Bush flashing masonic sign on the back of his book.

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posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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Actually he's flashing "west side" y'all.

My turn!

What sign is he flashing in this one?




posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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oh for the love of god, Bush was never a Mason, if I had a dollar for everytime soemone says oh, he's a Mason, or She's [yeah, I know right?] a woman-Mason? I'd be a millionaire, every Lodge and Grand Lodge keeps extensive records of Members so you'd think you'd find Bush on something, but you don't... and fox, thats just the "I'm from Texas Y'all" sign
edit on 16-2-2011 by TheForgottenOnes because: had to end on that one little note to fox



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
oh for the love of god, Bush was never a Mason, if I had a dollar for everytime soemone says oh, he's a Mason, or She's [yeah, I know right?] a woman-Mason? I'd be a millionaire, every Lodge and Grand Lodge keeps extensive records of Members so you'd think you'd find Bush on something, but you don't... and fox, thats just the "I'm from Texas Y'all" sign
edit on 16-2-2011 by TheForgottenOnes because: had to end on that one little note to fox


The fact is that same hand gesture Bush is giving is in Mason Hand Book for a Master Mason ritual. That is fact.

Its also a fact that other Masons do that same hand sign. Another fact.

Do you believe what Bush did was intentional? What about the Masonic art work, drawings.. and what about the statues? All accidental or intentional for displaying that same exact hand sign Bush is giving?

Intentional or randomness?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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Statue doing same hand gesture as Bush. With both hands.



Another statue doing the hand gesture Bush is doing.



More intentional art work with hand gestrue

edit on 16-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
The point is, Mason or not.. People (Masons included) use these hand signs/gestures to communicate with intention.



Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
What are they communicating?


Can you answer a direct question? What are they communicating? You are so convinced that something is being conveyed, then tell us; what is this message?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


you are reaching way too far on this line of thinking. The first picture in your above post of the angel praying is masonic. In the Scottish Rite, that is how we pray. If you want to find out why, you can look it up, but the fingers and their position has nothing at all to do with anything other than how they were at the time. That's also how you hold chopsitcks. Is everyone who uses them a mason?

Please, prove me wrong and show me where in masonry we are supposed to be taught how to do these hand signs.
I must have been sick that day.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Bush wouldn't know a Masonic Symbol if it kicked him up the arse.
This positioning of the fingers is quite natural. I must do it several times a day without realising it, as I am sure you all do. Next time you rest your head in your hands or hold something, take a conscious look at the positioning of the fingers.

If they happen to be in this strange configuration, then,..................for firkins sake, you must be a secret Mason.
But then again, we are so secret, you wouldn't know if you were one.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
The point is, Mason or not.. People (Masons included) use these hand signs/gestures to communicate with intention.



Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
What are they communicating?


Can you answer a direct question? What are they communicating? You are so convinced that something is being conveyed, then tell us; what is this message?


There communicating their affiliation. Their brotherhood.

Just like Masons wear rings, do hand shakes, ect. Its no different.

Gangs also do this. Its very common.

These guys use sign language. Why do you think they use sign language? Its undetectable to the masses. Thats why they are called secret societies. They use secret language thats not really so secret. Theres a reason why its all coming out so blatantly now.

Its not an accident.




posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 


you are reaching way too far on this line of thinking. The first picture in your above post of the angel praying is masonic. In the Scottish Rite, that is how we pray. If you want to find out why, you can look it up, but the fingers and their position has nothing at all to do with anything other than how they were at the time. That's also how you hold chopsitcks. Is everyone who uses them a mason?.


You seem like an intelligent dude. But do you really beleive the statue was built unintentionally with those hand positions? I think both hands had the same hand sign. You 100% believe it was done unintentional?

I'm only reporting the evidence. I'm not giving opinions.

I never said the hand sign had anything to do wit the Scottish Rite.



Originally posted by network dude
Please, prove me wrong and show me where in masonry we are supposed to be taught how to do these hand signs.


What?

I never said it was taught in Masonry.

I know all your "secrets". So I agree with you, Its not taught in Masonry. At least not the "outer society".

Maybe thats what Manly P Hall was referring to when he says theres 2 societies within freemasonry. Or maybe its not Freemasonry at all, and only has a connection to it.. an affiliation.

But the symbolism is there within masonry. Fact.




edit on 16-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
Bush wouldn't know a Masonic Symbol if it kicked him up the arse.
This positioning of the fingers is quite natural. I must do it several times a day without realising it, as I am sure you all do. Next time you rest your head in your hands or hold something, take a conscious look at the positioning of the fingers.


Yes I agree, the position of the fingers may be quite natural. No one is denying that.

Then there is sign language. Sign language is a fact.

Did Bush do that sign language intentionally?

We know the picture was chosen for the back cover.

And we know that hand sign has been done intentionally in art work and statues.

I dont see how using sign language to communicate affiliation to a brotherhood is any different than a Mason using a handshake.



Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
If they happen to be in this strange configuration, then,..................for firkins sake, you must be a secret Mason.
But then again, we are so secret, you wouldn't know if you were one.


Its not really a secret when it can be found in books online and in the book store.

The information only appears when the student is ready




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posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Masons do not use the sing language "M" in any part of the ritual. Plus in that book, the candidate is the one giving your so called M sign. How would the candidate know to do that? It's not in any part of the ritual. I've been a part of or observed the 3rd degree ceremony more times than I can count, and I've never seen this "M" sign used.

Plus, that particular position of the fingers is not sign language for "M". This is sign language for "M"



reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Well, if you have our literature then you should be able to find the exerpt talking about the picture describing what the candidate's hand sign means.

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

What is sad is that you think you know more than actual members. You are arguing against members who hold different Masonic backgrounds and knowledge, but you don't care because your opinion is something different.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 

That is the international symbol for "digging for gold".

reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

The position of the candidate's hand in that picture is inconsequential. Like I said and others have said the candidate has knowledge of what is going to happen nor is he told to put his hands into a design.

The fact remains Bush (Jr. and Sr.) were never Masons. The last President to be a Mason was Gerald Ford.

At work I've been watching peoples hands and once in a while I see the "M" sign when people are carrying something, and I know for a fact that I'm the only Mason in my office.

The hand can only make so many gestures, do you think that maybe some of them might be the same?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
In the Scottish Rite, that is how we pray. If you want to find out why, you can look it up, but the fingers and their position has nothing at all to do with anything other than how they were at the time. That's also how you hold chopsitcks. Is everyone who uses them a mason?.


Robert L.D. Copper, a Scottish Freemason. The Curator of the Grand Lodge of Scotland Museum and Library in Edinburgh. His lodge records date back to 1599, the oldest known...

In his Museum/Library there is Masonic art work with those hand signs that Bush is doing.

The Stamp:
(picture quality much better in his book "Masonic Magician")


Direct picture from his book:


Another picture- Gesture with masonic symbology:



Oh man, Tom Hanks is in on it too!!!



Heres the last one for now. Plenty more out there.




posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
There communicating their affiliation. Their brotherhood.


So being that George W. Bush is not a Mason what affiliation or brotherhood is he communicating?


Just like Masons wear rings, do hand shakes, ect. Its no different.


It is completely different. My Masonic ring makes it very obvious that I am a Mason, me placing my hands on my hips in a certain manner or posing for a portait in a specific way seems like a truly assinine way of commincating my affiliation. I am wearing a ring for Christ's sake, how much more obvious can that be?


Gangs also do this. Its very common.


It is also fairly obvious to watch a gang member when they are 'stacking' and infer what they are doing. Zippy the Chimp would know what was happening.


These guys use sign language. Why do you think they use sign language? Its undetectable to the masses. Thats why they are called secret societies. They use secret language thats not really so secret. Theres a reason why its all coming out so blatantly now.


Ooookay. Once again, the ring, car decals, the flag I fly on my porch are obvious. Why would anyone need to be secretive and obvious at the same time?


Its not an accident.


It is not anything and that is the point.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Masons do not use the sing language "M" in any part of the ritual. Plus in that book, the candidate is the one giving your so called M sign. How would the candidate know to do that? It's not in any part of the ritual. I've been a part of or observed the 3rd degree ceremony more times than I can count, and I've never seen this "M" sign used.

Plus, that particular position of the fingers is not sign language for "M". This is sign language for "M"


As per the photo in your own Masonic Manuals, the symbolic hand gesture is there. Its a fact. Justify it however you like. The fact is, its there. And its on Masonic art work too. And statues.

And I know its not taught in Masonry. Never said it was taught in Masonry. Im also not sure if its for "M", but it sure looks like it.


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

Well, if you have our literature then you should be able to find the exerpt talking about the picture describing what the candidate's hand sign means.


As I mentioned earlier. I never said it was taught in Masonry. Fact is, its symbolically there.

Symbology is something Masons are experts at.


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

What is sad is that you think you know more than actual members. You are arguing against members who hold different Masonic backgrounds and knowledge, but you don't care because your opinion is something different.


I'm only reporting facts and evidence. No opinions here. Again, not sure how many times i have to repeat myself, But this is not taught in Masonry. Its symbolically there. Its a symbolic language.

What I'm saying is Bush is intentionally using symbolic language (or sign language) that happens to be found symbolically in Masonry. Its a fact its found in Masonry drawings and art work. And its a fact Bush is doing the same hand gesture found in that Masonic drawings and art work. Twist it how you like. Those are facts.

It would be a endless debate to decide if Bush did it intentionally, so believe what you want.


Originally posted by KSigMason
The fact remains Bush (Jr. and Sr.) were never Masons. The last President to be a Mason was Gerald Ford.


Glad we agree. Never said they were. They are factually part of Skull and Bones, a Secret Society. And thats what im talking about in GENERAL. Secret Societies. This is not Mason specific.




Originally posted by KSigMason
At work I've been watching peoples hands and once in a while I see the "M" sign when people are carrying something, and I know for a fact that I'm the only Mason in my office.

The hand can only make so many gestures, do you think that maybe some of them might be the same?


The point is intention.

So random people doing it unintentionally or unconsciously are no part of the group im speaking about.

I'm speaking about the group of people doing it intentionally


edit on 16-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
You seem like an intelligent dude. But do you really beleive the statue was built unintentionally with those hand positions? I think both hands had the same hand sign. You 100% believe it was done unintentional?
Yes, because that's the way human hands at rest tend to fall. Simple fact of the way our bodies are designed. Nothing more.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

The position of the candidate's hand in that picture is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the ceremony nor can you find anything that says it does. The "M" sign is coincidental. Like I said before, the candidate is not told ever to put his hands in that fashion.

You say its not taught in Masonry, but yet you use Masonic literature as your evidence?

You're posting pictures and putting your opinion into it.

Have you asked Bush if he is intentionally using it? Maybe he did it unconsciously?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


So being that George W. Bush is not a Mason what affiliation or brotherhood is he communicating?


Its a secret society for a reason. I'm not with them. I'm only looking at evidence.

It is a fact that hes a member of Skull and Bones. A Secret Society. Im speaking about secret societies in general using symbolic language or sign language.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
It is completely different. My Masonic ring makes it very obvious that I am a Mason, me placing my hands on my hips in a certain manner or posing for a portait in a specific way seems like a truly assinine way of commincating my affiliation. I am wearing a ring for Christ's sake, how much more obvious can that be?


Its a form of communication using sign language. Using rings and hand shakes are a form of communication. Not so different. Depends on the perspective. Again, what your saying is not fact. Just your opinion.

To the uninitiated in Masonry, it would NOT be "very obvious" that your a Mason based on a ring. Some people dont even know Masonry exists or know what their symbolic rings mean.

So, "very obvious" is just the way someone experiences something or a perspective. Not a fact.

To someone that bush is speaking to its obvious.

So obviously, it would not be obvious, to the uninitiated.

Thats is the whole point!!!! Its about Secrets.

I knew you would deny the images I would post.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Ooookay. Once again, the ring, car decals, the flag I fly on my porch are obvious. Why would anyone need to be secretive and obvious at the same time?

We're in a forum talking about secret societies. Thats why they are secret. I can't believe you asked that question in this forum.. why would a secret society need to keep secrets.. wow...

Its not an obvious hand sign to the uninitiated. Most people even on ATS say its NATURAL.

So again, its not an obvious communication hand sign to the average person..

You can try to justify this to yourself all you want. Doesn't change facts.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
You seem like an intelligent dude. But do you really beleive the statue was built unintentionally with those hand positions? I think both hands had the same hand sign. You 100% believe it was done unintentional?
Yes, because that's the way human hands at rest tend to fall. Simple fact of the way our bodies are designed. Nothing more.


Thats your belief and opinion. Thats fine.

Please provide evidence of your claims.

I can not prove he did it intentionally and will not try to prove it. Since you claim he is doing it unintentionally and are sure of it, prove it.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ThreeThreeThree
 

The position of the candidate's hand in that picture is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the ceremony nor can you find anything that says it does. The "M" sign is coincidental. Like I said before, the candidate is not told ever to put his hands in that fashion.

You say its not taught in Masonry, but yet you use Masonic literature as your evidence?

You're posting pictures and putting your opinion into it.

Have you asked Bush if he is intentionally using it? Maybe he did it unconsciously?


Of course I use evidence from Masonic literature, because thats where it is. Thats a fact. Its also in statues and other art work. Not just masonic.

Im posting pictures that FACTUALLY have the same hand gesture. Sure , I may have an opinon.. . But i have evidence.

Evidence says people communicate with hands.

Evidence shows people doing same hand gestures.

Theres no evidence on intentions.

Ill just ask my friend why he does it when the opportunity is right.

Sorry , im biased only because I personally know people (met) pepole that do this hand sign in many photos and pictures. Even when i see them in person. He also happens to be a 33 degree mason (involved with other societies too)

So we both can't prove our side.

I guess obvious isnt so obvious anymore.

They indoctrinated you well.




edit on 16-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
You seem like an intelligent dude. But do you really beleive the statue was built unintentionally with those hand positions? I think both hands had the same hand sign. You 100% believe it was done unintentional?
Yes, because that's the way human hands at rest tend to fall. Simple fact of the way our bodies are designed. Nothing more.


Do you think all people that do this sign is by accident? Photos, drawings, statues, masonic art work? Its all randomness. Can you prove it?

Even the stamp I posted earlier, thats bunk too?

#29 in "Masonic Magician" written by Scottish Mason that holds oldest library of Masonic information, heres what he says this image is:

"A Serbian anti- Semitic/Masonophobic stamp issued during the Nazi occuption. - Rober L.D. Cooper



From a Mason Library, written by a Mason, with intentions behind the stamp, that being Masonic.

Doing the same sign Bush is doing.

Both hands

edit on 16-2-2011 by ThreeThreeThree because: (no reason given)





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