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Excessive-Force Case Filed Over Lab Mix Who Dared Sniff Police Dog's Behind (and was shot & killed)

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posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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This is another one of those cases that will require more details to reach a conclusion, but a couple of things come to mind...

First and foremost, the dog's owner was letting his dog run free, off a leash, which in most public places is a no-no, as far as I know. So he was responsible and at fault in this regard.

But----KILLING a dog, for its actions towards ANOTHER dog, regardless of whether it was sniffing its behind, or having a scuffle with it? That sounds AWEFULLY barbaric and over the top to me. For some reason, even if they WERE fighting, I don't see a trained police dog (which are usually german shepherds) having much trouble with a labrador retriever. lol.

Should an officer have the right to shoot and kill a dog which may or may not be acting aggressively towards his trained canine? Or should there be more humane measures instituted (such as a taser or pepper spray)?

Chime in here folks...Hopefully some of our resident officers such as Xcath will chime in as well...


According to the complaint (see pdf) , Criscuolo was letting his two dogs, including Slyder (pictured above), have a little off-leash fun in a Moses Lake park last January when Grant County Sheriff's deputies proceeded to make a drug bust nearby. One of the deputies was Beau Lamens, who brought his police dog, Maddox, to search a car that contained some suspected meth.

Slyder took off after Maddox, giving rise to the alleged butt-sniffing. The deputy kicked Slyder, according to the complaint, causing the dog to run back toward his owner--"tail between his legs, not charging Lamens or Maddox or any other officer." Nevertheless, the complaint says, Lamens followed Slyder and shot the dog three times, killing him.

A prior investigation conducted by the Chelan County Sheriff's Office, however, offers a different version of events. Ruling the shooting justified, the office concluded that Slyder and Maddox had been fighting, and that it seemed to Lamens as though Criscuolo's dog was returning for another round.


Full Story:

blogs.seattleweekly.com...


edit on 19-1-2011 by DimensionalDetective because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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Butt sniffin can get a dog killed - that is insane! I vote for the taser, I love Labs - the Police dog probably gave the Lab the signal to go ahead - sniff and see what you get. Bully cop and cop dog!



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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maybe americas police can teach the barbaric dogs that are not commissioned by the state to not view other dogs as dogs themselves.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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IF this is what happened:


A prior investigation conducted by the Chelan County Sheriff's Office, however, offers a different version of events. Ruling the shooting justified, the office concluded that Slyder and Maddox had been fighting, and that it seemed to Lamens as though Criscuolo's dog was returning for another round.


and that a big IF because there are two diametrically opposing sides to this, it seems to me that a trained police dog wouldn't be allowed to fight with another dog in the first place. It also seems to me that the handler had some negligence in this situation.

I have been around a couple of K9 dogs while they were working. They are very well trained (both the dog & the handler) and will never disobey a command by their handler. If they do, they're immediately taken off patrol.
edit on 19/1/2011 by Iamonlyhuman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 

.
No wonder so many ppl dislike cops. Starred and flagged again DD



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:29 PM
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I think you are right the policeman that shot the dog and was jealous because now his dog is tainted and felt like it cheated on him right in front of him so like any other jealous lover he lost it so yes i can see this as justified due to jealous rage.
Lovers triangle MDD



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Yes, well I actually DO think the owner was negligent in this case for having his dog off leash in the first place, so in that regard, I don't think he has a whole lot to stand on.

My main question here though is, was the AMOUNT of force, i.e., shooting the dog THREE times, truly justified? I would have to think OTHER options may have been preferable than just unloading a firearm on the dog.

THAT is where my main questioning of this comes into play. It sure seems quite a bit overkill to me.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Hang on a minute?

You guys live in a world where its illegal to take your dog of a leash?

LOL, screw that mad orwellian nightmare world.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Yes, well I actually DO think the owner was negligent in this case for having his dog off leash in the first place, so in that regard, I don't think he has a whole lot to stand on.

My main question here though is, was the AMOUNT of force, i.e., shooting the dog THREE times, truly justified? I would have to think OTHER options may have been preferable than just unloading a firearm on the dog.

THAT is where my main questioning of this comes into play. It sure seems quite a bit overkill to me.



I was talking about the police handler having negligence in this situation. A K9 handler is supposed to be a professional and, in my opinion, has more responsibility in this situation than the owner of Slider.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Ah, I see.

Apologies for misunderstanding you.

Not sure what the standard op procedure is on that one, so I can't really comment, but you raise another point I had not thought of!


edit on 19-1-2011 by DimensionalDetective because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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K9s are EXTREMELY well trained.



I think even if the dogs were fighting it was obviously over because the cop wouldn't have fired 3 times if there was a chance his dog would have been hit. Three shots fired... excessive!



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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This does not surprise me in the least; I have a friend who works for DOJ ironically enough whose dog was shot and killed on his own property by a county deputy in VA for "aggressive actions".

Some LEO's believe their judgment is beyond question - I say in the case listed above let them have their day in court (take him to small claims if nothing else the dog had monetary and sentimental value) and a jury decide if the actions were reasonable not some kangaroo court of inquiry by his peers at the department.

Anyways, back to the friend; he lives in a fairly rural area and the deputy drove his car onto the property at night and the dog did what it is supposed to do and barked him into the car - I guess he claimed the dog was also scratching the car and did not respond to the order to sit or stay (lol imagine that from a stranger at night too - bad dog).

So instead of driving off since he was just "turning around" on the property he shot and killed the dog because it was in his opinion a danger to the public. They even brought out more deputies to look for fighting dogs until they found out the guy worked at the Department of Justice.

The deputy was eventually fired after a big spectacle and the county paid I think about 25k to my friend for that incident.

LoL guess he'd best know in the future if he's shooting the dog of someone on DOJ's staff.

Kind of funny story in a way irony and justice to boot - sad about the dog though.

Here where I live on the farm dogs are everywhere in the feed store; at the gas station etc. I have only seen a dog on a leash once at the vets’ office.

I dare say a deputy would not shoot a dog around here for doing what people have them for to begin with - alert and protection of property and persons against a threat.


edit on 19/1/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Put down the officer, put the K9 on desk duty.


Even if the truth is somewhere in between these two wildly opposing stories it still wouldn't warrant shooting the dog 3 times.
I sort of get where the cop could be coming from, he wants to defend himself, doesn't want to get hurt: but rather than take a short licking and confirm the intentions they all seem to want to shoot first make sh- up later.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by eNumbraI sort of get where the cop could be coming from, he wants to defend himself, doesn't want to get hurt: but rather than take a short licking and confirm the intentions they all seem to want to shoot first make sh- up later.


Dog bites don't hurt all that much ( I have big dogs 100 and 95 lbs respectively) and you can tell the difference between a warning bite and an I want to tear your face off attempt.

He as a handler should know enough about dog body language to tell the difference between an all out brawl and an attempted dominance issue - I can.

I have to actually get between my dogs about two times or so a year they will stop bickering for dominance and get in a serious all out “go for the jugular” fight over something stupid. They will inevitably rip an ear here and there.

Most times they settle it quickly but I have been bitten several times when they lose control and go after each other for real. They have their shots - what’s the big deal.

It can be scary and once I actually got so mad at getting bitten I thought about getting out the gun but I couldn't decide which one to shoot.

I was so mad I walked away and said “kill each other then you idiots…” – they didn’t a trip to the vet latter and several stitches all was well they were asleep on the bed together laying back to back like always 4 hours later. I don’t think they hold a grudge.

Anyway, if my 5’ tall wife can break them up (as she has done while I was away) I'm sure a trained K9 officer can do so with something less than lethal force.

Cop was being a wuss...and wanted to show his stuff.

edit on 19/1/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Sounds like the deputies where doing a bit more with the meth than searching for it to act like that. The first kick to Slyder could be reasonable if the dogs where getting a bit over excited. To then put three rounds into Slyder is excessive, especially against a Labrador. If the dog was some blood crazed pit bull then it may have been appropriate. The impression given is that the dogs were just checking each other out. Was there any other injuries to Maddox or Slyder to indicate they had been fighting?



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Not the first time.


They claimed it was an attack until they told them she had recorded it on tape... then they tried to buy her off.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

This:

media.seattleweekly.com...
Witnesses contend that Slyder presented no threat of any appreciable harm to Lamens’s intact police dog, Maddox, that Maddox showed initial signs of aggression, that Maddox lacked training, that the dogs were not in a “fight,” that Lamens could not control Maddox even by leash, that Lamens completely lost sense of proportion and propriety, that he killed Slyder without justification but with malice while Criscuolo was nearby and actively attempting to reassert control over Slyder, a short distance away. Mr. Criscuolo witnessed Slyder die in his presence. After rising from where Slyder lay, he tried to photograph Lamens, who had retreated to his vehicle and removed his name plate from his uniform to avoid identification. While taking pictures, City Police Cpl. Annalisa Dobson grabbed and threatened to Taser Mr. Criscuolo if he did not discontinue his efforts. Following the incident, Lamens faced no discipline from the County, showing ratification by the County of Lamens’s behavior.

Pretty much tells me who the guilty party in this event was, if true.

The private citizens dog was well known and well loved by the residents of the area who frequented the park according to this:

media.seattleweekly.com...
On Jan. 24, 2010, Grant Cy. Sheriff’s Dep. Beau Lamens shot Nicholas Criscuolo’s much beloved and known (by the citizens of Moses Lake), mixed breed dog Slyder three times.

That hardly sounds like a dog that is prone to fighting with other peoples dogs.

I also find this significant:

www.columbiabasinherald.com...
“There is only one area that is given as a different interpretation by the officers and the civilian witnesses; that is the necessity of shooting the animal,” explained Middleton. “All civilians say it was not necessary and all the officers say it was. There was one person there who fits neither category.”

It sounds like the officer lacked the authority to control his dog, and needs to be removed as a K9 officer. It takes a certain presence to properly control such an animal (being the pack leader as the dog whisperer would call it), and from the accounts I am reading, it appears that officer lacks the ability.

Edit to add:
I just want to further point out that the officer was at fault here for not having control of his dog, which agrees with both the police investigation and the lawsuit:


media.seattleweekly.com...
that Maddox showed initial signs of aggression, that Maddox lacked training, that the dogs were not in a “fight,” that Lamens could not control Maddox even by leash


www.columbiabasinherald.com...
“Lamens said he kicked the dog away twice and it returned,” explained Chelan County Sgt. Jeff Middleton. “His K-9 had slipped his collar."




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 1/20/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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To me this seems real odd that a labrador and a police dog were fighting.
Labrador's are usually placid and are used in the G.B. as guide dogs for the blind.
Police dogs are so well trained that they would not fight another dog unless it was given a signal/command by the handler.
Even though the labrador was unleashed, it would have been easy for the cop to ask the owner to put it on a leash.
Certainly excessive force was used when their were other non leathal options available.
These day's though using a gun is seen as the only option, and that is, i feel because of the training.



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