Why Gold and Silver are dropping ...

Originally posted by Lookingup
This works best with a non-American who actually knows what real money is.

Only the second time I've used that particular emoticon.

A foreigner once quipped: Americans know the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

I'm pretty far from being a self-hating yank, but when I consider the paltry number of Americans with an allocation to precious metals, it's hard not to agree with him.

Gold doesn't go "up" or "down."

The value of paper currency in relation to gold goes up or down.

You neither gain nor lose with gold.

An ounce of gold is the same value of an ounce of gold in 1900.

Only the dollars have become more worthless.

reply to post by GirlGenius


As a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch, now is a great time to buy gold, silver, or copper. I can guarantee a good return on your investment within this next year. Always solid long term investments. Low risk.

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Gold is just a rock.......

its a ploy..its a scam..

Then it's been a ploy and a scam since the beginning of human civilization.

Way to deal the Glenn Beck card BTW.

Sure you don't want to throw Alex Jones in for good measure?

Peace

Hey Dr. Love!

Why do these young pups blame everything on the political right? Saturnx,what kind of paintings do you have that makes them worth more than gold? I'm just curious. Lets say you have a rare Dali or a Renoir and I have a Meteorite from....lets say, Pluto, that weighs 7 pounds. Which is woth more? I personally would pay more for the Meteorite than the paintings. The price of anything, is what someone is willing to pay you for it. If gold is[was] a scam, why [is]were the wealthiest people in the world buying it? Do wealthy people normally buy things they know are a scam? Why do we not sell and trade those rare stones more instead of gold or your paintings?

Originally posted by pinchanze
Do wealthy people normally buy things they know are a scam?

First off, wealthy people do not get rich by spending or buying things. They save,hoard up their money to get rich, and use that money to MAKE MORE MONEY, based on the assets they own compared to the common man.

When you see a rich man buys an expensive latest model of a car, costing around a hundred thousand, do not ever presume he is throwing money away.

He buys it to impress people around him. Everyone will presume he is wealthy to be able to afford such a car, and thus fawns all over him. Later, after one year, he sells it away at $80,000. He may seem to have lost $20,000, but that car had served its purpose, to impress others and gain others' trust which will help him make far far more then the $20,000 he lost. Will all that money, he re-invest into another expensive latest model of car, to make even more money(scam).

But if you don't know about wealth and the creation of wealth, you would have saved your money for years and bought a cheap china made car costing $20,000. Thats all you can afford. It impresses no one, just another box on 4 wheels, which is fine if you are not in the scaming biz. But if you intend to scam, to make money, that ride will get you nowhere, for the next 10 years you will still be driving that car, if it had not fall apart yet.

Both of you actually spent $20,000. But it was the rich man that got ahead instead of you.

Scams are just CON vincing games. The rich man shows off his trappings of wealth to make the foolish common men believed that the rich, whom are already rich, would want nothing more, therefore incapble of scams. But that is one of the greatest lie a human should know. This was how the Madoff scandal of not 50million BUT A STAGGERING 50billion dollars came about.

Greed knows no bound. Make a hundred thousand, and you want a million. Make a million and you want to be a billionaire, etc. As the say goes, give a greedy man an inch and he will want to become a ruler.

So, do not be fooled into believing that whatever the wealthy will buy would necessarily means such items are worth buy. They bought with the intention of making MORE money later on, selling it to suckers like you.

If they can see that a sucker can be interested in a piece of metorite, fooled to be parted with his money, rest assure that rich man will snap up that rock first and sell you at a higher price later. Fortunately, not all men are that foolish, but are you?

-double post-

Everybody that says gold and silver are good investments today are at best, well misinformed....
Gold is currently over valued... These things are reported usually once, then forgotten...

There were two ship wrecks found in early 2000 that if all dumped on the market at once, would have halved the value of gold... Instead, it has shot up in price. This is due to a false quanity (there is tons of gold being held that isn't techinically in circulation...

Eventually, gold WILL drop greatly...

Everybody that is buying it to retain wealth when TSHF is also headed up the brown creek w/ no paddle. There is sonething that happened less than 100 years ago in America, where a certain president made an executive order demanding that all gold and silver bullion be turned over to the government. If you did not turn it over, and were caught, prison time... If the economy collapses completely, EXPECT that this will happen again...

Originally posted by baphomet420
Everybody that says gold and silver are good investments today are at best, well misinformed....
Gold is currently over valued... These things are reported usually once, then forgotten...

There were two ship wrecks found in early 2000 that if all dumped on the market at once, would have halved the value of gold... Instead, it has shot up in price. This is due to a false quanity (there is tons of gold being held that isn't techinically in circulation...

Eventually, gold WILL drop greatly...

Everybody that is buying it to retain wealth when TSHF is also headed up the brown creek w/ no paddle. There is sonething that happened less than 100 years ago in America, where a certain president made an executive order demanding that all gold and silver bullion be turned over to the government. If you did not turn it over, and were caught, prison time... If the economy collapses completely, EXPECT that this will happen again...

"Gold is currently overvalued"

In terms of what? US Dollars?

You may be the one who is misinformed.

A couple of shipwrecks? Come on! You do realize that gold has had it's big run-up in the face of a huge contrary pressure that dwarfs old shipwrecks (silly issue). Those in the UK may recall when criminal Gordon Brown dumped his nation's gold at $300 per ounce. That gold could be said to belong to UK subjects, and they don't have it anymore because Bozo Brown screwed them out of it.

The central banks dumped tons and tons of gold, with the IMF each year trying to hold the lid on it, graciously throwing perhaps "only" another 1,000 tons per year, mostly at nations like India and China, who have very little gold, compared to European nations with only small populations.

Central banks actually needed to dump gold, manipulate gold, otherwise their fiat money scam might come to a premature end.

You mention "false quantity" as if that helps make your case?? Are you sure you didn't pull exactly the reverse out of some article you read? Read those articles again! Most people have seen indications that the gold supposedly held at Fort Knox and other depositories is actually GONE. Long gone. That's why no audit is allowed. Make sense?

As far as a "certain president", it was Roosevelt in 1933, and NO silver was confiscated, only gold bullion, not rare coins, etc. Obviously that was a criminal thing to do, but it was done for a specific reason. The central banks of the world, led by the Fed and the Bank of England, wanted the "barbarous relic" (what Keynes derisively labeled gold as) to fade from human memory. They knew that if gold was out of the hands of the people, there would come a day when people looked at paper, and called that "money", and could look at gold, and only come up with ignorant and curious nonsense about the thing they had never experienced.

Their plan has obviously worked!

Deny ignorance. Read your history books. Before you assume the lies your masters have fed you are true, try and imagine that they are liars, and then look again, and try to draw logical conclusions.

BTW, I'm personally far from being a "gold bug", but that doesn't mean I need to lap up every drop of insanity the banking crowd has vomited forth. No thanks, I can make up my own mind.

JR

reply to post by glaucon

Oh, btw, just for all you gold bugs. Who owns most of the gold in the world? The same exact people who own the most t-bills in the world: THE FED. So, if you are anti fed, you inherently should be anti-gold. Seriously, I hate it when people are trying to hedge their exposure to the Fed through gold when the Fed owns more gold than anyone in the world. Get a grip on reality people.

You might have noticed that I have posted on the "pro" precious metals side, and yet...

I AGREE WITH YOU.

It is very true that almost all the world's gold seems to be held by central banks, in Switzerland, where the nobility through various fronts have stashed much of their ill-gotten gains, by the Vatican and other old and murky organizations, many with no name we would ever recognize.

This is a serious issue.

It's why I tend to warn people to be prudent when it comes to gold. Unfortunately, today's average person is a robot that seems to only accept simplicity, they prefer things in black, or white, up, or down, on or off.

I think that the evidence shows we need to come to a more moderate position when it comes to gold. It should not be accepted as a panacea, it is not going to necessarily make you "rich", etc. That can be a misconception.

However, can it help preserve wealth? Well, it always has in the past, so at least we have that to go on.

The trouble may be in trying to answer exactly "why" gold has the power to preserve your wealth. And the answer takes us back to what we began with.

Gold "works" primarily because the wealthy people of the world do in fact control the vast majority. While this sounds as if it can be a huge Achilles Heel, it is simultaneously an advantage. It is advantageous in the sense that we really can't "beat" them, so to some extent we must join them. It is their game.

Of course it is their game, the central banks, the nobles behind them, the ancient institutions. Could they turn the tables on us? Of course! But history shows that they are rather consistent with following a script, so let's look at that.

In the past, fiat money has never really worked too well, for very long anyway. Not that it couldn't work, because there are examples of where it did, for a time. But the context of any system, is in the greater system in which it finds itself. That greater system is the money power that controls the global economy through that power. Many religionists even have a name for it: Mammon.

Their chosen method of achieving control when it comes to finance in the modern era has been to install a global fiat scheme, based upon the USD, which is in turn based upon the global agreement to use USD to purchase oil. As some may recall, to get this global scheme rolling, gold was indeed involved. At Bretton Woods, where the criminal scam was hammered out, it was the US Dollar that was set up as the lynch-pin, but only because of the agreement to redeem dollars for gold, at the rate of $35 per ounce.

Of course, they were "two-stepping" us! The whole thing was set up to fail in short order, and it did, as the US went on a binge, and nations like France, as well as big oil producers, began to grab as much gold as they could at $35/oz.

The next phase saw Nixon close the "gold window", and the next eight years were a wild ride, with inflation rising sharply. But that seemingly was all by design! After this short time of chaos passed, the world apparently still "needed" to carry on, and the USD was left in place, even though now no gold redemption was possible.

At that point, there truly was, finally, the global fiat choke-hold the banksters had always desired. But gold continued to lurk in the shadows, and soon they found that they needed to keep dumping gold on the market, and playing illegal manipulative games, in order to keep appearances up about their fiat currency. Which was not a huge problem really, especially if one had the power to siphon gold out of depositories, and replace it with plated bricks, and further, prohibit anyone from ever examining them! Brilliant.

Here's something you don't always read about: Their "greater scam" is that they operate like the human heart (sweet, ha?) They "beat", they go from one scam, back to another, with enough time in between to ensure that the sheeple aren't the wiser. In fact, the sheeple eventually beg their masters for the next heartbeat!

And so it is with gold. As the wheels come off of the fiat empire, the banksters will soon step forth and announce that they have the "fix".

GOLD of course! This has all happened before, look at US history, where the people suffer fiat, only to beg for a return to "sound money", and eventually back again. Meanwhile, the banksters laugh! Folks, we're in their casino, they are the House!

But let me be clear that we would be foolish to jump to the conclusion that gold "is" a scam, more precisely, it is utilized as "part" of the bigger scam.

That distinction is critical, and all the wealthy understand this subtle nuance. What is ahead is indeed severe chaos, and to get through the chaos, one will need gold. Once the transition has been made, then people should be able to reassess their positions, but not until that time.

This is how the truly wealthy, the multigenerational wealthy, manage to always KEEP what they have for the next generation. And if we look to the past, we see that major chaos, world wars, etc. have gone on, and yet, the nobles always get through it (as long as they don't end up targeted by their own). It's one of the reasons that the Hapsburgs set up Switzerland just in advance of the monster wars they were planning.

Most people of course do not think in these terms, but once you are given the responsibility of retaining significant wealth for more than just one lifetime, these things would become abundantly clear.

Final word: SILVER. Yes, that is where the little people should be looking to, but more on that later.

JR

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
reply to post by ADUB77

 

Instead you have the trend followers on here now saying silver is an amazing buy at $30

You owe it to yourself to learn about these things. Silver is indeed a bargain at $30!

A few years ago, at the annual Silver Summit held in our area every year, a noted silver expert, Jason Hommel got up in front of the crowd and gave his speech. Heroically, he gave his reasons why he expected silver to reach an astounding $8,000.00 PER OUNCE!! I say "heroically" because such a huge "leap" would sound like insanity, and most so-called "experts" would never want to go out so far on a limb. But to his credit, he called it like he saw it. Perhaps even he was surprised, but the more he studied the matter, the more things looked "crazy good".

OMG if this isnt the biggest bunch of BS I have ever seen on here! They just want to to create a madness here, a buying stampede!

If there was any real chance (8,000$oz) that such could be made in silver IT WOULD ALL BE BOUGHT UP BY THE WEALTHY ALREADY! Wake up, stop listening to these fake real estate guys and the chicks with large breasts!

You to can be an heroic silver buyer! Crazy good? Only an exbert would go out on a limb! Hat just a guy calling it like he sees it!

Originally posted by larphillips

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You can't eat gold or silver. If you want to hedge TEOTWAWKI .. buy bulk food, survival items, etc.
I've never understood the drive for people to buy silver or gold for TEOTWAWKI.

It's all about portability of wealth. You might have stocked up on supplies and whatnot, but what happens when you want to trade? Small bits evenly exchanged for other small bits are all well and good, but when you need to trade for something big, you can't exactly cart in 15,000 sandwiches. No man is an island, and no one person or group will have everything needed to survive. There will those who have horded all of the seed and those who have horded all of the farmland and those who have access to the cleanest water and those who have massive stockpiles of fuel. When you start talking big, perishables no longer work for trade. You need something relatively small and portable that has an agreed upon value. Gold and silver provide that.

Yet another floating lights out wingel bat!

Gold nor silver will have an agreed upon value that anyone needing to change it must recognize. You dont think your are going to hold someone to prices in the news paper when you want to change gold for 20 lbs of ham when they see your eyes sunken back into your head from starvation do you? And you with a chest full of gold. What do you think this is a charity? When you are hungry I will be the one telling you what your gold is worth friend.

Gold cant eat it, cant kill anything to eat with it, cant plant it in the ground and grow food, cant do anything but walk around like some begger looking for a sucker to take a "fair" market value for it.

Would be buyers of gold. Warning! gold prices are showing all the classic signs of being at peak. Peak is a real condition. It is what happens when a point of stablization is reached after some type of majior disruption in the system drives up gold prices.

You buy gold now the only inflation you will be hedging is the guys that sold it to you.

reply to post by Logarock



To be frank, I'd be perfectly happy if this was the peak. It would mean the economy is stabilizing and the dollar is not weakening. Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case.

reply to post by GirlGenius


Well yea who wouldnt. But we are talking about gold right?

When things get stable like this it will take another hard knock to get the prices going up again. Thats probably not going to happen however they will suck off your disposable income with high gas prices.

Originally posted by baphomet420
Everybody that is buying it to retain wealth when TSHF is also headed up the brown creek w/ no paddle. There is sonething that happened less than 100 years ago in America, where a certain president made an executive order demanding that all gold and silver bullion be turned over to the government. If you did not turn it over, and were caught, prison time... If the economy collapses completely, EXPECT that this will happen again...

A few points you might want to consider before burning Bruno at the stake.

The citizens that surrendered their Gold were compensated at the existing value of $20oz.

There was only one [1] indictment under executive order 6102, and the prosecution of that case ultimately failed...no convictions.

This, in-spite of research by two leading economists, Milton Friedman & Anna Schwartz - A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 - showing that only 21.9% of the Gold in circulation was actually rendered to the gubmn't. Wealthy insiders having advanced knowledge of the pending "confiscation" were shuffling large amounts of Gold to the safety of foreign vaults months prior to signing of EO - 6102.

With the country in the grip of a severe deflationary spiral, Roosevelt was tasked with re-inflating the economy. The strict Gold Standard stood in his way. The "confiscation" in 1933, and the subsequent revaluation of Gold to $35oz in 1934 enabled a 50% increase in the money supply.

What would a "confiscation" accomplish today ? We no longer operate under the monetary constraints of a Gold Standard. We can simply raise the debt ceiling and QE to infinity...or haven't you noticed ?

And who will "they" confiscate from...their wealthy cronies ? In 1933 Gold circulated as currency, many folks carried it in their pockets. Read the international comps, contrary to popular misconception very few Americans own Gold today...most have never even touched a Gold coin.

The only confiscation you should be concerned with is the ongoing stealth confiscation of your purchasing power....

with every POMO...every crank of the Fed's electronic printing press.

Get smart. Stop promoting popular myths and wives tales about precious metals, and please guys, stop using the term "Goldbug" in a pejorative context (that's what "they" want you to do).

If protecting a percentage of one's hard earned purchasing power is tin foil...consider me wild eyed - gone round the bend - plum loco.

Originally posted by Logarock
Would be buyers of gold. Warning! gold prices are showing all the classic signs of being at peak. Peak is a real condition. It is what happens when a point of stablization is reached after some type of majior disruption in the system drives up gold prices.

You buy gold now the only inflation you will be hedging is the guys that sold it to you.

Several trollish posts in a row!

Well, anything intelligent to contribute?

"Warning!" Gold is showing "all the classic signs of being at peak".

Care to share any specifics? Oh... You don't have any, you're just talking out your behind? That's what I thought.

And gold is at a "peak" in terms of what exactly? US Dollars? Is that what you measure by, or should it be the other way around?

Oh... You have no idea what I'm talking about? I thought so...

JR

The current decline is within normal market movement to that extend how it behaved in the short past time.
Heck It is barely visible on the 10 year graph and if you look at it it just falls under the "noise" category.
I don't say there is no market manipulation, just that if there is it doesn't change the trend.

A substantial drop like in 2008 is highly unlikely imo. I think it will probably resume with the same pace after a maximum decline to 1300.

But I would be very much content if we would have a crash to below 1000 to buy

reply to post by Logarock


Yeah? I don't think I have heard of that movie. Is that for sure the name? I'd like to scope it out.
Is it post apocalyptic? I love P.A. movies.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by larphillips

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You can't eat gold or silver. If you want to hedge TEOTWAWKI .. buy bulk food, survival items, etc.
I've never understood the drive for people to buy silver or gold for TEOTWAWKI.

It's all about portability of wealth. You might have stocked up on supplies and whatnot, but what happens when you want to trade? Small bits evenly exchanged for other small bits are all well and good, but when you need to trade for something big, you can't exactly cart in 15,000 sandwiches. No man is an island, and no one person or group will have everything needed to survive. There will those who have horded all of the seed and those who have horded all of the farmland and those who have access to the cleanest water and those who have massive stockpiles of fuel. When you start talking big, perishables no longer work for trade. You need something relatively small and portable that has an agreed upon value. Gold and silver provide that.

Yet another floating lights out wingel bat!

Gold nor silver will have an agreed upon value that anyone needing to change it must recognize. You dont think your are going to hold someone to prices in the news paper when you want to change gold for 20 lbs of ham when they see your eyes sunken back into your head from starvation do you? And you with a chest full of gold. What do you think this is a charity? When you are hungry I will be the one telling you what your gold is worth friend.

Gold cant eat it, cant kill anything to eat with it, cant plant it in the ground and grow food, cant do anything but walk around like some begger looking for a sucker to take a "fair" market value for it.

That's awesome that you are so incredibly misinformed. The more poor fools like you out there allow for those of us with a sense of history to last a lot longer through the difficult times, and come out way ahead, on the backs of people like you. Please, keep up that attitude... and tell your friends.

reply to post by daleomaleo


You can;t say good returns this year when it's dropping and it's a good long term investemnt in the same breath. It's like saying shares will be good this year but it's a long term investment.

Worse... your an advisor.