If a state Were to leave the Union who would it Be?

Would a state be allowed to leave? I thought thats what the civil war was kinda about.
I'd first say Hawaii.
Second I'd say something like North Dakota, who would leave the Union and join Canada. I know there are a few counties along the border where many people would prefer to join Canada because they are closer to a Canadian city then an American one.

Question?
Why is this thread here? There's nothing to imply a conspiracy. I don't see how it fits in Politics and Scandals. It seems like something that belongs in BTS and with the over 8000 points since 6/27, is this just a grab for points?

Texas

It could survive on its own as a sovereign nation.

Enough young men to joing the milita.

Enough natural resources.

Yeah Texas could sucessfuly suceed and I would be the first to move down there.

Seccession from the Union is not an option.

Texas is the only state that may choose to secede because it was a country before admittance to the Union.

Any state seeking to secede will be forced back into the Union militarily.

[edit on 11-7-2004 by Nerdling]

Yes. US should set the example that Any state decides to leave the union can do so. In this case, China, Russia, etc will have no more excuse, and will follow US.

Originally posted by Nerdling
Seccession from the Union is not an option.

Thats why this is hypotheticals were discussing.

Any state seeking to secede will be forced back into the Union militarily.

Yes maybe back in 1836, but with today's media and the United States continued foreign military invovlement it would be hard pressed to reunify with force.

Today's world does not make fighting your countrymen an acceptable choice for the United States, maybe for your bassackwards sub saharan rabble of a nation, but I don't see much popular support for armed conflict.

It still stands

Seccession will be met with military force for the good of the Union. Even today I think we'd go to a conflict level.

Originally posted by AlterEgo
Question?
Why is this thread here? There's nothing to imply a conspiracy. I don't see how it fits in Politics and Scandals. It seems like something that belongs in BTS and with the over 8000 points since 6/27, is this just a grab for points?

Cute, its not a grab for points. If it was I could think of waaaay more inflamitory topics to post. This spawned out of several thread on Taiwan and the people debating the Mainland China side continually ask what if a state left........ My point totals are what they are. ITs not like I can trade them in for an airplane ticket or something. And if you check out alot of the the threads there are plenty without a conspiracy focus.....

Originally posted by Nerdling
Seccession from the Union is not an option.
Texas is the only state that may choose to secede because it was a country before admittance to the Union.
Any state seeking to secede will be forced back into the Union militarily.
[edit on 11-7-2004 by Nerdling]

Nerdling are you basing that on the Civil war? We are talking about a peacefull vote of the citizens of a state. I don't think that there is any legal basis to prevent a state thats want to leave the union from doing so.

I think it's already happened....and a long time ago at that...

Those folks at Capitol Hill, good 'ol Washington, DC, have been smashed in between Maryland and Virginia for years and they've been ranting and raving and putting out bogus mateiral and expecting the people to obide by it, but only the men and women who preside over this "District of Columbia" are the ones who eat their own garbage...

I say DC itself is the only true state in this union and we, the supposed states of the union, who in reality have already seceded long ago, are each just trying to mimc what DC has done....how can we take orders from a place that isn't even in a state itself?!

No sarcasim intended in this post, whatsoever.....

I'm from the province of Quebec and we've grown quite used to the secession (or independance, or sovereignty, call it as you want, its all the same) issue.

There's major questions that has been raised in the Quebec context that could apply to the aforementionned scenarios...

1 - If you hold a referendum, what % is enough to declare secession. Is 50%+1 enough?
2 - If the majority of, say California, votes to secede, but that the whole of, say Los Angeles, votes to stay in the Union; then can L.A. secede from a sovereign California and declare itself an sovereign city-state or a state of the USA?
3 - What currency would a sovereign Texas or California decide to adopt. Say Texas secedes and decides to keep the US dollar. Doesn't having a currency on which you have no regulation power defeat the purpose of becoming sovereign?
4 - What becomes of international treaties? If a US State would leave the Union, how does it go about getting in or getting out of NAFTA, NATO and etc.?
5 - Federal debt. How do you evaluate and agree on the relative share of a State in the Federal debt. This would be a major sticking point.

There's plenty more questions to ponder, like which countries would recognize the new sovereign State, how does this new State gets represented at the UN and other international organization, etc.

Originally posted by Nikosmo
2 - If the majority of, say California, votes to secede, but that the whole of, say Los Angeles, votes to stay in the Union; then can L.A. secede from a sovereign California and declare itself an sovereign city-state or a state of the USA?

I think I'm gonna post this idea in the prophacies and predictions forum - sounds like something LA would do!
j/k

Texas and Hawaii have both express interest and been told -NO WAY! The South wanted to, and u know the result of that. Don't expect any states to go as long as there is a strong federal government.

Originally posted by FredT
Rant, I was taken by surprise many weeks ago in Hawaii. Esp. in Kauai, the large number of Hawaii Nationalism Signs. Not exactly anti-US, more of a lets leave the Union thing.

I lived in Hawaii (briefly) in 1990 and the 'talk' then was about how to take the islands back... so many Hawaiians couldn't afford to buy their own land! Large families living in buildings with tin roofs... the younger members unable to go out on their own, even - it's so expensive there.

Since then I've been waiting for the Native Hawaiians to seize the day

Originally posted by Nikosmo
1 - If you hold a referendum, what % is enough to declare secession. Is 50%+1 enough?

Great points, but on this one...

Not every state in this union even has initiative & referendum, so a lot of states can't even instigate this without the gov't granting it.

Along, that line, for all of you people who think our gov't is out of control..... if enough states had initiative and referendum (where the people alone through petition can put an issue on the ballot) then it would default to the federal gov't in general (meaning it would be a national perogative). I don't follow the issue anymore since I now live in a state that has it. At first I was thrilled, now I think it is just a mess. People put things on the ballot, the public vote without being informed, and the consequences have yet to hit the fan. Oh well.

Originally posted by Nikosmo
4 - What becomes of international treaties? If a US State would leave the Union, how does it go about getting in or getting out of NAFTA, NATO and etc.?
5 - Federal debt. How do you evaluate and agree on the relative share of a State in the Federal debt. This would be a major sticking point.

I think the state would have to negotiate the treaties all over again. We have actual precidence for this I think. When the Soviet Union split, the breakoff countries did not seem to be bound by the USSR's treaty obligations. Russia was..
The federal debt was on point I forgot to take into account. No doubt a portion of that would go with the state. But it would be tied up in court for a long time.....

Why can't the terrorists get nukes and attack PR? That would kill two birds with one really larg rock. Well boulder actually. Well, maybe a small hill in fact. Or say a few mountains. Alright it would be killing two birds with one texas size astroid, but you get my point.

I want florida to join Cuba, they have more Cubans than Cuba anyways.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
I want florida to join Cuba, they have more Cubans than Cuba anyways.

Nah, Cuba has to join Canada. Canuba. Then America would be surounded (If Canada had a military)

I'd actually go out on a limb and say that Alabama or some other deep-deep south bible belt uber-conservative state would be the most likely to be crazy enough to leave. Probably citing that the US has become too liberal or some such like that.

Will the US respond? Oh yes and the state in question will be back in Union hands by the end of the week. The Americans would mobilize the reserves, and flood the state with troops, any national guard or state troopers that want to stand up to em, probably will but it will be a futile effort. The incident at Ole Miss in the 60s showed what even a few federal agents can do to shut down uppity state troops bent on state's rights.

No one state could hold up against the US military, not even for a month. In today's era of decapitaton strikes, mobile infantry, amphibious landings and paradrops no state's milita could last. The capitol would be taken almost instantly, as would any major cities, and the fed troops could just wash through the backcountry without encountering any real organized resistance. I also believe that most of the state's defenders would just give up as soon as they saw that the feds were shooting real bullets at them, no matter what state they're from.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral

Forget secession, lets make a new state on an island.

Check out www.privateislandsonline.com...

You can get islands for cheap and there is a story about how this guy built up coral reefs around his island to "remove the sphere of influence" so we could get an island in Georgia... Sea Island, Jekyll Island, etc... and build a big bunker around it then declare it our own nation... ATSissipi and then after about a week of everyone who lives there flaming eaching other (I mean setting each others houses on fire) we'll simply apply for state ship (where do we get an application btw...) and become the 54th state in the Union after Even Newer Mexico (Formerly Known as Iraq), Puerto Rico, and the Marshall Islands