Welfare Tab For Children Of Illegal Immigrants Reaches $600M

Originally posted by Golf66
no one wants to repeal the Constitution; just an Amendment to it...

And I am not going to hurt your car, just get rid of the starter.

Originally posted by macman
It is nice to talk about original intent and so on for Citizenship, but it does not take away from the fact that tax dollars are going to the children of illegals.

"the children of Illegal Immigrants" is just as factual as "US Citizens"...and seeing as it is not illegal to be a child of an illegal immigrant I would say that the fact that they are "US Citizens" is the most relevant factor....and the Gov. agrees when they provide security for these citizens the way they do every other citizen.

reply to post by maybereal11

As US Citizens they warrant the same social insurance that every otehr American citizen qualifies for.

Yes they do and when they're old enough (18) that they do not legally have to have a parent or guardian, they're welcome to come back. I hope they realize when they come back over legally to receive their rights and their SS check, that it will all be gone and supporting illegals will be a big part of the reason why. If we're bankrupt now and we are, wait till you have, say 5x's the current population we have now in the US, having a descent quality of life will be next to impossible. We will be a third world country eventually at the rate we're going. Our states need to declare bankruptcy now, doesn't that tell you anything? You think it will get better the more people we add to the system? Why should we sacrifice our quality of life for people not willing to fix their own in their own country? Mexico has all the resources they need to repair their country but they don't want to put in the effort to do so, that's not my problem, even though they want it to be.

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

Don't want to burst your bubble but if you really want to get upset about misuse of your tax dollars, why don't you check out the rising cost of "Corporate Welfare" in your county. Just beware of the fact that it disguises itself in many forms ranging from tax subsidies and abatements to free access to public lands and resources as well as public funding of R&D.

Personally, I'd rather spend my tax dollars helping people who need help as opposed to subsidizing corporations which are making record profits year after year while outsourcing every possible aspect of their business, destroying the american standard of living in the process.

Great point Flatfish, but it is much easier to thrust your anger and frustration at a foe that is powerless. Those corporations, they got teeth.

Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by maybereal11

 

As US Citizens they warrant the same social insurance that every otehr American citizen qualifies for.

Yes they do and when they're old enough (18) that they do not legally have a parent or guardian, they're welcome to come back.

Having a legal parent or guardian is not a neccessity of citizenship, nor is age as any orphan will tell you.

The simple fix is to make one only eligible for citizenship if both parents are already citiznes not if you are born on a countires soil because your parents entered illegally or on a temporary passport.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by macman
It is nice to talk about original intent and so on for Citizenship, but it does not take away from the fact that tax dollars are going to the children of illegals.

"the children of Illegal Immigrants" is just as factual as "US Citizens"...and seeing as it is not illegal to be a child of an illegal immigrant I would say that the fact that they are "US Citizens" is the most relevant factor....and the Gov. agrees when they provide security for these citizens the way they do every other citizen.

Great. Send the illegal parents packing and give them a choice, take the kid back or become a ward of the state.

Easy enough.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by macman
It is nice to talk about original intent and so on for Citizenship, but it does not take away from the fact that tax dollars are going to the children of illegals.

"the children of Illegal Immigrants" is just as factual as "US Citizens"...and seeing as it is not illegal to be a child of an illegal immigrant I would say that the fact that they are "US Citizens" is the most relevant factor....and the Gov. agrees when they provide security for these citizens the way they do every other citizen.

Great. Send the illegal parents packing and give them a choice, take the kid back or become a ward of the state.

Easy enough.

Well that is often exactly what happens...without the choice thing. And parents lose custody while they are incarcerated. It should be noted that taking the child as a ward of the state is massively more expensive to the taxpayer than the alternative.

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by maybereal11


At least the money goes solely to the child and not to the child through the illegal parents.
As for them loosing custody? Don't commit a crime.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by maybereal11

 

As US Citizens they warrant the same social insurance that every otehr American citizen qualifies for.

Yes they do and when they're old enough (18) that they do not legally have a parent or guardian, they're welcome to come back.

Having a legal parent or guardian is not a neccessity of citizenship, nor is age as any orphan will tell you.

It's a matter of resposibility not citizenship. If you have parents and you have not been emancipated, they are responsible for you, if they refuse responsibility they could be charged for neglect, if your parents died, then the state would step in and appoint a gaurdian until you are no longer a minor, that age being(18).

reply to post by macman


I hope that is just a rhetorical quip by someone not entirely comfortable engaging thier empathetic imagination...

Can you imagine the place they left? The risks they took and take simply to be in America?

I do not wish the loss of a child on anyone and certainly not as a penalty for comming here and doing the jobs that no one else wants to do...and doing them for pay no one else would work for....and to them that is "the good life".

They are the least of our brothers and we ask them to come here and work insane jobs for insanely low pay and then look down our noses and call them criminals.

One day we will run out of people to blame for our problems.

fox news doesn't lie or exaggerate at all.

You are all oblivious of the reality: The illegal immigrants are not really the problem, it is the LEGAL immigrants. Everyone is spouting off how the US is a "nation of immigrants"....no one seems to be aware how the immigration laws were radically changed with a bill sponsored by good ol Teddy Kennedy.

In the past, immigration was capped at 165,000 immigrants per year. THIS is how the nation was formed. NEVER were more than that number allowed in. All your tales of how badly the Irish and the Italians etc were treated are meaningless. The number was changed in 1965 to 1.6 MILLION. That's right. They suddenly decided that ONE THOUSAND TIMES MORE than ever before was desirable. Multiply that times forty years, and you will start to see that illegal immigration is NOTHING. It is a red herring to put everyone off the scent.

Now before you go off about how racist I am etc etc, I am an American, my grandparents were immigrants. I now LIVE in Mexico, and I am married to a Mexican. Mexico only allows 20 THOUSAND immigrants per year. Do you get it? 20,000 versus 1,600,000. Even though Mexico has a population more than half of the US, they only allow one EIGHTIETH as many immigrants. Isn't that a little strange? Check here if you don't know:

www.humanevents.com...

Illegal immigration here is a FELONY. You will be thrown in jail or deported, no ifs, ands, or buts. More importantly, foreigners are only allowed to have certain jobs, and very few of them. Any company caught hiring illegals will be SHUT DOWN immediately and fined big time, so they simply DO NOT. Ask Walmart what happens to them in the US for hiring all the illegals? Answer is, nothing at all. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

There is no other country that allows anywhere near this level of immigration, and especially with 90 percent from one country. Anywhere else this would be called what it is: an INVASION.

"They are taking jobs that Americans won't do" This is the biggest BS of all. They will work for less money than any Americans will, that's what. Someone will do ANY job as long as they pay enough. No one will work for less money than it takes to survive. But if they know they are going to get free this and that, pay no taxes, and get paid more money than they have ever seen in their lives, well, what do you think happens.

The largest part of the GDP of Mexico is in REMITTANCES FROM ABROAD, mainly the US. That's right, more than oil (number two) or tourism (number three). Somehow these people can go to a foreign country where they don't speak the language, and get by enough immediately to make enough money to send a lot home to Mom and Dad. If they had to jump through the kind of hoops in the US that I do here, there would be basically NONE OF THEM. This is a beautiful country, big and loaded with resources. Why is it so destroyed that everyone wants to leave? Ask yourself that as you welcome them in with open arms.

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by macman

 

I hope that is just a rhetorical quip by someone not entirely comfortable engaging thier empathetic imagination...

Can you imagine the place they left? The risks they took and take simply to be in America?

I do not wish the loss of a child on anyone and certainly not as a penalty for comming here and doing the jobs that no one else wants to do...and doing them for pay no one else would work for....and to them that is "the good life".

They are the least of our brothers and we ask them to come here and work insane jobs for insanely low pay and then look down our noses and call them criminals.

One day we will run out of people to blame for our problems.

Blah Blah Blah. Unicorns are in the corner to the left. Puppies and rainbows to the right.
I really do not care what their country was like. They still broke the law by coming here. If they want to be here, follow the law and do it the correct way.
You can't do the right thing the wrong way and expect everyone to turn a blind eye.
Why not stay in their country of origin and work to make it better, instead of bringing their issues here?

As for low pay? Are you kidding me. The guys last summer doing dry wall were making $25 an hour., under the table CASH. Driving new trucks and doing as they please.
Spare me the bull of low paying jobs.

Oh boo hoo, I look down my nose at them. If they committed a felony then that is deserved.
I am tired of people claiming pity after they broke the law, knowing it was illegal, dangerous and may get them incarcerated.

Originally posted by Honor93

everyone has a CHOICE ... that is what makes the situation so bad. Those who've already broken our laws, choose to continue doing so.

So, if i rape your child and get away with it, does that give me the right to continue raping whomever crosses my path because i choose such ?
should i be given equal freedom as the next citizen or punished for my actions?
sorry, but your 'excuse' just doesn't fly with me.

You cannot seriously be comparing illegal immigration to rape. If you really think, ethically, it's one in the same, then you're sick, and this really isn't helping your character.

Originally posted by Honor93

why do you equate 'something better' with breaking our laws and cheating the system?
(not your parents specifically but everyone who is present today, illegally)
how would you feel if i imposed my 'illegal methods' on your family and finances?

Immigrants are going to come to America, regardless, so there's no way of stopping the flood of people, ever. What the United States has to understand is that the influx will not cease, or subside. The only solution is to change our current laws and allow the flow of immigrants to enter the U.S. legally.

Originally posted by Honor93

wrong ... illegal entry has always been a problem. Just not so widespread, not so 'public' (thanks to the internet) and often (back then) many were 'sponsored' ... which is another path of legal entry and one reason so many illegal 'seniors/elders' are getting their citizenship these days --> so they can 'sponsor' the remainder of their foreign family, legally.

Well it's interesting that even when immigration was not so "public" as you claim, America was thriving in terms of employment. The nation's workforce increased 6-fold during the 20th century, but then we started outsourcing jobs, and our economy began to dwindle.

Originally posted by Honor93

and, just when did i 'generalize' regarding any issue other than "they are illegal" ... which applies to ALL, regardless of their desire to 'better' their lives. And on that point, IF they really wanted to better their lives, why delay acquiring citizenship? unless it was never their intention from the beginning.

I misread the previous statement. Well, in that case, only THEY are to blame, not the immigrants as a whole. All of them don't delay obtaining citizenship.

Originally posted by Honor93

what makes you think i didn't? were you there to see those who did get hired? (hint: i was) guess how many didn't even speak English? (6 out of 8) guess how many weren't even 21yrs old? (4 out of 8) guess how many arrived with -0- documentation but got a job, anyway? (3) and lastly, guess how many of those Goodwill is paying for 'schooling' to do the work they were hired to perform? (2 - driver training / after getting a license)

Now, i am not bitter about the situation ... but i am not blind, either.
but here's the kicker ... Goodwill gets tax incentives to hire them, rather me or anyone in a similar position.
i totally agree the employer situation needs attention but stopping the flow of available 'incentives' is a good place to start, imho.

Hmmm, well this I can't seem to answer. The only thing I could say is, there needs to be constructed, a better set of laws dealing with the immigration issue, because, like I said, it's not going away. So we need a way to help American citizens, and immigrants coming from, wherever it is they're coming from, feel satisfied with the situation.

reply to post by maybereal11



Further more, I have no issues in empathy. I have issues when the Govt uses empathy to dole out tax money to people in the idea of welfare.
Sure I guess it has its place, for no more then a year. Then it is just turned into a way of life and how a person lives.
Now, I fully agree that people, churches, communities and family can and should help.
But being forced into it via law is theft anyway you put it.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

But he argues that the money is collected by the illegal immigrant parents, putting a painful burden on taxpayers, including those who are legal immigrants.

Who really gives a sh!t! Children are children, regardless of where they come from...they need support.
But hey, who could care less about those illegal immigrant children...nothing but a "burden", money is what matters.

I know right? I mean I have stated a multitude of times in this thread that I advocate starving children, abuse, murder, etc.

There is a "grey area" in everything. If you can't see any option between paying people to break the law and letting children starve to death there is nothing I can do for you.

reply to post by ledzeppelin489


All man has a choice. To say that they don't is a farce. That is only justification for doing for your fellow man, instead of teaching.

As for they can't be stopped. They sure can.
Fine, and I mean fine big the companies/corp that hire them.
Do not allow illegals to purchase land. As a US citizen, I can't go to any other country and do it. I say return the favor.
That will reduce the jobs for them and the shelter as well.
As a last resort, militarize the border.

Please save the it can't be done attitude. It can.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


Not one person here advocates abuse of children. That is a defense used to hold the Govt and tax dollars as the only source of food and money for these people.
It is a crutch.
They can take care of themselves. It is the choice of the parents to have the kid, now take care of it.
It all falls onto personal responsibility. But that gets pushed onto the all knowing, all seeing Govt.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
You are all oblivious of the reality:

In the past, immigration was capped at 165,000 immigrants per year. THIS is how the nation was formed. NEVER were more than that number allowed in. All your tales of how badly the Irish and the Italians etc were treated are meaningless.

Well someone is oblivious to reality...I just love when people scream in big capital letters...

How is this for a number....Zero...that is the percent of your claim above which is accurate...

or how about 34? the number of years between 1921 and 1965...Geez...at least check your facts before accusing anyone of being oblivious.

The peak year of European immigration was in 1907, when 1,285,349 persons entered the country.[19] By 1910, 13.5 million immigrants were living in the United States.[20]

en.wikipedia.org...

It wasn't until 1921 until the Quota act limited immigration

The American, Emergency Quota Act, also known as the Emergency Immigration Act of 1921 and the Immigration Restriction Act of 1921 (ch. 8, 42 Stat. 5, or the Johnson Quota Act) of May 19, 1921, restricted immigration into its country; the act imposed a quota that limited the number of immigrants who would be admitted from any country annually to 3%[1] of the number of residents from that same country who lived in the United States, based on the United States Census figures from 1910. Taking native-born residents into account, this calculation indicated a total of 357,802 new immigrants would be allowed annually.

In 1921, the incoming immigrant population was settled down to 198,082 from Northern and Western Europe, and 158,367 from principally Southern and Eastern Europe (including other countries), being shown as a drastic reduction in immigration levels from other countries, principally Southern and Eastern Europe. This also portrays a 3% level in reduction. This was due to the Emergency Quota Act of 1921.

en.wikipedia.org...