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Welfare Tab For Children Of Illegal Immigrants Reaches $600M

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:49 AM
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Just reading the title of this thread makes it clear that the O.P clearly has an agenda to push.

"Children of Illegal Immigrants"

Surely you mean U.S. born kids right?

The animosity of the replies in this thread makes me sick to my stomach. 600 Million dollars is a lot of money, I agree on that. But yet we don't hear the same kind of animosity when AIG got $180 Billion of your tax dollars.

Also the link to your news source leads to GOP TV's website..I mean Fox News...... so yeah it might be a bit slanted and aimed to rile up middle aged white folks..which I assume run rampant here on ATS. No wonder most threads about Illegal Immigration here on this website contain nothing more than.."Ship em' back!" or "Dey Tukk er jerbs!!" also the classic "throw in some Sharks an alligators on the rio grand!"

Seriously folks, the persons that are receiving this aid are children who happen to be U.S. Citizens. But of course you will have a problem with this because the skin on most of them is slightly darker than yours.
edit on 21-1-2011 by reD3vil because: adding a few more things




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
Firstly, I apologize, Ms. Caveat. Secondly, I don't know these legal immigrants you speak of, for all I know they're incredibly indolent and refuse to look for a job, though, that's probably not the case. However, I don't think the solution is to pick on illegal immigrants, who can barely speak english, and use them as scapegoats for problems that they're not at fault at. My parents were illegal immigrants, but they always paid taxes even before they became citizens, because they understood that, in doing so, they helped sustain the economy, and not "leech" off it. What you should really be looking into is job outsourcing, the reason your acquaintances aren't getting jobs is because they're jobs are probably being outsourced. Nothing is made in America anymore I'm afraid, and THAT'S what the American people should be focusing on.

P.S. You think immigrants like fraudulent business or "taking money under the table"? No they don't, but they have no other choice. Without proper documentation they can't receive a salary...I'd try thinking before you type missy

Thank you, apology accepted.
so, what's with the "caveat" attachment? was that too big a word for you or what?
I wouldn't expect you to know the educated, Legal Immigrants i do, unless you're my neighbor or were spying on me when i visited my (Latina) attorney, last week. (educated with an Ivy League degree and a license to match)
As for 'indolent', i wouldn't go there but looking for work ?? every Attorney i know is always looking for a new case ... it's called networking.

I am not 'picking' on illegals ... i would prefer they enter legally, then there is no reason to 'pick', as you put it.

You are dreaming if you think (believe) your parents paid income taxes before they were citizens ... i'd love to see any one of those IRS returns. (unless you're willing to back that statement up, it's bbq BS)
They 'may' have worked and forfeited tax monies, but they certainly didn't PAY it as legal citizens do.
Just because one works illegally doesn't mean they contribute consciously, regardless of what you were told.

I agree with your production statement ... that's why i build, rebuild, re-furbish, repair, restore and re-purpose everything i can for myself and others. Actually, quite a few things are still "made in America", you just have to be willing to search them out AND say No to the easy, cheaper substitutes and that's a problem for all cash-strapped Americans.

As for the indolent illegals on my block ... 2 families are Hispanic, one is Bahamian, one is Dominican, another is Haitian and the newest to move in are Caucasian slackers with kids.
So, i'm well versed and living the situation, daily ... not including allllllll the immigrants (both legal and illegal) employed at Goodwill (where i was told i'm 'overqualified' for a position -- i still can't figure how that's even possible)




edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: reformat



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by ledzeppelin489
 

responding to your 'edit'

P.S. You think immigrants like fraudulent business or "taking money under the table"? No they don't, but they have no other choice. Without proper documentation they can't receive a salary...I'd try thinking before you type missy
no, i don't think such .. i KNOW such and live it, every day. You?

They certainly do have a CHOICE ... but to continue Illegally in every action IS their choice.
Illegals in FL, do have documentation ... they STEAL it, regularly.
I don't need to think before i type ... i am not creating a story ... i am reporting the facts as i live them.
Not my problem if you don't understand, experience or witness the complexity of the situation ... I do.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by reD3vil
 


What really makes me sick is that you can either not read or you can not comprehend when you do read. I stated in a post on the first page that the children were citizens if they were born here. If you would have made an effort to read more than one post you would know that.

The article itself says the childten are citizens.

If you would have paid attention you would have seen that we were discussing the adults (like the article states) that the parents get the aid for their children. Surely the children did not file all that paperwork by themselves?

Again with the AIG line... Really? Nobody wanted to pay for that bailout either, so your point is moot. Pointing out bad behavior to condone more bad behavior is ludicrous at best.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
reply to post by svpwizard
 


I will take my cold hard cash in small bills. Thanks

www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...

snippet . Illegal immigration statistics also show that as these illegal immigrants grow in number, their needs grow as well. Because illegal immigrants operate under the radar to prevent themselves from being caught, they don’t declare their income. In turn, they receive welfare benefits such as free health care. Public education is given to their children as well, as children born in the country, even when their parents are both illegal immigrants.


This sort of feeds into another point that bugs me. The undocumented workers actually benefit our nation more than anybody else. Hear me out:

1. They can not get welfare without documentation. Healthcare doesn't count; this is America... nobody comes here to take advantage of our "healthcare".
2. They still pay federal taxes as it is taken out by the employer whether or not the worker is documented.
3. Since they are not documented, the can't get tax refunds!

So, really... they pay more in taxes than citizens in their income bracket. Just a thought as to maybe why the politicians are playing cat-and-mouse and only allowing 5,000 to be documented per year (or at least used to).

Cuervo ... in an imaginary world, you could be right. However, in the US your dissertation is not correct.
Illegals STEAL identities for multiple purposes ... work, benefits, checking acct, drivers license, health care, etc .... Any illegal with 'false documentation' can access any benefit America has to offer and then some if they create a good enough tale to go with it. See it happening every day. Even at the 'day job' facilities.

Nobody comes here to take advantage of our healthcare??? Really??
Then why did the Saudi Prince travel here for his medical care?

If it were legal, i'd post a pic of our local walk-in waiting room ... most are illegals with a 'form' of documentation they hope isn't verified or they arrive with a family of 10 to treat 1 and distract the employees charged with verification ... again, it happens daily, here.

working with false documentation does NOT translate to 'paying taxes' ... nice try though.
they don't get a 'refund' or file an IRS tax form because they are ILLEGAL, period.
You wanna fix it, get legal or get out ... end of story.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by reD3vil
But yet we don't hear the same kind of animosity when AIG got $180 Billion of your tax dollars.

Seriously folks, the persons that are receiving this aid are children who happen to be U.S. Citizens. But of course you will have a problem with this because the skin on most of them is slightly darker than yours.
edit on 21-1-2011 by reD3vil because: adding a few more things

so, did you awaken on the light side or dark side of your room, today?
either way, you obviously weren't listening when MOST of America said NO to bailing out ANY of the thieves ... kinda like you're not listening when we say NO more illegal abuses.

Seriously, those children don't qualify for any 'adult' benefit of citizenship UNTIL they are adults or emancipated, period.
Children follow their parents ... and it should be the parental choice to deport with or without them. If they choose to leave the children behind, so be it ... we have established protocols to follow ... just like every child born to an American criminal. The anchor babies have no greater rights than those mentioned previously. If you are born of a criminal, you are removed and placed ... why should children of illegals/criminals be treated any differently?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93

Thank you, apology accepted.
so, what's with the "caveat" attachment? was that too big a word for you or what?
I wouldn't expect you to know the educated, Legal Immigrants i do, unless you're my neighbor or were spying on me when i visited my (Latina) attorney, last week. (educated with an Ivy League degree and a license to match)
As for 'indolent', i wouldn't go there but looking for work ?? every Attorney i know is always looking for a new case ... it's called networking.


edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: reformat


Ok they're looking for work, I get it. I wish nothing but the best for them. (not sarcasm)


Originally posted by Honor93

I am not 'picking' on illegals ... i would prefer they enter legally, then there is no reason to 'pick', as you put it.

You are dreaming if you think (believe) your parents paid income taxes before they were citizens ... i'd love to see any one of those IRS returns. (unless you're willing to back that statement up, it's bbq BS)
They 'may' have worked and forfeited tax monies, but they certainly didn't PAY it as legal citizens do.
Just because one works illegally doesn't mean they contribute consciously, regardless of what you were told.


edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: reformat


We can get into the ethics of immigration, but I'd rather not go there. But the jist of it is, a lot of these people have no other choice but to come here illegally, others just can't wait 10 years, it's just not going to happen. When you live in an impoverished part of the country and the GREATEST country on Earth is just on the horizon, you just have to go in search something better. And my parents used their foreign worker social security to file a W2 jointly. I don't know where the documents are at, at the moment, and you're probably thinking, "how convenient" but, I guess you're just going to have to take my word for it.


Originally posted by Honor93

I agree with your production statement ... that's why i build, rebuild, re-furbish, repair, restore and re-purpose everything i can for myself and others. Actually, quite a few things are still "made in America", you just have to be willing to search them out AND say No to the easy, cheaper substitutes and that's a problem for all cash-strapped Americans.


edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: reformat


And exactly why we should be focusing more on jobs being lost to other countries. Illegal immigrants have been coming here since the early 20th century but it wasn't much of a problem because jobs were still here, and products were still made in America, and not in China or other foreign countries.


Originally posted by Honor93

As for the indolent illegals on my block ... 2 families are Hispanic, one is Bahamian, one is Dominican, another is Haitian and the newest to move in are Caucasian slackers with kids.
So, i'm well versed and living the situation, daily ... not including allllllll the immigrants (both legal and illegal) employed at Goodwill (where i was told i'm 'overqualified' for a position -- i still can't figure how that's even possible)


edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: reformat


Well you can't just generalize and claim all illegal immigrants are lazy like the ones on your block; not everyone is the same. As for the Goodwill thing, you should have discussed it with the interviewer and convinced him/her that it wouldn't have been a problem. I'm sure he/she would have obliged if you were charismatic.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by ledzeppelin489
 

responding to your 'edit'

P.S. You think immigrants like fraudulent business or "taking money under the table"? No they don't, but they have no other choice. Without proper documentation they can't receive a salary...I'd try thinking before you type missy
no, i don't think such .. i KNOW such and live it, every day. You?

They certainly do have a CHOICE ... but to continue Illegally in every action IS their choice.
Illegals in FL, do have documentation ... they STEAL it, regularly.
I don't need to think before i type ... i am not creating a story ... i am reporting the facts as i live them.
Not my problem if you don't understand, experience or witness the complexity of the situation ... I do.


Again, the ethics of illegal immigration which I won't talk about.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 05:05 AM
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New update on this topic ironically enough....

Obama Intensifies Crackdown On Illegal Workers

politics.blogs.foxnews.com...



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
We can get into the ethics of immigration, but I'd rather not go there. But the jist of it is, a lot of these people have no other choice but to come here illegally, others just can't wait 10 years, it's just not going to happen.

everyone has a CHOICE ... that is what makes the situation so bad. Those who've already broken our laws, choose to continue doing so.

So, if i rape your child and get away with it, does that give me the right to continue raping whomever crosses my path because i choose such ?
should i be given equal freedom as the next citizen or punished for my actions?
sorry, but your 'excuse' just doesn't fly with me.


When you live in an impoverished part of the country and the GREATEST country on Earth is just on the horizon, you just have to go in search something better.

why do you equate 'something better' with breaking our laws and cheating the system?
(not your parents specifically but everyone who is present today, illegally)
how would you feel if i imposed my 'illegal methods' on your family and finances?


And my parents used their foreign worker social security to file a W2 jointly. I don't know where the documents are at, at the moment, and you're probably thinking, "how convenient" but, I guess you're just going to have to take my word for it.

well, your word is good enough but i think you ought to check into that W(2?) theory because if they did file a W4 under a worker visa, that is not illegally entering the country ... that was the RIGHT way to do it.
And, if they filed a W2, as you stated, then they were employers, not employees.

If they are at least as old as I, then they held 'green card' status, which (back then) was a 'step' in the process of naturalization. Some years ago, legal immigrants were required to maintain legal and lawful green card status for several years before they were permitted to complete the naturalization process. again, Legal entry.

sounds more like your parents may have been classified as 'political refugees' (much like many Haitians since the quake, just not the 'political' part)

Since you are really not sure about the details, please don't refer to them as illegal immigrants ... they may have arrived that way but they certainly didn't stay that way ... if they legitimately filed with the IRS, they weren't illegal, just emigrating to this fine country like many do, legally.


Illegal immigrants have been coming here since the early 20th century but it wasn't much of a problem because jobs were still here, and products were still made in America, and not in China or other foreign countries.

wrong ... illegal entry has always been a problem. Just not so widespread, not so 'public' (thanks to the internet) and often (back then) many were 'sponsored' ... which is another path of legal entry and one reason so many illegal 'seniors/elders' are getting their citizenship these days --> so they can 'sponsor' the remainder of their foreign family, legally.


Well you can't just generalize and claim all illegal immigrants are lazy like the ones on your block; not everyone is the same.

and, just when did i 'generalize' regarding any issue other than "they are illegal" ... which applies to ALL, regardless of their desire to 'better' their lives. And on that point, IF they really wanted to better their lives, why delay acquiring citizenship? unless it was never their intention from the beginning.

As for the Goodwill thing, you should have discussed it with the interviewer and convinced him/her that it wouldn't have been a problem. I'm sure he/she would have obliged if you were charismatic.
what makes you think i didn't? were you there to see those who did get hired? (hint: i was) guess how many didn't even speak English? (6 out of 8) guess how many weren't even 21yrs old? (4 out of 8) guess how many arrived with -0- documentation but got a job, anyway? (3) and lastly, guess how many of those Goodwill is paying for 'schooling' to do the work they were hired to perform? (2 - driver training / after getting a license)

Now, i am not bitter about the situation ... but i am not blind, either.
but here's the kicker ... Goodwill gets tax incentives to hire them, rather me or anyone in a similar position.
i totally agree the employer situation needs attention but stopping the flow of available 'incentives' is a good place to start, imho.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by macman
 

The fact that you were able to negotiate the bill down to half tells me that they seriously inflated the bill in the first place, and they still made a profit at half the bill. That's what's wrong with the health care system!

Case in point: My son dislocated his wrist about the same time my nephew broke his. My son's bill to relocate his wrist was over $3000 and my brother paid $300 to have my nephew's wrist set and casted! Two different hospitals, two radically different costs.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
Again, the ethics of illegal immigration which I won't talk about.

well why not? i don't see any ethics being employed when breaking a law? do you?

ethics - courtesy MW - 1. the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2. a set of moral principles
3. a theory or system of moral values
4. the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group
5. a guiding philosophy
6. a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness)

in light of the definition of 'ethics' ... do tell, what ethics are employed when consciously breaking laws?
i am seriously curious how you interpret or where you find an example of any ethical behavior in illegal immigration.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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People, the money is all digits on a computer & paper & ink from a printer, that's all. No real backing. Let me give you an example of how it works...

The delivery driver man from the paper mill that supply's the Federal Reserve rolls of paper to print money with, drops off a roll of the special paper Federal Reserve and says to the Federal Reserve, "Ok, that will be $200 please." The Federal Reserve says, "Ok, hold on.", then goes to the printer with a pair of scissors and from an uncut sheet of $100's, cuts out two $100 dollar bills and takes them back to the Paper Mill driver and says "Here ya go." It's that simple.

Or they can even just type the numbers 200.00 in a computer monitor window during a transfer to another computer, like a banks computer. Then an ATM representing a bank, allows bank customers to access those digits and withdraw an amount of Green ink stained paper out, which of course is the money that came from the Federal Reserves printer, which also was used to give Green ink stained paper to the Paper Mill driver.

They just print the Green ink stained paper called money or type in digits into a computer that represents the Green ink stained paper. There is no backing of gold to represent all the money or any real standard the money is supposed to be based on. The government can place or give any amount of money to anyone, any program like welfare, the military, the Banks or credit card company's. They just use that Green ink stained paper or computer digits as a form of manipulation and control because most everything revolves around it.

If the privately owned Federal Reserve wanted to give any of you a million dollar gift, all they do is print it or wire transfer to your bank, it's that simple. And no one would miss it, because it's just paper, ink & digits. They are not moving around precious metals or moving money from the federal reserve per trunk to your bank just for you and your pocket.

The Feds could easily send every freaking America and Illegal immigrant lets say $100,000 dollars by sending them a check or putting it in a bank account per digit wire transfer, and the economy would go through the roof.
No one would think that there is a drain on their tax money, which is fraud anyway.

Who controls all that, ah the money printers who also control the government.

Another thing, taxes come from your money. Your money came from your job. Your job got the money from customers. Your jobs customers got money from their jobs. Their jobs got money from it's customers. So where did the money come from besides the endless cycle? Ah, it came from banks that loaned the money to the jobs when they started up. The banks that loaned the money got it delivered to them from the printing presses of the Federal Reserve, who just prints it!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


edit on 21-1-2011 by Krummar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 

thanks for the update ... that is beyond ridiculous. (did you read it?)

Six Tyson executives faced criminal charges in the early part of the last decade, stemming from allegations that they conspired with undercover immigration officials to arrange deliveries of unauthorized workers.
Two of the executives accepted plea deals, and one committed suicide. In March 2003, Tyson was acquitted by a federal jury of having knowingly hired illegal workers. Related civil litigation remains pending.

don't know about you, but i find this just plum hilarious ... Tyson busted with their hands IN the cookie-jar, but acquitted by the Feds. It's nearly 8yrs later and civil litigation is still pending ... Why????



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


I would not have posted a link to a story I had not read. Why assume I did not? Tyson's actions don't surprise me at all. But I am surprised that the other case has stretched out so long. With the kind of money they have, they can afford to keep it tied up for as long as they please.
edit on 1/21/2011 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by SeenMyShare
 


You are absolutely correct. I spent 8 days in the ICU for pneumonia a few years back. My final bill $30,000. The itemized list of charges had me paying $10.00 for a single tylenol. If I would have known that I would have bought my own generic tylenol (200 pills for $3.50) with me. Highway robbery IMO.


edit on 1/21/2011 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 

i don't assume, i asked ... you didn't comment on the content ... is why i asked.
believe me, i am surrounded by azzzes on a daily basis, i have no desire to assume anything.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



I apologize. I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I had to put my daughter on the bus so I ran out of time to comment.
I edited my post above with a brief opinion on it. Once again the "man" comes out smelling like roses. What big government and big corp are doing (it seems) are joining forces more by the day. One hand washes the other.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by gandhi
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


Making Children Illegal in the first place makes me sick.

600 million a year to keep kids alive? That's a God damn miracle.

Better than adding it on the 720 million spent each day killing kids in Iraq.



Read what he said again please ..... that wasn't the point, although kids shouldn't suffer in any situation
edit on 21-1-2011 by VI0811 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by maybereal11

Fist off....please provide evidence that the parents are "scamming the system" rather than feeding thier children.

Secondly...the claim that children of non-immigrants are having trouble accessing welfare is not supported by the facts since the majority of welfare recipients are white.

See here

www.huppi.com...

Also see here ...
whites collect greatest share of public aid dollars
findarticles.com...


They are scaming becouse they are not citizens and they dont pay in unless they use a stolen SS number. In this respect it is a criminal interprise.These white folk at least they are citizens. I am going to say as well that other whites pay for their kind here. I say this becouse the same would be said for american mexicans if it could be shown.

To get back further behind the point mostly whites have been paying for these saftey nets, and whites mostly have been complaining about it LONG before the mexicans showed up in mass. It really is out of touch for anyone to accuse whites of just now complaining as we have been trying to get this off our backs for years.


And the "those who actually pay for it" somehow assumes that Illegal immigrants are exempt from paying taxes on every single purchase they make from Gasoline to Groceries to rent payment etc. Illegal immigrants contribute significantly to the tax base.

More so than legal citizens in some ways. For example they often pay into Social Security while having no method to ever draw from it. Some estimates put that at 9 Billion alone.

At tax time, illegal immigrants are paying too
www.msnbc.msn.com...


Yea they pay into SSI...with stolen SS numbers.

Gas is a built in tax to pay for the highway. They get gas they pay tax. But what are they paying when they use saftey net services? Little to nothing.




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