Just remember...It wouldn't be just the US fighting on 3-4 fronts, The US's allies would also be fighting on a few of those fronts too...if not all...

A war on this scale would result in a nuclear war I dont know who would launch first someone who started to lose would launch and it would be game over for all of us. And for what a small island off china and two other small countries. Seems like a waste to me

US millitary doctrine dictates that it be able to fight in 2 main theatres of war. more to the point, Asia and the Middle east in this case.

Assuming that Russia gets involved in this is silly. What does Russia have to gain by invading Taiwan with China? All they are going to do is go to war with the US - and for what? Someone elses land? Doubt it - the Russians aren't that stupid.

This leaves the US to fight China, Korea, and in the Middle east.

As the US has shown, it can dominate the Middle east when it wants to (in a strict millitary sense) on airpower alone.

The US would probably give up South Korea for a short time if the North went full on attack (lack of men there), but reclaim it after some time.

China would be stoped by the US navy - it is well known that China could not land on Taiwan if the US navy interviened. No boat would make it to shore.

This all of course assumes no nukes......

Great post Blackout.
I will simply offer My opinion on this outlook.

If US continues its current foreign policy, the scenario you outlined is possible. It will mean the end of current civilization. With the recent disclose on ET, I would think ET will prevent this from happening.

In terms of conflict in East Asia, between China and US+Japan. I believe Russia will try to stay away and benefit from their weapon sales. EU will not enter the fray, at least France and Germany will stay away.

Eventually when everyting settles there will be now more China and US power. EU with France, Germany and Russia will be the King of the world.

As I have always stated, war between US and China means that China will be destroyed, so will be the US. Let China and US be friends, not enemy.

My personal opinion is that China, India, and the US will eventually be the sole remaining allies against the spread of fanatical Islam and the barbarism it will bring to those that will not see it coming.

The world's getting closer, and closer to the brink of war, and since most of the countries you mentioned have nuclear weapons, they might just kill us all.

Following is a good analysis in Arab Theatre in WW3:

the law of unintended consquences
by econ Guest on 10.07.2004 [19:12 ] [Score:0.00]


"The question becomes, how would Iran respond? It might shoot some missiles at Tel Aviv, but absent at least "dirty bomb" or bio-engineered warheads, that is not likely to accomplish much."

The Iraq war has shown how unintended consquences can occur even with all the best US plans that billions of US dollars can buy and 13 years of no-fly-zones bombings. The US is still being defeated in Iraq.

(Everyday the US is looking more like Germany circa 1929. A failed, desperate and de-industrialized nation, deep in massive debt that it cannot repay, facing a massive currency crisis that will lead to default and hyperinflation, embarks on futile oil wars to save its dwindling empire. We even had our own Reichstag fire on September 11, that was blamed on 'terrorists' to artificially boost nationalism to justify the useless wars.) This is the scenario that Lind ought to consider before his "October Surprise."

Iran has already said that any attack on its nuclear plants will be considered a war declaration and this will set the stage for WW3.

The entire region will go up in flames. Israel is counting on the defective US patriot missiles to defend itself from incoming missiles. The US is NOT assured a victory in WW3.

The problem for Israel will be how to wage a war and not allow its tiny country to be destroyed in the process. Remember Israel has already imploded (economically) due to the effective Intifada that has destroyed their tourism industry and their ONLY source of internal income. Israel does not have the means to pay for an extended war, neither does the US.

This leaves Israel totally dependent on American welfare for survival.

Iran's nuclear capability is unknown so a nuclear attack could be a tit-for-tat affair.

You can already see the Syrian, Lebanese and Iranian strategy in a new war and they will go all out this time and destroy Tel-aviv and Haifa, already weakened economically.

Even with US aid, the jews will have nothing left to return to in Israel after the war.


Lind keeps forgetting that Hezzbola (one of Iran's army) is sitting at Israel's borders are just waiting for the signal to begin their bombardment and the new Middle East war.

It will be in the interest of the Arabs to make sure that a new war in Iraq is long lasting as they consider the economic costs and post war scenario that could occur.

America (and Europe) will need oil from the region so it would hardly make sense to use nuclear weapons since the radiation contamination would prevent oil extraction. A nuclear attack to intimidate Arabs like it did Japan will not work this time around.

Iraq has shown how to defeat a superpower as the US is burdened down in Iraq and doesn't have the resources for another extended war anywhere.

The US with its troops stuck in the mud in Iraq will be useless and ample targets. Supply routes will be cut off in Iraq by the Shia and Sunni Resistance. The Iraq war has shown the limitations of American technology and the financial cost of even such a small war. Iraq alone is costing $200 billion a year. A new war will cost at least a $1 trillion a year for the US. MONEY the US doesn't have give its debt-ridden status.

Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and their oil facilities will be immediately destroyed by Iran and sympathetic Islamists inside those countries to teach America a lesson in economics. We can already see the beginning stages in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

American troops will be have to guard Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to prevent these puppets from falling as the Islamists will join in to see the US and Israel (economically) defeated.

Western economies will immediately feel the impact as oil becomes scarce and soars to $150 a barrel.

The US economy will suffer if Chavez in an act of solidarity with Iran cut oil shipments and decide to re-direct output to China.
As oil becomes scarce, the worthless dollar implodes AND The US with its staggering deficits/DEbt implodes.

More US troops will be needed in Venezuela. A draft is now needed but the US has no resources to pay for it.

Then the US will realize, it doesn't manufacture anything anymore. All of the US factories were dismantled and sold to China and so the US can't gear up for a war. Then low and behold all the money for a war MUST be borrowed. From whom? CHINA!

You can't produce tanks using clever derivatives or Greenscam's liquidity or lower interest rates. Nor can you convert a call center to produce RPGs.
So much for what they call the "post industrial services" economy. This is perhaps the reason why other countries like Germany and Japan have maintained their manufacturing base even at expense of economic growth and avoided the US and British myth of a "service" economy where someone is paid to do somebody's else laundry.

So now China will be now have to be a major arms supplier and banker to the war parties, totally immune from the war itself, protected by 2 oceans, boosting its industrial capacity and its capital for AFTER the war.
With the dollar plunging, all of a sudden, the Yuan becomes a safe haven and terrified US citizens move their money to safe haven China.

China might even stage a "Pearl harbor" attack on itself so that it could join the war at the TAILEND and become the major economic player. Dispatching its troops to the Middle East with a "Marshall" plan in hand might also be done.
With the US-Israel axis defeated, the Yuan is now the international reserve currency as a new type of IMF/World Bank is created in the Pacific, headquartered in Beijing and all loans must now be in Yuan and for the sole purpose of making sure that ONLY Chinese products are used in reconstructing the oil fields of the Middle East. Chinese troops will then be in the Middle East for the next 50 years touting their new brand of economics, as the US capitalist model is totally discredited.

Meanwhile, Russia is busy supplying the Arabs with all their weapons and watching as Saudi oil infrastructure is destroyed and with it the US economy and military in general.

With Saudi oil off the market, Russia emerges as the new number oil producer in the world as it will take years to get Saudi oil back on the market.

The world powers suddenly emerge, as France, Russia and Germany form one axis and China and Japan form anthor.

Food for thought.

Article from aug. 04 popular mechanics talks about the shortage of tritium, and that without it the U.S. nuke stockpile will be worthless. I guess we have been using tritium from former soviet nukes, that we "helped" to dismantle, but thats gone too. There is a plant that was set to open in sept.04, but they rain into snags with some technical part of the plant. The article says that this is leading the U.S. to re-open cold fussion research which would give way to more h-bombs, but that if the method for cold fussion is discovered/released, it would allow almost anyone to make an H-bomb in their garage. Good read.

I wouldn't compare the Tiger and the F22. The tiger had thicker armour and a more powerful gun but was slow and not so agile. It was somewhat "taken care of" when the US/Brits fit their tanks with a modification to their main turret giving it a bigger punch.

The F22 is so beyond anything any air force in this world has, and thats just the tid bits that they allowed the public to know/

an interesting thread. some of my thoughts...

china and taiwan.

i really doubt that this conflict would be the seed that spawns into ww3.
russias involvement in this if any would more likely serve to ensure a war does not occur between the us and china. to me, it is completely illogical for the worlds super powers to be in ww3 for this island state.

n korea vs (aggressors)

to me n korea is something of a rabid dog. it will die on its own or it can seek help from those who are willing. war is unlikely as long as it does not act foolishly like invade s korea or the us doesnt attempt a regime change iraq style. if war breaks out for whatever reason i wonder who will be on n koreas side, would it likely be n korea vs all stars?

israel vs palestine

initially, this conflict being the start of ww3 made a lot of sense to me. if israel annihilates palestine (cant think of a reason why) and some arab nations retaliate against israel and the us forces backing it, a multi-nation war could start. just not sure which mid-east nation would be the ones retaliating or have enough fire power for ww3.

anyway, im just ranting...but it was interesting thinking about ww3.

zcheng, I have read many of your posts through out forums, and was curious to what country you live in. I hope its not the United States because you do alot of US bashing, and its oblivious that you would love nothing more then to see the US crumble.
And if the United States were loosing the war and having there homeland invaded they would by no means sit down and turn on CNN they would grab their guns and ammo and shoot the # out of any enemy invading their land.

BTW the US kicked the # out of Sadams military (Twice). And you consider that they lost (WTF). They beat Iraq in 3 weeks. Just because were still there all that means is were commited to help them get back of their feet.

As for North Koreas Nuclear capabilities, In september the US will have a part of their missile shield up.(enough to stop NK Nukes)-(if they have any).

The United States has Oil Reserves in case you forget maybe not enough to fight in several fronts but enough fo its stealth bombers to hit anywhere in the world. Plus within 15 years i believe Hydrogen will be around if not more used then todays gasoline.

I agree that were exporting to many jobs but make no mistake about just because there buildings in china making microsoft's keyboards and mouses that we don't have any facilities here. We still build all of our classified stuff here. Last time I checked its called Area 51, not Ching Chang Chong 51.

Originally posted by Murcielago
zcheng, I have read many of your posts through out forums, and was curious to what country you live in. I hope its not the United States because you do alot of US bashing, and its oblivious that you would love nothing more then to see the US crumble.

Thanks for reading my posts. My sole purpose is to convince US people that there should be no War between China and US. If you think I did some US bashing, that is fine with me, but it is for US people to understand the above point. Years ago, I loved to view CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and can stick to it for hours. Later, I understand the control of US people with the mass media with TV. Although I have standard cable, I only see them rarely. There is almost no valuable information shown. For them, there seems to be no more important thing to report than Laci Petterson case. Remember what was shown almost day and night before 9/11?

I sincerely do not want US crumble, because that It is bad not only for US people, but also for Chinese people, and people around the world. The world economy will collapse, and hurt everyone, including China. But if US continue its current foreign policy around the world, especially when hurting the national interest of China like support Taiwan Indepence. Right now, I see the threat of US to become Germany in 1930. Unless US mend its course, especially in foreign policy, I want to see its downfall.

US should be a humble Superpower. Do not think with No 1 millitary, you can beat and bully everyone. US should show respect to the critical interest of other nations. Otherwise, US will crumble, the only question is when. The more aggressive of US around the world, the faster such downfall will come.

Mend the course, when it is not too late. I think it is almost too late now after invasion of Iraq.

And if the United States were loosing the war and having there homeland invaded they would by no means sit down and turn on CNN they would grab their guns and ammo and shoot the # out of any enemy invading their land.

Glad you recognize the need to defend your country. Do you what Iraqi people will feel when occupied by foreign troops and they are killing their love ones almost everyday. Do you know the effect of 2 ton bomb droped in Falluja? I view Iraqi Resistance as Freedom Fighters to defend their country and scarifice for their country. It is the most heroic act and most noble cause of All that I can think of!

BTW the US kicked the # out of Sadams military (Twice). And you consider that they lost (WTF). They beat Iraq in 3 weeks. Just because were still there all that means is were commited to help them get back of their feet.

That is the sole cause why US will crumble sooner or later. US only knows the use of force. But force can not crumble the people of Iraq, unless you kill them all, as US did to native Indian.

As for North Koreas Nuclear capabilities, In september the US will have a part of their missile shield up.(enough to stop NK Nukes)-(if they have any).

Do you know the parameters of the tests? It was told the trajectory of the incoming missile, wonder like NK will tell you that, and it still fail several times. It is simply impossible for bullet to shoot bullet, unless your bullet is at least 10 times the speed of the other. I think, the only possible shield that might be effective is based on Laser. The missile shield is just another idea to tax more on US people, and offer some comfortability to your mind.

The United States has Oil Reserves in case you forget maybe not enough to fight in several fronts but enough fo its stealth bombers to hit anywhere in the world. Plus within 15 years i believe Hydrogen will be around if not more used then todays gasoline.

Yes. Actally I believe some US black project already know the technology for unlimited energy, learned from ET. How the oil man like Bush or Cheney will feel if that comes out?


[edit on 12-7-2004 by zcheng]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
My personal opinion is that China, India, and the US will eventually be the sole remaining allies against the spread of fanatical Islam and the barbarism it will bring to those that will not see it coming.

what abt russia? they are also fighting in chechenya against islamic terrorists & I guess russia is our allie too.

zcheng you never said what country you live in?

I can't believe you support the Iraqi resistance! If they would stop killing out troops and car bombings then we could leave there sand box country. But the more killing there just means the longer we'll have to stay, if they were smart they would relize that and stop blowing up there country. The US by no means wants to occupy that country. Were still there cause were sticking to our word.
If Saddam would of alloud UN Nuclear inspection and stop trying to be sneaky then we wouldn't of gone over there.

As for the Missile Shield, When you start your car up you don't know it will move until ya push tha gas. Same goes for here this is one thing that is so big that if you ran it through normal testing it would be obsolete by the time it's built. Trust me with as much money that has being poured on this i'm sure that they all did their homework. I believe it will work. But as for lasers, there not yet perfected(yet). What the United States wants would be a solid state laser which would have an amazing range. But our technology isn't there yet, thats why the ABL is a chemical laser because we can't produce the power requirment needed for a solid state laser.

Ok now on to (LOL), you believe the US has learned how to create unlimited energy, learned from ET.
First of all if the light in the sky's are ET. I would say that they move by creating a gravity field around them wich would bassically make them invincible and could move as fast as they want. But I don't know what they would use for power, you would need alot of power to sustain that kinda gravity field.

Originally posted by Murcielago
zcheng you never said what country you live in?

I am from Mainland China. I lived in US for many years.

I can't believe you support the Iraqi resistance! If they would stop killing out troops and car bombings then we could leave there sand box country. But the more killing there just means the longer we'll have to stay, if they were smart they would relize that and stop blowing up there country. The US by no means wants to occupy that country. Were still there cause were sticking to our word.

China was under foreign occupation and humilliation from the West and Japan for decades last century. I feel great sympathy for the Iraqi people. What would you feel and act if US is under foreign occupation?

You answered once, but you seem to forget again.

The US by no means wants to occupy that country.
Do you know there are at least 13 larget permanent base across Iraq is under construction? Do you think US will simply build them and walk away?

If US keep its words, why US still dictate all aspect even after the formal transfer? Just ask Iraqi people whether they think current government is still US puppet.

If Saddam would of alloud UN Nuclear inspection and stop trying to be sneaky then we wouldn't of gone over there.

He said Iraq has No WMD. He said the truth.

I believe it will work. But as for lasers, there not yet perfected(yet). What the United States wants would be a solid state laser which would have an amazing range. But our technology isn't there yet, thats why the ABL is a chemical laser because we can't produce the power requirment needed for a solid state laser.

Even if the Shield works perfectly, is missile the only way to deliver a nuke? what about car, ship, sub, etc?

Ok now on to (LOL), you believe the US has learned how to create unlimited energy, learned from ET.

Do you know the disclose project? Do you know the meeting of National Press Club on May 13, 2001? If you do not , search for it. See and Listen to the video, and tell me what you think?