffin, this one even has a masonic floor!!
www.jilldohertyphotography.com...

please, direct your energy in ways that are productive to mankind. What time you are wasting will never be back.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Make up your mind. It is either a Masonic sign you are claiming he is making or one for the Skull and Bones. Stop trying to butter your bread on both sides. One group has nothing to do with the other.

No , its not either Masonic or Skull and Bones. I have no idea what the organization is. Theres more than 2 secret societies. I am willing to admit I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING. I am willing to be wrong. But the Masons here seem to think automatically its wrong. Its programmed unconsciously in the minds of Masons here.

I only have friends that do it (they are masons, but belong to other societies), and have seen it in art work (masonic) and statues.

But they could still, without difficulty, see your ring (or flag or decal) and ask, "What does that mean?" I would find it hard to believe that anyone would come up to another person and say, "Hey, is that a letter 'M' you are making with your hand or are you just pretending to be a part of the Illuminati/Masons/Skull and Bones?"

So, your mind is having trouble believing 1 or more secret societies may POSSIBLY use a form of communication that humans use, called sign language? Whats so hard to believe in the possibility of communications of using sign language in secret societies?

WHo is Bush speaking to? And saying that it is a secret society and you have no idea because they are secret is not a valid answer, it is just a lame answer.

Thats your opinion, again, saying its a lame answer. I DONT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. Masons on here seem to be the authority of knowing all information for all secret societies out there.

Just because i dont know the exact meaning does not mean its not a form of communication.

When I do find out (again, I have friends that also have used these signs) I will surely never share it here, why would I? I would be attacked just like when I posted images like you requested.

I knew every Mason on here would have a problem with it. Even when I never claimed it was Masonic or taught in Masonry. Only that the symbology was there.

All I claim is the POTENTIAL and POSSIBILITY of using sign language or symbolic language in secret societies.

If the Masons or anyone else here thinks thats total crazy, thats your opinion.

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree


Your post is a complete backtrack. You initially atributed this to Masons and now have mitigated that to some unnamed secret society.This hand position has nothing to do with Masonry depsite what your 'friends' have said or claimed. If it did you would have come to the table with something other than what you already posted.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Besides these facts, I have friends that are Masons that do the same hand sign as the 32nd in the picture. Its been about 8 years since we spoke, or else I would ask him.

He seems to be the only one who could verify your claims.

This is why we discussed your theory based on your assertion that that hand sign was used to communicate affiliation. If it's used, then it's taught. If it's taught, then there is some teaching aid. Find that, and you have a leg to stand on, as it is now, you are lisping badly.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree

 

Your post is a complete backtrack. You initially atributed this to Masons and now have mitigated that to some unnamed secret society.This hand position has nothing to do with Masonry depsite what your 'friends' have said or claimed. If it did you would have come to the table with something other than what you already posted.

You asked for images, I posted them. Then you claim its not good enough. Exactly as I predicted.

How ironic I knew how you would react.

I'm not going to put much more info up. Its not worth my time when all Masons on here won't even accept a possibility of a form of communication within these societies. Even with evidence from art, with in masonic libraries, and statues, ect.

EVEN A MASONIC BROTHER DOING A HAND SIGN ON A MASONIC LODGE VIDEO IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE? For a possibility ? If thats not enough, then nothing will be. If you truly want to know you will find out on your own.

Im just too skeptical of all these people doing the same sign. Maybe I studied too much body language and hypnosis.

I think ATSers have too much pride to ever admit they MAY be wrong. Or something MAY be different then what they believe. Its okay though, I've learned much since I entered in this conversation.

And, if i were really a member of a society like that, and swore to keep secrets, I would never reveal them. Like really, I dont even know you. And you would expect more evidence from me?

I will find out. And nothing will change , lol.

Just lovin' life all day.

MM For the madness that is this thread. I have to wonder wether this M could be a sign to the Mother ship to come pick up Bush Junior. I seen a funny glint in his eyes, so he must be a Reptilian. The M is a secret code for the Mother ship to cloak and come and get him.
That coffee he is drinking is actually blood from his latest human victim.

Well........... It's more exciting than . he made the "M" sign...........wit

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Please provide evidence of your claims.

I can not prove he did it intentionally and will not try to prove it. Since you claim he is doing it unintentionally and are sure of it, prove it.

Here you go , a fairly full and complete description of why both neurologically and physically the human race does not have independent control over their fingers.

I've shown my proof. You've admitted you have none to counter it. End of discussion?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Besides these facts, I have friends that are Masons that do the same hand sign as the 32nd in the picture. Its been about 8 years since we spoke, or else I would ask him.

He seems to be the only one who could verify your claims.

This is why we discussed your theory based on your assertion that that hand sign was used to communicate affiliation. If it's used, then it's taught. If it's taught, then there is some teaching aid. Find that, and you have a leg to stand on, as it is now, you are lisping badly.

would you be willing to personally post all information, secrets, rituals, etc for all Masonic degrees? So everyone on ATS can know all the information that you now learned?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Please provide evidence of your claims.

I can not prove he did it intentionally and will not try to prove it. Since you claim he is doing it unintentionally and are sure of it, prove it.

Here you go , a fairly full and complete description of why both neurologically and physically the human race does not have independent control over their fingers.

I've shown my proof. You've admitted you have none to counter it. End of discussion?

edit on 2011.2.16 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

Josh,

Thats proof alright. But that doesnt mean ALL gestures are accidents.

Sign language is a fact. Symbolic language is a fact. Just like your proof is a fact. Yours is not better or worse, it just is.

As most conspiracy theorists do, is lump everything in one general category. Makes it easier to "disprove" it that way.

Again, my masonic friends do the same signs as the 32nd in the video, and as bush. I do not, will not, and cannot prove my friends do it, nor do i care to. I thought some members here would have some extra information to add. Its okay if you guys are unaware of this form of communication. I will find out other ways.

Outer Masons are just "pawns" to the occult societies that run them.

Albert Pike and Manly P Hall both recognized this.

Originally posted by rigel4
MM For the madness that is this thread.

HAHAHA ...so true.. I agree.

Im only suggesting possibilities. To stir up some disccusion..

Yet some extremist Masons on this form know for a FACT, it is not communication.

Hey, I'm willing to accept that potentially a well defined Pinky, Ring/Middle together, Pointer and Thumb being specifically displayed is intentional.

I know I never rest MY hand that way, and to do so I have to do it intentionally.

That this handsign is not currently being demonstrated to be affliated to any Church, or organization is pretty clear.

But the same neurological issue that makes the control the ring finger less, also makes it more likely that someone doing it is doing it specifically.

So.

You may have groups of people who are intentionally displaying a hand sign.

What they are intending to communicate, and with whom - that isn't clear.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
You asked for images, I posted them. Then you claim its not good enough. Exactly as I predicted.

Bravo Nostradamus. But anyone could have predicted the response owing to the lack of evidence.

I'm not going to put much more info up. Its not worth my time when all Masons on here won't even accept a possibility of a form of communication within these societies. Even with evidence from art, with in masonic libraries, and statues, ect.

I know there is a secret form of communication among Masons, they are the grips and words as well as the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress. That is all, end of story. No Mason is going to communicate through a statue. What is the point?

EVEN A MASONIC BROTHER DOING A HAND SIGN ON A MASONIC LODGE VIDEO IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE?

Evidence of what? That he is gesticulating? My family is Italian, they use their hands more then their mouths. Does this make them a part of a secret society or just found of gesticulating when they speak?

Im just too skeptical of all these people doing the same sign.

To what end? What is the purpose? What are they conveying that can not be convyed more econimically? The problem is you have zero explanation for what it may mean and are very heavily speculating.

Maybe I studied too much body language and hypnosis.

I concur.

I think ATSers have too much pride to ever admit they MAY be wrong. Or something MAY be different then what they believe. Its okay though, I've learned much since I entered in this conversation.

As a Mason I know what the secret words and signs are. You can find them out as well. They are not that big of a deal. When you do locate them you will see that hand gesticualting is not part of the secrecy.

And, if i were really a member of a society like that, and swore to keep secrets, I would never reveal them. Like really, I dont even know you. And you would expect more evidence from me?

Grab a copy of Duncan's Ritual then get back to me.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Thats proof alright. But that doesnt mean ALL gestures are accidents.

No, but it makes it impossible to distinguish between a hand at rest and an intentional gesture without having additional, independent knowledge corroborating intent.

So a handsign is just a handsign unless you can put it into a specific context without relying on the handsign itself as evidence.

While its not a direct and clear affiliation, the Vatican has statues with that hand sign Bush is doing. I posted the pictures already. A statue is intentionally made. Also the STAMP that is from Masonic Library/ Museum also shows that same hand sign bush does. Which I also posted.

It was an Anti Masonic STAMP as said by Scottish Freemason.

Since hes the Curator of a Masonic Library and Museum which houses the oldest Masonic records, he has access to more information than all of us on freemasonry.

To say he is 100% wrong and doesn't know what hes talking about, is alittle absurd.

Originally posted by Aeons
Hey, I'm willing to accept that potentially a well defined Pinky, Ring/Middle together, Pointer and Thumb being specifically displayed is intentional.

I know I never rest MY hand that way, and to do so I have to do it intentionally.

That this handsign is not currently being demonstrated to be affliated to any Church, or organization is pretty clear.

But the same neurological issue that makes the control the ring finger less, also makes it more likely that someone doing it is doing it specifically.

So.

You may have groups of people who are intentionally displaying a hand sign.

What they are intending to communicate, and with whom - that isn't clear.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
No, but it makes it impossible to distinguish between a hand at rest and an intentional gesture without having additional, independent knowledge of intent.

And the STAMP from the Masonic library/museum?

As per a Scottish Mason that runs the oldest dated Masonic materials he clearly states the stamp is an Anti Masonic stamp, which happens to use the same hand symbolism Bush is doing.