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India's answer to the F-22

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posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:19 AM
The twin-engined Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) is a stealthy Gen-5 combat aicraft optimised for strike missions. It will complement LCA and Su-30MKI as India's leading combat planes. If given the go-ahead, it should fly before 2010 and be inducted by 2015.

India is currently developing LCA a light multirole attack plane. The only components common between MCA and LCA will be part of the wing, the Kaveri engine, and some systems and subsystems. MCA will be much heavier (12 ton dry weight).

The LCA has started flying in 2001 and should be inducted around 2008. MCA itself should make its first flight before 2010. It will face direct competition from China's J-12 , which should come out before 2015.

Why India needs the MCA ?
MCA is basically envisioned as a replacement for the British Jaguar and Mirage 2000 the IAF flies, which will be phased out by 2015.

The State owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment [GTRE] was to indigenously develop the Kaveri engine to power the LCA and MCA. But there have been major slippages in all the milestones. GE, SNECMA, and Klimov had all offered to provide the engines for this aircraft.

The Kaveri engines in the MCA will have a slightly higher dry thrust than in the LCA engine. These engines will also have thrust-vectoring nozzles. It is unknown which company will be providing this technology, or whether it will be developed in India itself. A supercruise capability is not being sought. The twin engined aircraft is planned to have a thrust ratio of 7:8:1. The MCA will use India's own radar-absorbent material to reduce radar cross-section.

Kaveri :
Air-mass flow 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio 0.16
Overall pressure ratio 21.5
Turbine entry temperature 1487-1700 K
Maximum dry thrust 52 kN (5302 kg)
Maximum dry SFC 0.78 kg/hr/kg
After burner maximum power thrust 81 kN (8260 kg)
After burner maximum power SFC 2.03 kg/hr/kg
Thrust-to-weight ratio 7.8

Kaveri engine is a two-spool bypass turbofan engine having three stages of transonic low pressure compressor driven by a single-stage low pressure turbine. The core engine consists of six-stage transonic compressor driven by single-stage cooled high pressure turbine. The engine is provided with a compact annular combustor with airblast atomisers. The aerothermodynamic and mechanical designs of engine components have been evolved using many in-house and commercially developed software for solid and fluid mechanics.

Kaveri three-stage transonic fan, designed for good stall margin and bird strike capability, handles an air mass flow of 78 kg/s and develops a pressure Combustion Chamber Liner ratio of 3.4. The six-stage variable capacity transonic compressor of Kaveri develops a pressure ratio of 6.4. The variable schedule of inlet guide vanes and two rows of stator is through FADEC control system to open the stator blades in a predetermined manner. High intensity low UD ratio annular combustor of Kaveri engine incorporates air blast injection of fuel for uniform outlet temperature profile and reduced carbon emission.

Kaveri high pressure turbine is provided with an efficient cooling design incorporating augmented convection-cum-film cooling for the vanes and combination cooling for the rotor blade to handle up to 1700 K turbine entry temperature. Kabini engine comprising high pressure compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine has undergone high altitude test at facilities abroad successfully demonstrating the flat rating concept of Kaveri engine assembly and in particular the combustor high altitude ignition and stability performances.

Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for Indian environment. The engine is a variable cycle-flat-rated engine in which the thrust drop due to high ambient, forward speed is well compensated by the increased turbine entry temperature at the spool Kabini altitude test speed. This concept has been already demonstrated with high temperature and pressure condition in DRDO's High Mach Facility. Kaveri engine is controlled by Kaveri full authority digital control unit [KADECU), which has been developed and successfully demonstrated at DRDO's test bed.

Stealthiness will be a priority and hence the MCA will have two small, outward-canted fins and the external fuel tanks will be mounted above the wings. Absence of a vertical fin improves stealth. However, not all weapons will be internal and hence will compromize the stealth.

If all progresses according to plan, MCA will become first military fighter that has no tail - at all. USA is the only country to have seriously pursued such aircraft. It experimented with tail-less design in X-36. F-16X concept is another tail-less concept.

Tail-less design has been seen in Flying Wings, but these represent a separate class of aeroplanes. To realize the MCA, India will have to develop cutting edge technology. US help in this area is obviously expected.

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:20 AM

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:28 AM
Kaveri engine

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:32 AM
What a great plan, answer a competing platfor almost 15 years after its creation.

Absolutely brilliant.

By the time this thing is operational the US will already be working on a new platform.

Sorry but your a day late and a dollar short.

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:37 AM
Not a day late but 10 years late i guess

The MCA may not be able to beat a raptor but it is only a step in that direction

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:51 AM
This thing wont even match up with the raptor and when it comes in service in 2015 well lets just say the US will be in space by then its a good start for the Indians but to call this thread "India's answer to the F-22" is a bit of an overstatement.

[edit on 11-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:53 AM
I kinda agree but i cant change the name of the topic now
Kindly do bear with it

posted on Jul, 30 2004 @ 09:48 PM
Sure it is true that they will be that step bhind in development.

and it is true that the spin off technologies will enable them to understand and develop more complicated systems.

It can even be argued that their intend to develop the concept on their own is a global spin off of the american technology.

Remember too is easier and faster to reverse engineer something than to build the first one!

posted on Jul, 30 2004 @ 11:10 PM
All great beginnings have an end...

I advise all of you to stop your cockiness, because the U.S. will eventually fall behind in technology, nothing lasts forever.

Shattered OUT...

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 01:30 AM
Yeah America will fall blah blah blah. The US is only 230 years old, so its still only the beginning but the US is not ahead on every single aspect. Some things we can improve on and as of right now no one can beat us in military tech.

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 05:38 AM
Surely you people are missing the point. Having followed aviation developments for thirty years and also researched aviation history over that same period things like this are extremely significant and to dismiss it as 'yeah, so what' is incredibly ignorant and arrogant.

In the 1970's credible combat aircraft of any kind came from the USA, USSR, UK, France or an international consortium involving at least one of those countries. the idea that India, Iran, China or even Japan or anyone else would produce competetive combat aircraft domestically was absurd!

Iran is about to become the worlds 11th nuclear power, back then only four countries had the bomb! The world is becoming a scarier place and such 'we are untouchable' arrogance from the old order only fuels the situation and allows it to develop. I really do worry what the next 20 years will bring. A suicide bomber with a nuclear device? It beggars belief that the world could face such a threat before 2020! What price then the F/A-22?

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 06:17 AM

Originally posted by WestPoint23
lets just say the US will be in space by then

- Westy you are funny sometimes.

Don't you know that the airmen of all the big western airforces (so probably the Russians too) were all convinced they'd probably be in space by the late 60's / early 70's?

You just never know how things are going to work out, huh?

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 02:01 PM
Have you read the US air forces space weapons proposal its very interesting.
And now with the advancing technology we could probably go into space with a fighter by 2015 its possible.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 03:17 PM

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Have you read the US air forces space weapons proposal its very interesting.

- Yeah but proposals always are Westy. That's their nature, to be compelling, to be appealing.....and to attract funding and support.

And now with the advancing technology we could probably go into space with a fighter by 2015 it possible.

- which is what they all thought with the proposals and ideas they were talking about in the 50's & 60's.

It remains a possibility but the enormous resources it would demand still make it pretty doubtful.....especially when you and others seem to feel a couple a hundred more F22's and maybe 50 more B2's are needed right now. Hmmm?

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 06:01 PM
No I don't think we need more B-52 we do need more raptors though, also proposals lead to projects you have to start with a plan and that is what the proposals are. If it takes resources and money then the US is the perfect country for the job

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 10:31 PM
I think it's a great plane coming from India and not a superpower. You guys are right n that it has nothing against the Raptor but to come from India it's a pretty decent plane.

posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 11:33 PM

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah America will fall blah blah blah. The US is only 230 years old, so its still only the beginning but the US is not ahead on every single aspect. Some things we can improve on and as of right now no one can beat us in military tech.

Subtract the $7 trillion of debt and've got the right nation for the job.

Asides from that, you've got a good point. India won't be able to compete with the F-22. By the time the plane rolls out, the US will be on 6th gen aircraft. Also, by 2015 India will probably only have 10 of these planes lol.

Most of India's population is living in poverty. If it weren't for tech offshoring we probably wouldn't even think of India when it comes to economy. Anywho, I think India needs to do something about that caste system and helping the millions of people out there in the streets versus trying to beat the US in a race it cannot win.


posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 04:00 AM
Why do so many people criticize other countries for trying to come up with there own aircraft even if it can't beat the "all mighty" Raptor? Should the other countries just sit on there ass and do nothing? No of course not, they won't get anywhere if they do, so they got to try and develop things on there own. It's the only way they can catch up by themselves. It will take time of course, but so what, they will learn new things along the way. I say good for India for trying.

About the poverty in India. Well last I checked, the aircraft manufacturing creates jobs. Obviously it will take some one more skilled than a bum on the street, but it's a start. Besides, name one country that's devoted all it's attention to poverty and gotten rid of it? Creating jobs is the best way to do that. And i'm sure India will be creating more than just an aerospace industry, if it wants to grow.

posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 08:52 AM
jra we are not bashing on India I was just telling the member that posted this thread that it was an overstatement to call this plane India's answer to the F-22.

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