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Welfare Tab For Children Of Illegal Immigrants Reaches $600M

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
They aren't helping specifically because they are having a lot of children; they are helping because they are immigrating, for the most part, as a labor-ready work force that could be inducted immediately to start paying taxes.

oh no you don't ... no flip-floppin' unless you admit you were wrong.
you stated illegals already PAY taxes and deserve more for what they contribute ... about face ... now, you claim

they are helping because they are immigrating, for the most part, as a labor-ready work force that could be inducted immediately to start paying taxes.
... sorry but you don't get to argue from both sides of the fence. Take a position and stay there or change it ... your internal flux isn't helping at all.


The only reason we need a large influx of workforce now is because we are much smaller than the previous two generations.
again, you are sadly mistaken.
IF the previous 2 generations were substantially larger, then previous payments made should be more than sufficient ... however, those are the payments since pilfered.
You do not pay to keep the seniors, they paid all of their lives and are due their benefit.
You need to earn yours as they already have done.


It's nearly impossible to get welfare if you are a legally married citizen in this nation so legalizing the "illegals" would solve the problem right there.
confused, misled and simply wrong ... i can personally introduce you to 5 families with 2 parents each (married), who work full-time and still qualify to collect.
Unless you know what your talking about, you really should just quit while you're ahead.




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



I guess I could just use aggressive language to make me appear correct but I won't. I also never personally attacked you. For some reason, telling me I'm clueless is supposed to prove your point? Whatever. The SS issue is not paid by the generation that uses it. It was never designed that way. The baby-boomer generation paid the least and benefited the most. It's not their fault, it's just how the population waxed and then waned. This is not even something to argue about; I've never spoken to anybody even slightly confused as to why we are running out of benefits.

You think it's because of this vague notion that "they" are "pilfering" the coffers, etc, etc. Of course "they" probably are... "they" are doing that with all kinds of things but that doesn't change the way the system works nor would it be any different if "they" weren't stealing. Again... why should I prove a commonly accepted explanation? It's not like I'm trying to convince you of something conspiratorial.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93

your logic even fails you ... if you are an American, you should really take advantage of the educational opportunities before you, everyone else seems to be.



Yeah they're REALLY taking advantage of the education system, seeing as Americans are livid (you're not the only one with fancy diction Mr. "Caveat") that illegal immigrants are taking their jobs...jobs that don't require a college education =\ hmmm, yeah, they're UNQUESTIONABLY using their opportunities.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


I don't even... wow. Do you read what you type? Every single thing you tried to call me out on wasn't even true. I never "flipped flopped" nor is this some political debate. You are responsible for your own reading comprehension so I'm not going to continue to try to make you understand what I said before but you clearly didn't get it.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by GLantern101
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


312 million legal citizens of The United States of America = $1.93 per citizen goes to some hungry kids.

What $1.93 buys you:

4 Cigarettes
1 Beer
A cup of Coffee
A Bag of Chips

you have to be joking, right?
your mathematical foundation is what, exactly?
how many of those 312 million citizens are currently employed?
how many children do they each have?
how many total UNdocumented children are being provided their sustenance by legal Americans rather their own parents (legal or not) ?
(no records available for that number)
if we contribute $1.93 to some hungry children (as you imply) ... why are so many legal citizens still starving? and one more ... why are soooooo many charity food banks sporting empty shelves?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


Good points.

I'd also like to add.....

There should be certain privileges like Social Security and Public Housing that should only be available to CITIZENS either natural born or through taking citizenship out.
This would stop all the freeloaders with no rights to anything in their tracks.

Edit:
Something weird just happened. I didn't post my original reply, I edited it down, pressed post and I had 2 stars straight away.
Think they might have been for my original post? Sorry bout that.
Hope the stares weren't to the old post that I thought I hadn't sent yet??
edit on 21-1-2011 by Flighty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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reading all these post and I see 4-6 people all blowing smoke up each others ARS!!!!!

YOU DON"T HAVE A FLIPPEN CLUE, illegals are not getting anything!!! I have put up cold hard cash for anyone who can give me ONE EXAMPLE of a case in which an illegal went to SS office and collected even a dime of welfare or anything for that matter and no one can, why???? BECAUSE ITS ALL BS!!!! nothing more than fear and hate mongering.

IF anyone collects any social services or welfare they are for AMERICAN BORN CHILDREN!!!!! and by the laws in place (as crappy as they are) a child born on American soil is an AMERICAN. they are entitled to those services as any AMERICAN IS who needs and qualifies for those services.

And I know for a fact that you can't get social services or welfare not being a CARD CARING AMERICAN ...... so give it a rest.

stop being that stupid idiot regurgitating non truths like it is true, this whole thread is like a stupid email scam people talk about like its true..... IT AINT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by gandhi
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 

Making Children Illegal in the first place makes me sick. 600 million a year to keep kids alive? That's a God damn miracle.

Better than adding it on the 720 million spent each day killing kids in Iraq.


Spot on! Has anyone given a thought to the $20 Billion which has so far been doled out to Pakistan for the charade of the so called 'war on terror'? Most of this money is being siphoned off by the Pakistani military/ISI to fund the Afghan Taliban which in turn is used to kill American troops!!! This bloody well sucks to hell and high heaven!

That's not all. According to latest reports, 50,000 containers of American/ISAF goods meant for the troops in Afghanistan have gone 'missing' in Pakistan!! No prizes for guessing where they disappeared. There's a flourishing trade going on out there and many are raking in billions! What is the estimated loss? According to The Dawn news, it's approx $200 Billion!!! And the irony is that the Pakistanis are paid for every truck lost/burned! A double whammy for the American tax payer. The Pentagon by the way has admitted that there is little or no checks and balances. The loot goes on!

American tax payers hard earned dollars going down the drain in the billions!! And they talk of a minuscule $600 million being paid for the welfare of children of illegal migrants?

Jeeeez!



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by svpwizard
 


In some countries, it doesn't matter if 2 illegals have a child in the country or not.
They are asked to return home and apply for re entry legally.
Having a natural born child of the country would obviously add points to their application.
Maybe the U.S should go down that road if they haven't already?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by Honor93
 



I guess I could just use aggressive language to make me appear correct but I won't. I also never personally attacked you. For some reason, telling me I'm clueless is supposed to prove your point? Whatever. The SS issue is not paid by the generation that uses it. It was never designed that way. The baby-boomer generation paid the least and benefited the most. It's not their fault, it's just how the population waxed and then waned. This is not even something to argue about; I've never spoken to anybody even slightly confused as to why we are running out of benefits.

You think it's because of this vague notion that "they" are "pilfering" the coffers, etc, etc. Of course "they" probably are... "they" are doing that with all kinds of things but that doesn't change the way the system works nor would it be any different if "they" weren't stealing. Again... why should I prove a commonly accepted explanation? It's not like I'm trying to convince you of something conspiratorial.

like i said, don't get into a word battle with me, you are not equipped.
you did personally attack me and it's there for ALL to see.
I never used the word 'clueless' ... and i challenge you to prove i did.
typical ... argue fallacies rather facts.

you are seriously mistaken about SS ... until you get educated on the subject ... leave it ... you are only making yourself look more foolish with each statement.

The current populus has NOTHING to do with current SS retirement payments ... Apparently you haven't discussed SS with anyone in the know, either.

'they' is Congress ... don't know where you're going with that one but i clarified 'they' many posts ago.
'they' have been using the SS funds as a 'slush fund' for years ... shows what you know.

commonly accepted explanations doesn't mean they are correct. commonly accepted doesn't make it right, either. and lastly, genocide was once commonly accepted ... should we revert to such tactics?
there is nothing conspiratorial about illegal immigration or its impact on the citizens of this country.

As for what WOULD be different if 'they' weren't operating a slush fund out of SS ... for one, ALL of our seniors, ALL of our veterans and ALL of our children would have access to resources they, themselves provided.
And yes, i include the children because in my generation, we contributed. Myself running neighborhood carnivals to raise money for MD *muscular dystrophy* ... myself (age 12) operating a local 'library' utilizing my grands funding, books, space, generosity of sharing, ability and willingness to participate and my desire to help others. myself weekly *currently* providing fruit from our trees to feed the hungry ... myself *currently* because i provide food, shelter & medical for 18 homeless felines (TNRd ferals) and you know what ???? i am currently unemployed and don't collect 'benefits'.
So don't tell me you or any other deserves more ... you are full of yourself.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by svpwizard
 


I will take my cold hard cash in small bills. Thanks

www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...

snippet . Illegal immigration statistics also show that as these illegal immigrants grow in number, their needs grow as well. Because illegal immigrants operate under the radar to prevent themselves from being caught, they don’t declare their income. In turn, they receive welfare benefits such as free health care. Public education is given to their children as well, as children born in the country, even when their parents are both illegal immigrants.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93

As for what WOULD be different if 'they' weren't operating a slush fund out of SS ... for one, ALL of our seniors, ALL of our veterans and ALL of our children would have access to resources they, themselves provided.
And yes, i include the children because in my generation, we contributed. Myself running neighborhood carnivals to raise money for MD *muscular dystrophy* ... myself (age 12) operating a local 'library' utilizing my grands funding, books, space, generosity of sharing, ability and willingness to participate and my desire to help others. myself weekly *currently* providing fruit from our trees to feed the hungry ... myself *currently* because i provide food, shelter & medical for 18 homeless felines (TNRd ferals) and you know what ???? i am currently unemployed and don't collect 'benefits'.
So don't tell me you or any other deserves more ... you are full of yourself.


Just to be clear: You think that what you pay on your paycheck to SS is what goes to your own personal SS benefits? Because that is not true. If it were, I can see where you would be right... but it's not.

As to what I quoted from you above: Awesome job, man. You are obviously a good American and I'm proud to have you as a fellow patriot but I just don't think you understand how SS works.

And if it makes you feel better, I don't receive benefits for anything, either. I quite my job as a HELOC sales project manager to go wash dishes because I couldn't sleep at night ruining lives. The only reason I tell you that is because now I work with several immigrants and I get to see many more perspectives now.

Also, like the guy above said, most of this is moot as you cannot get benefits without documentation. Nobody I worked with got any benefits, illegal or not. By the way, undocumented workers do still pay into the system as federal taxes are taken out on a payroll level so it does not matter if the person is illegally working.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by ledzeppelin489

Originally posted by Honor93

your logic even fails you ... if you are an American, you should really take advantage of the educational opportunities before you, everyone else seems to be.



Yeah they're REALLY taking advantage of the education system, seeing as Americans are livid (you're not the only one with fancy diction Mr. "Caveat") that illegal immigrants are taking their jobs...jobs that don't require a college education =\ hmmm, yeah, they're UNQUESTIONABLY using their opportunities.


wow, another ivy league contributor ... i'm impressed. (sarcasm)
so, how many workers with Masters degrees do you suppose work at the local 7-11 or McDs or BK or the local grocery or even your favorite gaming site?

personally, i've never met any illegal immigrant with a college degree in my life (although, i know many legal immigrants with college degrees who are currently unemployed) ... so, if the legal, unemployed, immigrant with a college degree cannot get a job at 7-11 or McDs or any other for that matter (because the economy is what it is) ... why should they go without while an illegal immigrant sucks the system dry and works under the table (more illegal activity) and ships their funds elsewhere? eh, smarty pants?
i really can constrict my vocabulary if its just too much for you ... but, instead of ASSuming like you are, you should try some civil discourse instead and you can start with an apology ... I am woman and proud of it.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 

thanks for you lack of consideration
if i didn't get your point, it's your job to clarify, not mine.
if you cannot respond to the truth, well, that's not surprising.
if you cannot differentiate between your own comments ... find another target.
since you are unwilling to discuss your position in a positive manner, thanks for trying.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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One more link where an illegal recieved help from the government : quispisyummy.newsvine.com... ted-more-than-18000-in-public-assistance-illegally

Not just a myth....



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
reply to post by svpwizard
 


I will take my cold hard cash in small bills. Thanks

www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...

snippet . Illegal immigration statistics also show that as these illegal immigrants grow in number, their needs grow as well. Because illegal immigrants operate under the radar to prevent themselves from being caught, they don’t declare their income. In turn, they receive welfare benefits such as free health care. Public education is given to their children as well, as children born in the country, even when their parents are both illegal immigrants.


This sort of feeds into another point that bugs me. The undocumented workers actually benefit our nation more than anybody else. Hear me out:

1. They can not get welfare without documentation. Healthcare doesn't count; this is America... nobody comes here to take advantage of our "healthcare".
2. They still pay federal taxes as it is taken out by the employer whether or not the worker is documented.
3. Since they are not documented, the can't get tax refunds!

So, really... they pay more in taxes than citizens in their income bracket. Just a thought as to maybe why the politicians are playing cat-and-mouse and only allowing 5,000 to be documented per year (or at least used to).



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by svpwizard
reading all these post and I see 4-6 people all blowing smoke up each others ARS!!!!!

YOU DON"T HAVE A FLIPPEN CLUE, illegals are not getting anything!!! I have put up cold hard cash for anyone who can give me ONE EXAMPLE of a case in which an illegal went to SS office and collected even a dime of welfare or anything for that matter and no one can, why???? BECAUSE ITS ALL BS!!!! nothing more than fear and hate mongering.

IF anyone collects any social services or welfare they are for AMERICAN BORN CHILDREN!!!!! and by the laws in place (as crappy as they are) a child born on American soil is an AMERICAN. they are entitled to those services as any AMERICAN IS who needs and qualifies for those services.

And I know for a fact that you can't get social services or welfare not being a CARD CARING AMERICAN ...... so give it a rest.

stop being that stupid idiot regurgitating non truths like it is true, this whole thread is like a stupid email scam people talk about like its true..... IT AINT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have never seen your 'offer' and i'm not interested in your money but i can introduce you to 4 neighbors (on my street) who fit that description. One of the families is also engaged in accessing/storing/transporting/selling stolen goods (large appliances ... on the side) -- yes, i've seen it, recorded it and reported it.

You are nuts to claim "american born children" as the only way they collect.
Please, step out of your bubble and breathe.

You know for a 'fact' ??? do ya ... i'd challenge that fact alllllllllllllllllllllll day long.
Matter of fact, i could even introduce you to my x-neighbor whose 2 children were not born here but are being naturalized (with my help) ... so once again, tell me what i don't know, please.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by OrionHunterX
And they talk of a minuscule $600 million being paid for the welfare of children of illegal migrants?
Jeeeez!

As much as i agree with the first part of your post, it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

IF you had bothered to read the story ... this $600M is for ONE COUNTY, not the country.
That is the estimated cost for one county, last year alone (2010).
That figure doesn't come close to the war expenditures when you add in all the counties in America who are suffering the pain of immigrant abuse.

Antonovich arrived at the estimate by factoring in the cost of food stamps and welfare-style benefits through a state program known as CalWORKS. Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.

"Not including the hundreds of millions of dollars for education," he said in a statement.


Read more: www.foxnews.com...
comments like these are why the rest of America wants illegal immigrants and their anchors GONE from our soil.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by ledzeppelin489

Originally posted by Honor93

your logic even fails you ... if you are an American, you should really take advantage of the educational opportunities before you, everyone else seems to be.



Yeah they're REALLY taking advantage of the education system, seeing as Americans are livid (you're not the only one with fancy diction Mr. "Caveat") that illegal immigrants are taking their jobs...jobs that don't require a college education =\ hmmm, yeah, they're UNQUESTIONABLY using their opportunities.


wow, another ivy league contributor ... i'm impressed. (sarcasm)
so, how many workers with Masters degrees do you suppose work at the local 7-11 or McDs or BK or the local grocery or even your favorite gaming site?

personally, i've never met any illegal immigrant with a college degree in my life (although, i know many legal immigrants with college degrees who are currently unemployed) ... so, if the legal, unemployed, immigrant with a college degree cannot get a job at 7-11 or McDs or any other for that matter (because the economy is what it is) ... why should they go without while an illegal immigrant sucks the system dry and works under the table (more illegal activity) and ships their funds elsewhere? eh, smarty pants?
i really can constrict my vocabulary if its just too much for you ... but, instead of ASSuming like you are, you should try some civil discourse instead and you can start with an apology ... I am woman and proud of it.


Firstly, I apologize, Ms. Caveat. Secondly, I don't know these legal immigrants you speak of, for all I know they're incredibly indolent and refuse to look for a job, though, that's probably not the case. However, I don't think the solution is to pick on illegal immigrants, who can barely speak english, and use them as scapegoats for problems that they're not at fault at. My parents were illegal immigrants, but they always paid taxes even before they became citizens, because they understood that, in doing so, they helped sustain the economy, and not "leech" off it. What you should really be looking into is job outsourcing, the reason your acquaintances aren't getting jobs is because they're jobs are probably being outsourced. Nothing is made in America anymore I'm afraid, and THAT'S what the American people should be focusing on.

P.S. You think immigrants like fraudulent business or "taking money under the table"? No they don't, but they have no other choice. Without proper documentation they can't receive a salary...I'd try thinking before you type missy



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
Just to be clear: You think that what you pay on your paycheck to SS is what goes to your own personal SS benefits? Because that is not true. If it were, I can see where you would be right... but it's not.
actually, it used to be and a portion of it still is but the majority is absorbed by the 'welfare recipients' of all kinds.
i have paid into SS for over 40yrs and won't be old enough to see a dime of it in my lifetime so yes, i'm well aware that MY benefit has long ago disappeared ... even though i still pay for it, with each payroll. (not presently but recently)

Cool, i'm glad you get multiple 'perspectives' ... just try to remember, they are opinions, not facts.

Congratulations on your move to peace within yourself ... it is the only way to succeed.
Money can't buy peace of mind, happiness or genuine success. I just wish more ppl would learn that lesson early on in life.

Also, like the guy above said, most of this is moot as you cannot get benefits without documentation. Nobody I worked with got any benefits, illegal or not. By the way, undocumented workers do still pay into the system as federal taxes are taken out on a payroll level so it does not matter if the person is illegally working.
OK, from the beginning ... working ILLEGALLY does not constitute contributing to the collective. Taxes may be withdrawn (at a very low rate- provided they work long enough to qualify for payments to be withdrawn, which generally equals several months, yet most IEs move to another position by then) but in the long run, the reality is, those funds get pilfered that much faster. No claim to them, no need to account for them (just ask Congress)

Secondly, IF an IE (illegal employEE) is working, then the documentation (to get the job) is false but can be utilized for a variety of benefits.
Identity theft is rampant ... why do you think that is?

Yes, it certainly matters if an IE is working with false documentation ... how could you claim otherwise?
the employment stats are false, the income unreported, the benefits unclaimed (leaving surplus for Congress), the legal unemployed go without and you and I and every other American foots the bill ... and you find this fair?

thank you for acknowledging my contributions ... while not much, it is what i can do and what i believe everyone should be doing rather raping their neighbors with lies, deceit, manipulation and coercion.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Honor93 because: add thank you




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