Welfare Tab For Children Of Illegal Immigrants Reaches $600M

I have read through all the responses here - and I have yet to see a CLEAR understanding of "welfare".

Let me tell you what it IS and what it is FOR:

It is to CONTAIN people.

It has NOTHING to do with "bleeding heart Liberals" passing out money because "they care".

What it is - is to keep the lowest classes DOCILE so they don't come to YOUR HOUSE and rob you blind.

Why are immigrants given this? Via their "anchor babies"? Because the Corporate Overlords want CHEAP LABOR. Give them their Section 8 housing and medical care and you can use them for minimum wage as store workers, etc. Which they pretty much have to do - if they want "more". Those who are living "high on the hog" on welfare are anomalies who are exploiting loopholes. The original idea is to "keep alive" people - just enough - so they won't riot as well as using them for cheap labor.

NONE of the basic concepts of welfare have ANYTHING to do with "helping people".

It is meant to just keep people "alive enough" to keep them from rioting and taking YOUR stuff, and at the same time - encouraging and building a "cheap" labor force. Sure a slim few of them will be "helped" by going on to bigger and better things - but the majority of it is simply in place to keep people CONTAINED and not breaking into YOUR house for money to survive on.

It still goes on because the laws have yet to catch up with outsourced jobs. Once that happens - you will see welfare cut. Because less cheap labor is needed. And/or we'll go into a "North American Union" - in which case most illegals will no longer be an issue. Or won't be "helped" anyway.

They'll likely still let the Polish and other EU people in - as most in the US want more "white babies". And, these people are willing to work at low level jobs - just to "get in".

reply to post by Cuervo

Sorry... I just thought with a post like that you were probably not an American, my bad.
Then shouldn't your post read as:
"Our" economy is crashing
"We" don't make anything"
"Our" ss running out/boomers above"us"
Hmmm OK..I think I'm out of this one.


"Not to be rude but this IS my own country. Presumptuous little man, you. You missed my point completely, however, so let me condense it:
1.Your economy is crashing.

2.It is crashing because you don't MAKE ANYTHING.

3.China and other manufacturing giants are taking the lead.

4.Your social security is running out because of the baby boomers above you.

5.Without a younger, larger population you will not recover.

6.You will also never become a manufacturing giant EVER AGAIN with the current population trends.

7.This country will die without immigrants. It is here because of immigrants. If you exist in 25 years, it will be attributed to the immigrants."

reply to post by mtnshredder



It's okay, man; I think we both can walk away with some valuable advice from these conversations.

To the rest of you: I think the biggest problems with this thread are two contrasting sides that don't understand each other. The people lucky enough to be born here don't seem to understand how welfare works and people who are here without proper documentation do not understand the stigmas attached to their transient nationalities.

Most heated debates like this can be cooled once people admit they don't understand completely. I bet the people who are freaking out about "welfare" could not properly explain how the system works or why. Just like the healthcare debates or socialism or anything else that has several assumptions polluting the verbal waters... nobody who is hostilely combatting the ideologies being discussed can ever give a definition of it.

People just seem to agree with whatever personality on TV who dresses like them says... or a radio personality who likes the same sports teams, beer, music, etc. People take those sort of qualifications and let people do all their thinking for them. Just because somebody else likes the same Nascar beer that you do, does not mean you should follow their sociological prejudices. Educating yourself is the most important thing anybody can do and it is why mainstream media is so scared of you doing so.

Originally posted by Enter Ruin

Originally posted by gougitousakusha
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

i know a dude in jail for car theft and assault, has 13 children to 9 people, 5 grandchildren and hes 39

I had a bunch of friends in High School and College who were illegal, now they graduated (most of them with honors), paid themselves college tuition, etc, and want to go higher. They could make this country a better place, but instead they have to work at a McDonalds (for example) because they can't put their skills to the test (3 of them could be doctors by now, 4 psychiatrists, and 2 teachers) but because they have no social security number, they don't exist (figuratively speaking). By the way, 5 of them are Latinos, and 4 Asian.

This is a PRIME example of why coming legally benefits not only us but also those who want to better themselves.

There are illegals who get shafted as well. Whether working under atrocious circumstances with no recourse or being victimized and being unable to report it because they too are breaking the law. This happens frequently. Employers know they can get away with paying little to nothing, making them work an incredible amount of hours, and even blackmailing illegals to do their dirty work because who is going to risk reporting them if you are terrified of being deported? These employers need to be shut down. They are a big problem as well. And I don't give two halves of a da*n who someone is, treating them like slaves is unacceptable IMO. I may not want to pay for illegals out of pocket but enslaving ANYone by use of threats and fearmongering is intolerable.

Your friends worked very hard and that is commendable. But by not going legally through the system they have a big hill to climb. They surely know enough to file for legalizationso they can use the skills they learned to contribute to society. From what you say, they paid their own way. Most people only have issues when they have to foot the bill for people who continue to break the law.

When the law is broken it leaves the gate wide open for abuse on both sides. The illegals need to take the legal route for their own protection, and we need to quit putting such a strain on our own system by giving money to those who want to sneak in the back door to obtain it.

Both derive great benefits from taking the legal route. A win/win scenario.

reply to post by Havick007


I could get into details of how the GDP works when it comes to manipulation of government data, do not believe the propaganda.

Is many threads in ATS that have great information on the real numbers that counts when it comes to US GDP, trust me, when I say that what the government is giving out is not reliable at all.

Our economy is an illusion prop by manipulated data and interest rates.

reply to post by maybereal11

I don't trust Idealogically driven rhetoric, I trust well researched facts.

hmmmm, this statement coming from the poster who quotes Ford Foundation rhetoric ... you really should check your sources ... they are far from centrist, farther from truthful and well beyond reasonable. Enjoy your nirvana.

Originally posted by maybereal11
The Children are not Illegal, they are US Citizens.
Deporting one parent would increase the dependancy on welfare not reduce it. Single moms, often divorced or abandoned are the largest recipients of welfare.

Actually, the children are born with a Right of Citizenship which is not technically or legally applicable to themselves until age 18 (like every other American child - or younger, if legally emancipated)

My question for you would be, what 'special' rights do you think they have (children of illegals) that American children do not????
American children born to criminals are removed and placed as a ward of the court ... why should ANY child of an illegal/criminal be treated differently?

Deport only one illegal parent???? - why?
If the illegal parents are forced to choose between themselves (with their children) for deportation or themselves (without their children) ... what do you think the most likely choice would be ???
I'm guessing the influx of children born to illegals, would likely return to claim their citizenship at or after age 18, but would most likely accompany their parents until such time, wherever they may go. (just like most American children already do)

So, back to the issue ... the children are not any more 'entitled' than their illegal parents (so says the law). Why should we re-write, re-establish or redo laws that already exist but are seldom enforced? Wouldn't it be more prosperous, convenient, effective and certainly more desirable to enforce existing laws?

reply to post by Golf66


Are you seriously comparing illegal immigrants to stray cats? Wow, you're a heartless bastard. I bet you're the reincarnation of a protestant from the early 1900s hurling rocks at italian immigrants

Originally posted by Enter Ruin
Just so you know Illegal Immigrants pay taxes too...

Originally posted by Golf66
If you want to give to charities that feed illegal immigrant children feel free it is your right but stealing from the taxpayer to do it is illegal and wrong.

Oh, how I pity those who rely on Fox News to get their information in a daily basis...
Those "illegal immigrant children" are AMERICAN CITIZENS for your info. Taxpayers are paying money to keep other American Citizens alive, but strangely enough, I don't see you ranting about you paying even MORE for taking away the lives of other children... is it because they're not American but Israelis? Oh the humanity... how selfish of you.. and conservatives claim they're religious and stuff.. I haven't seen such hypocrisy since the Bush era and 9/11.

Originally posted by Golf66
Besides the illegals are like stray cats - you feed them cause you feel sorry for them then they start to expect it and hang around breeding until you can no longer afford too. Once you stop feeding them then they get destructive.

What's that supposed to mean? lol

First, NO illegal pays 'income taxes' legally, period. EVER (and those are the taxes that support welfare programs ... not gas taxes or sales taxes or any other taxation)

yes, they pay tax on their beer, booze, smokes, party favors and vehicles ... other than that, they provide minimal benefit but exorbitant problems. They do not contribute to the tax base that SUPPORTS them. They do not contribute to the COMMUNITIES that support them. And they do not even cooperate with the law enforcement compelled to 'protect' them.
So, do tell us ... what benefit do we, as Americans, derive from their mere presence?

oh and btw ... this statement of yours belies your position ...

I haven't seen such hypocrisy since the Bush era and 9/11.

... either you haven't lived long enough to project an informed opinion, produced any offspring of your own or simply don't care to know the truth ... so which is it?

Originally posted by Cuervo
Not to be rude but this IS my own country. Presumptuous little man, you. You missed my point completely, however, so let me condense it:

1. Your economy is crashing.
   
2. It is crashing because you don't MAKE ANYTHING.
   
3. China and other manufacturing giants are taking the lead.
   
4. Your social security is running out because of the baby boomers above you.
   
5. Without a younger, larger population you will not recover.
   
6. You will also never become a manufacturing giant EVER AGAIN with the current population trends.
   
7. This country will die without immigrants. It is here because of immigrants. If you exist in 25 years, it will be attributed to the immigrants.
   

so let me get this straight ... you say "this IS my country" ... then clarify with "YOUR economy is crashing" ... interesting insight foreigner.

China can take the lead ... lead changes happen all the time in a good race. But, they better keep peeking over their shoulder cause America is NOT out of the race by a longshot.

"Your social security is running out because of the baby boomers above you" - wrong again.
SS is depleted because Congress keeps pilfering the pocketbook (for decades now)

'Without a younger, larger population you will not recover." -- proof please, otherwise your rhetoric is BS and the rest of your repugnant rant isn't deserving a response.

Originally posted by Enter Ruin

Originally posted by gougitousakusha
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

i know a dude in jail for car theft and assault, has 13 children to 9 people, 5 grandchildren and hes 39

I had a bunch of friends in High School and College who were illegal, now they graduated (most of them with honors), paid themselves college tuition, etc, and want to go higher. They could make this country a better place, but instead they have to work at a McDonalds (for example) because they can't put their skills to the test (3 of them could be doctors by now, 4 psychiatrists, and 2 teachers) but because they have no social security number, they don't exist (figuratively speaking). By the way, 5 of them are Latinos, and 4 Asian.

well ok then, obviously the real story here is after 18-20 or more years of taking FULL advantage of American liberties (education) whilst contributing NOTHING, they whine about 'working' (any job) and still YET, haven't acquired their citizenship (SSN) ... and we're supposed to feel what about this situation exactly???

oh, and let's not forget, even in your example ... Latinos (which include Mexicans), at a greater ratio than the other group listed, still overuse, over-abuse and continue to complain about the opportunities GIVEN to them.

Well, i'm glad most Americans still have some sense of dignity ... cause that will be our primary saving grace.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Cuervo
Not to be rude but this IS my own country. Presumptuous little man, you. You missed my point completely, however, so let me condense it:

1. Your economy is crashing.
   
2. It is crashing because you don't MAKE ANYTHING.
   
3. China and other manufacturing giants are taking the lead.
   
4. Your social security is running out because of the baby boomers above you.
   
5. Without a younger, larger population you will not recover.
   
6. You will also never become a manufacturing giant EVER AGAIN with the current population trends.
   
7. This country will die without immigrants. It is here because of immigrants. If you exist in 25 years, it will be attributed to the immigrants.
   

so let me get this straight ... you say "this IS my country" ... then clarify with "YOUR economy is crashing" ... interesting insight foreigner.

China can take the lead ... lead changes happen all the time in a good race. But, they better keep peeking over their shoulder cause America is NOT out of the race by a longshot.

"Your social security is running out because of the baby boomers above you" - wrong again.
SS is depleted because Congress keeps pilfering the pocketbook (for decades now)

'Without a younger, larger population you will not recover." -- proof please, otherwise your rhetoric is BS and the rest of your repugnant rant isn't deserving a response.

Yes, I am a citizen. I know that many Americans like to think that anybody with values demonstrating anything other than blind selfishness and xenophobia must be a "foreigner" but I'm not. I am a citizen of the United States of America and I'm a stout believer in our founding principles which happen to include immigration. I don't understand why you think your parents (or grandparents or great grandparents) somehow "closed the door" behind them or why they would even have the right to do so. Many of you complain that the undocumented workers do not pay into the system that feeds welfare families. And you are right! So freaking make them documented!

As far as what you say about SS not being depleted because of the baby boomers, just take a look at census statistics throughout the last 70 years and you can clearly see where there would be a problem. They knew when that generation was cropping up that, unless they continued to produce, SS would be in trouble. It's a pyramid scheme (not in a bad way) so if you have a reduction in people below you, there will be nobody to support the top. Any preschooler with the motor skills to draw a pyramid can demonstrate this to you with your own family portrait. I don't need to prove that to you any more than I need to prove to you that 3 is more than 1 or that fire is hotter than ice; it's self evident.

reply to post by Cuervo


So if the latinos are going to 'save' our social security because they have a lot of kids, how many children will their grandkids and great grandkids have to have to keep social security going for the Latinos?

reply to post by Night Star


I have never thought of that. It boggles the mind to even try to figure it up!


Star

reply to post by Night Star



They aren't helping specifically because they are having a lot of children; they are helping because they are immigrating, for the most part, as a labor-ready work force that could be inducted immediately to start paying taxes.

I see why you are asking that though, fair question. The only reason we need a large influx of workforce now is because we are much smaller than the previous two generations. If not for that phenomenon, we would be (and will be again) perfectly sustainable with an evened out population. In other words, we don't need to keep increasing all the time, we just need a small bump to make up for the baby-boomers. Having tons of children is not an immigrant mystique and I certainly hope you weren't insinuating such. If you think immigrants have more children than non-immigrants because of welfare, then our government needs to get them documented and paying income taxes. It's nearly impossible to get welfare if you are a legally married citizen in this nation so legalizing the "illegals" would solve the problem right there.

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe




You want to come here? Come legally. Do it the right way. Don't come through the back door expecting to recieve a free ride! It's not racial. It's fair.

LOL

People kill me with their anti-immigration stances. If you were in these people's situation you would be doing the same; breaking laws to provide a better life for you and your family.

The core of the problem is something no one wants to discuss: our entire monetary system and economy is flawed. I am not referring to just the United States but the world as a whole. The entire system is a joke. Everything should be completely free and the only thing people should focus on is education.

And yes I am a hypocrite. I use money all the time and live like everyone else. I am just one and don't have the power to change anything. I am a slave to the system like everyone else. But I really could care less when someone abuses the system (such as this case involving illegal immigrants and welfare). The system deserves to be disrespected so i don't give a damn.

Originally posted by kj6754

People kill me with their anti-immigration stances. If you were in these people's situation you would be doing the same; breaking laws to provide a better life for you and your family.

I have stated in this thread that I could not blame. I blame the shoddy system. People will always do what try can get away with.

The core of the problem is something no one Everything should be completely free and the only thing people should focus on is education.

The question then is why bother furthing your formal education if you can't use it to make more money in your career or achieve a higher title in the workplace? If we make everything free then everyone works for free. We all eat our free socialist cookies and produce nothing of quality because there is no incentive to care.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


312 million legal citizens of The United States of America = $1.93 per citizen goes to some hungry kids.

What $1.93 buys you:

4 Cigarettes
1 Beer
A cup of Coffee
A Bag of Chips

Originally posted by Cuervo
Yes, I am a citizen. I know that many Americans like to think that anybody with values demonstrating anything other than blind selfishness and xenophobia must be a "foreigner" but I'm not. I am a citizen of the United States of America and I'm a stout believer in our founding principles which happen to include immigration. I don't understand why you think your parents (or grandparents or great grandparents) somehow "closed the door" behind them or why they would even have the right to do so. Many of you complain that the undocumented workers do not pay into the system that feeds welfare families. And you are right! So freaking make them documented!

As far as what you say about SS not being depleted because of the baby boomers, just take a look at census statistics throughout the last 70 years and you can clearly see where there would be a problem. They knew when that generation was cropping up that, unless they continued to produce, SS would be in trouble. It's a pyramid scheme (not in a bad way) so if you have a reduction in people below you, there will be nobody to support the top. Any preschooler with the motor skills to draw a pyramid can demonstrate this to you with your own family portrait. I don't need to prove that to you any more than I need to prove to you that 3 is more than 1 or that fire is hotter than ice; it's self evident.

I never questioned IF you were a citizen .. your comment clarified the truth, thanks anyway.
and just which of my 'values' have you evidenced, witnessed, evaluated or even been subject to in any shape or form?
*yeah, didn't think you could find one or even claim to know anything about me* but thanks for revealing yourself via your personal attack ... THEY are getting old and repetitive, you really need a new shtick.

i'm all for LEGAL immigration but that isn't this discussion or any part of it ... care to stay ON TOPIC?
who is 'closing the door' ??? it's been wide open all the days of my life (1/2 century or so) regardless of how much i and my ancestors have personally paid to secure the entry.

Many of you complain that the undocumented workers do not pay into the system that feeds welfare families. And you are right! So freaking make them documented!

hahahahahehehehaha ... aren't you funny ?? and i would suppose you want the convicted, incarcerated criminals to vote too, right?

you are sooooooo clueless about SS, it isn't worth my time educating you.
However, here's one caveat ... those who legally collect retirement benefits, ALREADY paid.
(not the other SS benefits available)
You and your generation are supposed to be paying for your OWN retirement benefit.
That is how the program was designed to work ... but, with new leadership, designs often change, don't they? and just how do you figure the census (always less than factual) provides any info on SS?

IF you're going to make a point, you NEED to prove it ... that is how it works.
No proof, no point.

self-evident also = if it's stolen, it's no longer available when you need it.
kinda like most 401Ks or most general investments (over the last 2 yrs) or simply my rake. you steal it, i need it, guess who goes without?

your logic even fails you ... if you are an American, you should really take advantage of the educational opportunities before you, everyone else seems to be.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Cuervo

 

So if the latinos are going to 'save' our social security because they have a lot of kids, how many children will their grandkids and great grandkids have to have to keep social security going for the Latinos?

star for you
this must be the 'connection' to feral feline colonies and their replication abilities.
1 unfixed female can produce over a hundred thousand felines in ONE year of seasonal pregnancies. Imagine that times millions of illegal immigrants and you might begin to see the whole picture. kudos for your mathematical insight !!