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Welfare Tab For Children Of Illegal Immigrants Reaches $600M

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by Logarock
 


I am not making this a race issue..it is the people blaming the mexicans. I am aware that there are many different races coming to the country illegally and using it's resources. If you feel it is only about mexicans than maybe you should look deeper into yourself...stopping using just the mexicans...use the africans, the irish, the germans...etc...if your not just complaining about the mexicans then sorry...but for those people only using the mexicans as a scapegoat...geez...your hatred for that race is too blantant for it not to be racist.


I don't believe it's racist. I see a country being taken over by another country that doesn't take care of it's people. Anytime there is a large number of illegal immigrants, there is a problem within that country. How would Mexico feel, if a huge number of Americans illegally invaded their country and then had to push 1 for English? I know Mexico wouldn't put up with that. It's not as easy to immigrate to Mexico.

We already know according to statistics that the 'anchor' babies will be the majority very soon and with their birth record, it will keep rising. Yep, I'm all for forced sterilization after two. It may come to that ,like China.

It's not selfish to consider the consequences of over-burdening and depleting a planet of it's resources.




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Hey I am all for helping any human being regardless of race, creed, or religion as long as they deserve it. However in my opinion there is no truer statement than "you have to help yourself before you help others." Think about it. How can America have any future in helping others if we don't help ourselves first? It's simple really.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
So, after reading ALL of your posts, i now wonder if you are going to contribute to an answer or just more whining and BS rhetoric?


My solution?

To do my part to hold the tides of demagoguery that grip this nation when there is financial stress.

The need to blame the "least of our brothers".

We have much more pressing issues than Illegal Immigration, despite what you are told.

They come here and work, because Americans are unwilling to do those jobs...and believe it or not if we were to evict them all tomorrow...our economy would be devasted.

This demagoguery...blame is nothing new to this country...we did it to the Germans..The Irish...The Catholics.

"Natavist" Sentiments spurred the "Know Nothing Party"

Catholic Monastaries were burned, Irish were beaten and killed in the streets by mobs and German and other immigrants often changed thier names to hide their ethnicity. The Italians got their share of Xenophobia too.

Lord...when John Kennedy was elected there were flyers distributed all over the country saying horrific things about the irish and catholics.

Mass immigrations over decades...fear and rhetoric of them taking over the country and taking our jobs, ruining our culture!!

Natavism
en.wikipedia.org...(politics)

Know Nothings
en.wikipedia.org...

In the end? The waves of Chinese, Germans, Irish, Catholics, Italians? They created a better country...a more diverse country...a stronger country...we are a melting pot...and an alloy is stronger than steel.

My answer...stop fear mongering...stop being afraid...bring us " your tired, your poor...Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"...which is exactly how 99% of our ancestors got here, that or we were kicked out of other nations.

The lesson to the world as a whole is...the USA...a collection of different ethnicities, cultures, people that were either kicked out of...or couldn't succeed in other nations...that misfit crew banded together to create the most succesful nation the planet has seen....and we thrive BECAUSE of our differences...not in spite of them.

There have always been "Nativists" screaming about how the USA is being over run, they are taking our jobs etc. etc. For hundreds of years.




Nativism in America
As immigration from Europe increased in the early 1800s, citizens who had been born in the United States began to feel resentment at the new arrivals. Those opposed to immigrants became known as nativists.

Violent encounters between immigrants and “native-born Americans” would occasionally occur in American cities in the 1830s and early 1840s. In July 1844, riots broke out in the city of Philadelphia. Nativists battled Irish immigrants, and two Catholic churches and a Catholic school were burned by mobs. At least 20 people were killed in the mayhem.


history1800s.about.com...

There have always been people like yourself...and America has always emerged stronger because of it's immigrants...it is our nature...our greatest strength.

My solution? If they are born here...they are OURS...they are Americans....and if we want to deport the parents...then that is legal as well and we can go home to home with Immigration Officials, Department of Health and Human Services Officials, Child welfare representitives and figure out a plan to both protect the Citizen children and deport the "Illegal" Immigrant parents....but IMO we have better things to focus on then non-threats and these folks are here working as a result of strong demand in the agricultural sector doing jobs Americans won't do.

We can deport them all...and watch US farms struggle and fail, our Produce prices rise dramatically as we import produce from Mexico and other countries...our manufacturing sector will take a big hit and what we have left in the states in manufacturing will be undercut by cheaper labor abroad and we will send money abroad that we could have kept in the states etc.

It just seems silly to focus on this particular issue....but understandable...like I have shown...demogoguery is as old as our nation.
edit on 21-1-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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The "we're all immigrates" crap gets really, really old and those that see it that way, need to pull your head out of the sand. You cannot compare immigrates of today with our immigrates of the past, it holds absolutely 0,Nada,zilch merit. Our forefathers didn't come over here demanding that America pay for their babies, education, food, medical, Etc.........They were not freeloaders, they payed their own way and carried their own weight, for the most part. They wanted to be apart of America and make it great and we're proud to carry our nations flag.
Now the current batch want us to start saying The Pledge of Allegiance in spanish, banning American flags from school and allowing Mexican flags, mandatory bi-lingual printing on US documents, etc..? There's plenty of Youtube vids showing Hispanics dragging American flags in the dirt and stepping on them and desecrating our country.
Is there really anyone on this forum that's OK with that or thinks that's right?
This is the difference of immigration today and yesterday. It's not the same and you cannot compare the two and have a rational debate on this topic.
edit on 21-1-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 



I just woke up and checked on the raging battle in here to find your final post here. It reads like a summation of my heart-felt feelings on the whole issue. The irony and double-standards people are so fiercely and proudly exhibiting when this subject comes up is just... weird. I can't explain it. I can't figure out why people can get behind this "us but nobody else" mentality. I refuse to believe that all these people are just "evil" but, if I were to draw lines between those who have love for humanity and those who only love themselves, I hate to admit it but I wouldn't have that much trouble finding where to place that line.

Again... I'm not personally attacking anybody here. I'm sure that those who sound like a bad stereo type, letting little gems of xenophobia dribble out the corners of their mouths have very good justifications for it. I don't know. I just don't understand how an unblemished mind without racist influence could possibly come to the conclusion that suddenly America is no longer a nation founded on immigration.

To me, the industrious minds chasing the American dream when stepping foot on our soil is every bit more American than those trying to keep them out.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Nice to just dismiss law and rules for good feelings.
Place the rainbows, puppy dogs and unicorns aside.
The law is as such, if you do not come here through the legal process, you are by term and definition illegal and have committed a felony.
The fact that those illegals have children that are given citizenship does not make those children then the responsibility of the US citizen nor the Govt. The illegal parents are the responsible ones.

This is the basis of "The Govt needs to help me" mentality and that is what disgusts most people.
The fact that they are here and are children is not really the issue. The issue is who should pay for them?
If they parents can't provide, then the Govt should take the kids, and deport the dead beat parents.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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I don't think anyone here has a problem with an immigrant coming to this country legally and trying to obtain their piece of the pie. The issue is with the ones that come here and abuse the system. It is all to common. I am a Police Officer and see it on a daily basis. However I also see plenty of immigrants that are legal and contribute positively to this country. I still stand by the saying "You have to help yourself before you help others." If we don't do something about the issue now, we will not be able to help people in the future.
edit on 21-1-2011 by TorqueyThePig because: Grammar



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder
Our forefathers didn't come over here demanding that America pay for their babies, education, food, medical, Etc.........


Indentured servants, slaves, people looking for free land...160 acres (Homestead act) Imported by industry to work in factories...they all came for a better life in America.

And when you refer to the above...you are talking about Americans? Right? less than 5% of welfare families have a parent that was born outside the USA and of that 5% only a small fraction are illegal immigrants.


Now the current batch want us to start saying The Pledge of Allegiance in spanish, banning American flags from school and allowing Mexican flags, mandatory bi-lingual printing on US documents, etc..? There's plenty of Youtube vids showing Hispanics dragging American flags in the dirt and stepping on them and desecrating our country.


Youtube is not the world and what you claim above is simply Xenophobic, unsupported rhetoric that is nothing new...it is very old.


This is the difference of immigration today and yesterday. It's not the same and you cannot compare the two and have a rational debate on this topic.
edit on 21-1-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)


Nope just history repeating itself...




Irish immigrants, clustered in the larger urban centers, bore the brunt of nativist ire. Seen as charity cases dumped onto American shores by a British government willing to assist immigrants in order to lessen the pressure on poverty relief, the Irish were willing to work for lower wages in unskilled jobs, taking away work from native-born Americans. Fear of Catholicism also contributed.

German immigrants, flooding America after the failed 1848 revolutions, also attracted fear and suspicion. Like the Irish, they were Catholic and did not “keep the Sabbath” the way Protestants did.

And Germans brought beer, a particular evil among New Englanders that still clung to Puritan values. Finally, Germans were perceived as socialists, identified with the various liberal movements in Europe.


Read more at Suite101: The Know Nothing Party in 1854 and 1856: The Move Against Irish and German Immigration www.suite101.com...
edit on 21-1-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

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edit on 21-1-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by maybereal11
 

Again... I'm not personally attacking anybody here. I'm sure that those who sound like a bad stereo type, letting little gems of xenophobia dribble out the corners of their mouths have very good justifications for it. I don't know. I just don't understand how an unblemished mind without racist influence could possibly come to the conclusion that suddenly America is no longer a nation founded on immigration.

We are founded on immigration and still are. We allow annually more legal immigrates into this country than any other country. How can you criticize a country that's that generous to begin with? Is that not enough for you? No xenophobia about cuervo, it's just plain and simple common sense. How many immigrates do you think we should allow in this country per yr?

Add: omitted combined, my bad.
edit on 21-1-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Cuervo
 


Nice to just dismiss law and rules for good feelings.
Place the rainbows, puppy dogs and unicorns aside.
The law is as such, if you do not come here through the legal process, you are by term and definition illegal and have committed a felony.
The fact that those illegals have children that are given citizenship does not make those children then the responsibility of the US citizen nor the Govt. The illegal parents are the responsible ones.

This is the basis of "The Govt needs to help me" mentality and that is what disgusts most people.
The fact that they are here and are children is not really the issue. The issue is who should pay for them?
If they parents can't provide, then the Govt should take the kids, and deport the dead beat parents.



I do not ignore abuses for good feelings. I just understand right from wrong. The issues that many people (you included) bring up are issues that exist in home-grown citizens even worse than in immigrants. Being an immigrant and abusing the system are two mutually exclusive concepts.
1. You can be a legal citizen and abuse the system.
2. You can be an undocumented immigrant and abuse the system.
3. You can be a legal citizen and contribute to the welfare of all.
4. You can be an undocumented immigrant and contribute to the welfare of all.

See what I'm getting at? I know that making unfair generalizations is fun and everything but it is simply not true. And I know I'll hear at least two responses telling me anecdotal evidence of how their "neighbor's sister's brother steals candy and trades said candy for drugs and then those drugs buys fake IDs so "illegals" can take our welfares and job stuffs!" Want to talk about getting old? Yeah... in order for this to ever be a fair conversation, people need to separate fact from commentary.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder
The "we're all immigrates" crap gets really, really old and those that see it that way, need to pull your head out of the sand. You cannot compare immigrates of today with our immigrates of the past, it holds absolutely 0,Nada,zilch merit. Our forefathers didn't come over here demanding that America pay for their babies, education, food, medical, Etc.........They were not freeloaders, they payed their own way and carried their own weight, for the most part.


Yup. I agree with you wholeheartedly. One cannot compare immigrates of today with immigrants of the past. Today, they depended on the charity and moral conscience of human beings living in a resource rich land, even though experiencing a financial turmoil built upon by deceptions by the greedy few, but still a resource rich nation that could feed billions if necessary for a millenia with its vast emply lands.

It is beyond compare.

In the past, the immigrants simply shot, kill the natives and took over their lands. The rest that survived were made slaves, and imposed a culture that was totally and absolutely alien in everyway to their culture..

Certainly beyond compare. Fortunately for the natives today, the immigrates are more peaceable and fully incapable of enslaving them, nor wish to. They only aspired for what the natives seek, even voluntarily subject themselves to swear upon the natives' constitution, unlike immigrants of yesteryears.

Sieg Hail Arizona!!!



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Cuervo
 


Nice to just dismiss law and rules for good feelings.
Place the rainbows, puppy dogs and unicorns aside.
The law is as such, if you do not come here through the legal process, you are by term and definition illegal and have committed a felony.
The fact that those illegals have children that are given citizenship does not make those children then the responsibility of the US citizen nor the Govt. The illegal parents are the responsible ones.

This is the basis of "The Govt needs to help me" mentality and that is what disgusts most people.
The fact that they are here and are children is not really the issue. The issue is who should pay for them?
If they parents can't provide, then the Govt should take the kids, and deport the dead beat parents.



I do not ignore abuses for good feelings. I just understand right from wrong. The issues that many people (you included) bring up are issues that exist in home-grown citizens even worse than in immigrants. Being an immigrant and abusing the system are two mutually exclusive concepts.
1. You can be a legal citizen and abuse the system.
2. You can be an undocumented immigrant and abuse the system.
3. You can be a legal citizen and contribute to the welfare of all.
4. You can be an undocumented immigrant and contribute to the welfare of all.

See what I'm getting at? I know that making unfair generalizations is fun and everything but it is simply not true. And I know I'll hear at least two responses telling me anecdotal evidence of how their "neighbor's sister's brother steals candy and trades said candy for drugs and then those drugs buys fake IDs so "illegals" can take our welfares and job stuffs!" Want to talk about getting old? Yeah... in order for this to ever be a fair conversation, people need to separate fact from commentary.


Ok, so start a thread about US citizens abusing the system and I will chime in stating its wrong all day.

This thread is about the children of illegals getting Govt money. That is wrong as well.

Deflecting rarely steers me away from the topic and facts.

So what is the retort now? Stay on topic. If the parents can't provide, then the children should become wards of the state and the parents deported. Or, the parents deported, the US citizen child goes with the parents and the child can return when they can show they can be self sufficient.
Case solved.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Removed since the poster corrected thier claim. Damn honest of them BTW.
edit on 21-1-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by gandhi
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


Making Children Illegal in the first place makes me sick.

600 million a year to keep kids alive? That's a God damn miracle.

Better than adding it on the 720 million spent each day killing kids in Iraq.


I don't know how but you read my mind. With the trillions spent on two wars spent based on lies (I mean bad intel) 600 million to feed children is a drop in the bucket. I would rather those numbers were reversed.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11 We are all products of Anchor babies, yourself included, unless you are native american.


No, this is hyperbole propagated by the left to obfuscate the issue. There are many ways one could have become a citizen most likely the majority of immigrants did so legally under the laws in effect at the time.
Citizenship wasn’t specified in the original Constitution. It was not until 1868 that the Fourteenth Amendment defined citizens as persons who were either born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction. All babies born in the United States–except those born to enemy aliens in wartime or the children of foreign diplomats–enjoy American citizenship under the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment.


Originally posted by maybereal11 Not a left/right thing, but a principle of our nation and there are plenty of prominent conservatives who found the repeal the 14th Amend thing offensive...save the BS.

It is insane that the same folks that scream about holding to the constitution are the ones that want to repeal it.


Again hyperbole, no one wants to repeal the Constitution; just an Amendment to it...

What is insane is that people would denounce another for wanting to propose a new amendment to the Constitution, which is covered in Article five of the document itself. I am all for changing the Constitution to go along with the times but the mechanism to do that is pretty clear – it is not an end around via the court system or some appointed Czar through regulations like a lot of current politicians on both sides seem to think.

There is a reason it was supposed to be hard to pass an amendment (or repeal one) because it requires a clear mandate from the people to do so.

US. Constitution


Article V - Amendment

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


edit on 21/1/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 

I'm not making it up. You're comparing stats of every country in EU to America/N America, not many migrating to Mexico or Canada. If you break it down by country I doubt it's remotely close. Read the Wiki link you posted, it's in there I'm sure.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Bankrupting the nation is part of the plan.

The people must lose trust in the government before the New World Order can be in place. Its making way for the "New World Order" or "New Order Of the Ages". Spiritual teachings, secret societies, scientists (michio kaku) and conspiracy theorists all speak of a NWO, oneness, or a global society. Its real and its happening now.

I hope everyone is aware and prepared. Just like in the Great Depression, some will get filthy rich, and others dirt poor. Depending on what fourms you visit- some people are doom and gloomers (majority of ATS are doom and gloomers)- and others believe this is the most exciting times ever. More money (and easier to make!), more freedom, more love than ever. Its all about your personal perspective. And what you focus on.

The more you focus on doom and gloom the more doom and gloom you'll perceive in your personal reality.

I'm very excited about the NWO.

What about you? Are you excited about the NWO?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by maybereal11 We are all products of Anchor babies, yourself included, unless you are native american.


No, this is hyperbole propagated by the left to obfuscate the issue. There are many ways one could have become a citizen most likely the majority of immigrants did so legally under the laws in effect at the time.


And did the "Anchor Babies"...they are no less US Citizens than our forefathers. That is law, fact and history.

As US Citizens they warrant the same social insurance that every otehr American citizen qualifies for.

The rest of the debate is about the Parents of "Anchor Babies", thier legal status and the assumption that they benefit from those social programs rather than use those services to feed US Citizens...thier children.

Assumption, false claims, unsupported BS all to serve xenophobic fear mongering.

That is just the truth of this debate.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66

Citizenship wasn’t specified in the original Constitution.


There were lots of things that were not specified in the "Original Constitution"...Article 1 Section 8 gave Congress the power to "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization" which they did with the 14th Amendment in 1868?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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It is nice to talk about original intent and so on for Citizenship, but it does not take away from the fact that tax dollars are going to the children of illegals.




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