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is jesus, god?

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posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by seedofchucky
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).

if he is the son of god then it would beg the question why ?

jesus was made from a virgin mother no father , miracle ? i can see why they would call him son of god

adam was made with no mother nor father would he not be considered more the son of god ?

jesus knew he would die on the cross and did it anyway . would this be suicide ?

god knew jesus would die and sent his 'son" anyway ? god sending his son on a suicide mission ?

is this al quieda or divine ?

IF there is a god , i see no reason for him to take a human form nor have a son brother mother sister etc

Not Al Qaeda, his dying on the cross did not cause others to get blown up.




posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by facelift
 


couldn't have said it better myself



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by swordwords
 




In the Gnostic Gospel of Truthit is said that “…the name of the Father is the Son.”


I really think that is supposed to read, "the Sun," instead of the Son. All religions are based on ancient Sun worship, after all, Christianity is no different from the rest.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I don't know what version of the Holy Bible you read but HUMANS DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM. Humans are born in a fallen state of being, corrupt from birth, according to the scriptures. Jesus specifically stated that unless one was 'born anew', that is having the corrput carnal spirit in them replaced with the Holy Spirit, they cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." He then stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3: 3,5, RSV, 1952)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Psuedo-Christian groups and organizations worship the Sun. Thats why they worship on Sunday. This is why churchs that worship on Sunday always face the east where the Sun rises. True Christians know that God does not dwell in houses made with human hands, just as Jesus said!



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Randall07
 


To 'seedofchucky'--- "For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds be exposed."



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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We can all be representatives of God.
If we do godly deeds of good works and are beneficial to another person in need, to that person, we represent God helping them.
Jesus took that concept to the extreme, where he benefited all people through his good works, so is God to every person.
Jesus is the manifestation of the principle of the divine spirit, which we know by practical example by Jesus, is available and that we should take advantage of it and follow his example and be spiritual people ourselves.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by seedofchucky
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).

THE APOSTLES UNDERSTOOD THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH, THE CHRIST, AND THAT HE HAD THE SPIRIT OF THE MOST HIGHT GOD IN HIM. JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WERE NOT TO WORSHIP HIM, BUT RATHER, HIS FATHER WHO WAS IN HEAVEN. THE SONS OF GOD ARE THOSE WHO ACCEPT JESUS TO BE THE CHRIST WHO RECIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

if he is the son of god then it would beg the question why ?

HE WAS SENT INTO THE WORLD OFFERING A WAY FOR HUMANITY TO EXCHANGE THE CARNAL SPIRIT FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT. THOSE WHO TRULY ACCEPT CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD ARE 'BORN ANEW', THAT IS THE CARNAL SPIRIT WITHIN THEM IS REPLACED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. THOSE WHO DID NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS THE CHRIST, MOST OF THE JEWS AND THE ROMANS, KILLED HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE JEALOUS OF HIM. HE WAS RESURRECTED WHICH PROVED TO THEM THAT THEY HAD NO REAL POWER!

jesus was made from a virgin mother no father , miracle ? i can see why they would call him son of god

JESUS WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN. GOD CAUSED THIS TO HAPPEN. WITH GOD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

adam was made with no mother nor father would he not be considered more the son of god ?

ADAM WAS CREATED BY GOD. SO WAS EVE. LUCIFER CORRUPTED THEM WITH HIS SPIRIT, KNOWN AS THE CARNAL SPIRIT. THEY WERE CUT OFF FROM GOD SPIRITUALLY AS PUNISHMENT FOR DISOBEYING GOD. JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO OFFER FALLEN HUMANITY A WAY OUT OF THEIR FALLEN STATE OF MIND, TO BE REBORN, OR 'BORN ANEW'. MOST OF HUMANITY REJECTS THIS WAY!

jesus knew he would die on the cross and did it anyway . would this be suicide ?

JESUS DID KNOW THAT THOSE WHO OPPOSED HIM AND GOD WOULD PUT HIM TO DEATH. HE EVEN ASKED GOD THAT IF IT WERE POSSIBLE HE WOULD RATHER NOT DO THIS. HOWEVER, HE THEN REALIZED THAT IF THIS IS GOD'S WILL THEN HE WOULD TRUST IN GOD TO DELIVER HIM FROM DEATH, WHICH GOD DID WHEN GOD RESURRECTED HIM ON THE THIRD DAY! IT WASN'T SUICIDE!

god knew jesus would die and sent his 'son" anyway ? god sending his son on a suicide mission ?

AS PREVIOUSLY NOTED, IT WASN'T SUICIDE BECAUSE JESUS WAS RESURRECTED. ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND ARE OPPOSED TO CHRIST. SO BE IT.

is this al quieda or divine ? CERTAINLY, IT WAS A DIVINE ACT, AND IT WAS WITNESSED BY MANY PEOPLE IN HIS DAY, AS THE SCRIPTURES SAY. THOSE WHO OPPOSE GOD AND CHRIST TO THIS DAY ARE GOVERNED BY THE CARNAL SPIRIT, THE DEVIL INSIDE! ANY OBJECTIVE LOOK AT WHAT GOES ON IN THIS CORRUPT WORLD PROVES THAT THE CARNAL SPIRIT RULES THIS WORLD. HOWEVER, THIS WILL NOT LAST FOREVER, AS GOD AND CHRIST, THE PROPHETS AND THE APOSTLES, HAVE ALL TESTIFIED. EITHER YOU ACCEPT THIS OR YOU DON'T, AND IT APPEARS THAT YOU DON'T. SO BE IT.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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John Chapter 8:48-59

The Jews answered him, "Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?" 49 Jesus answered, "I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it and he will be the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death." 52 The Jews said to him, "Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, as did the prophets; and you say, 'If any one keeps my word, he will never taste death.' 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?" 54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews then said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 59 So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

These verses sum up the discussion, in a way. I have seen many refutations of these verses by many Scholars of different faiths and backgrounds, but they just don't make any sense. Here the Jews, Pharisees and Sadducees in tow I can assure you, are questioning Jesus about the things He has said and done by accusing Him of being demon possessed. They ask Him if He's greater than Abraham and the prophets. Just as a note for those who might not know the history, Abraham is considered the Patriarch of the Jews. He was specifically chosen by God, called out of Ur into a land God had set aside for Him. God then made a covenant with Abraham, a special convenant that promised a great nation, prosperity, and evetually a Savior for His specific people (and everyone else in the world as well). Jesus then makes it clear that He is claiming to have the authority of the Father behind Him,and that the Father seeks His Glory. Jesus claims to know the Father personally, and to do His will. There was no human in existence before or after that could do both of these things pefectly, so that definitely speaks to Him not being your typlical run of the mill human being. Only God could keep the law. But I digress. The text in John then takes it one step further. Upon the Jews asking incredulously how He could know anything about Abraham specifically (they say He's not even fifty....IE He shouldn't even have all of the life experience He needs to be a wise man, much less know anything of the Patriarch of their race/religion who hasn't lived for thousands of years, was chosen by God, etc), Jesus responds with a very clear and definitive statement: "Before Abraham was, I am." At this point, the Jews are now taking up rocks to stone Him to death. Why, do you ask?
Because Jesus has now committed BLASPHEMY! By using the Name of God ( I am), and claiming to be before Abraham, He has now equated Himself with the Father both in holiness and eternal existence. The Jews knew what He was saying, which is why they stopped their quesioning and took what they saw as the proper action towards a man who would claim to be God. Understand that this was a very, very serious offense at that time. Jesus, being a devout Jew and a Rabbi, would have been exremely well versed in both the old testament laws and scriptures. In other words, this wasn't a clever play on words or a mistake. Jesus knew exactly what He was saying, and what He was claiming to be. He also likely knew what the reaction would be, but He still didn't hold back His words. This leaves us with only three conclusions: Jesus was an idiot, Jesus was insane, or Jesus was truly the Son of God. We can defnitely rule out an idiot based on His wise teaching that even Gandhi saw merit in, and His way of amazing even the most learned of the Rabbi(s?) in the temple with His understanding of God's word. That leaves insane or Son of God. Once again, I think Him being insane can obviously be ruled out. That leaves only one conclusion, that He was the Son of God. Once again, I want to reiterate that I have heard the arguments against the I am verse, but they just don't hold up when you examine the passage considering the context, culture, and history of the Jews.

NOTE: I'm sure some of you would consider a fourth and a fifth option. 4- That Jesus was a clever deceiver, or
5- That Jesus didn't exist. Understand that while I respect your right to your own opinion, and your right to freedom of religion, this is my life. I believe whole-heartedly in the Divinity of Christ, the veracity of the Bible, and I look forward to being in heaven with God one day. These 4th and 5th options were never even a consideration in my mind, not to mention that the clever deceiver just doesn't fit with Jesus' character

Also, sorry for such a short and scatterbrained source. I am at work, and don't have the time to fully devote my brain to this subject. It is a difficult one with much to be discussed, but I think this is a good summary.
edit on 20-1-2011 by one_man24 because: for spelling, grammar, etc. It's still terrible, but this isn't an english paper

edit on 20-1-2011 by one_man24 because: more typos



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You don't understand the scriptures. Jesus said that unless one was 'born anew' that they could not see the kingdom of God. Unless the carnal spirit within you is replaced with the Holy Spirit you cannot see, nor enter, the kingdom of God. Doing 'good works' does not get you into the kingdom of God.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by one_man24
 


YOU DID A GREAT JOB IN YOUR DISSERTATION! I, LIKE YOU, AWAIT!



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by LanMan54
 


Thank you very much! Sometimes I think about being a Pastor, but I have so much to learn. I also don't believe I am worthy. I am very much the Chief of Sinners.... doing the bad that I do not want is my life story!!! God bless!



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I don't know what version of the Holy Bible you read but HUMANS DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM. Humans are born in a fallen state of being, corrupt from birth, according to the scriptures. Jesus specifically stated that unless one was 'born anew', that is having the corrput carnal spirit in them replaced with the Holy Spirit, they cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." He then stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3: 3,5, RSV, 1952)



The way I see it, we have a soul which is equivalent to the spirit of God. I realize we are corrupt, but we still have a soul. It is not our soul that is corrupt, it is our body. When we die, all that is left of us is our spirit which is permitted to enter heaven due to the corrupt nature of our bodies being separated from our true nature of spirit. While we are here, our mission is to bring heaven to earth by attempting to fix the corruption of our bodies. I am a Buddhist. I respect all religions. I believe in Jesus. I believe just about everything the bible says, and I say that a lot of it might have other meanings than which most people are able to understand.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by monkcaw
 
Christ in the Bible says do not worship me, but my father in heaven. I am a Methodist ministers daughter and my father had a Dr. in Theology. He never preached that Christ was God, but the son of God. In the oldest Bible ever discovered which wasn't that long ago in a monistary, It doesn't even state anywhere in there that Christ was the "son of God" I am 64 years old and never even heard of Jesus being God until 1991. When I pray I go directly to God, and not through anyone else. Christ also stated at the very end of the Bible that he would return "as the bright and morning star" not in human form. Ministers are bad a jumping around to different verses and chapters to make their point and not looking at what the entire Bible says.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 
Good point ! The Sun was worshipped for 35,000 years until 2300 BC. The Gosnit works are more accurate that the Bible because they have only been translated by 2 people. Not like the King James over 40 translators that all had an agenda, like King James himself changed the Bible so much and did so to control the people and have one religion in England, "The Church of England". He is the reason the prodestants left England to have freedom of religion, Yet all Christian now believe the King James Version is the only Version, so religion is still controlled by this dead King of England.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by coolottie
 


It's funny that you say that you pray directly to God. Did you know that Jesus is the only reason the Father hears your prayers?
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

He is the new Melchizedek! Jesus is constantly interceding on our behalf.
Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Also Hebrews 7:1-28 (sorry so long but it is all pertinent to Jesus comparison the Melchizidek the High Priest, and also points to Jesus sinlessness and sacrifice for the whole world)
1 For this Melchiz'edek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him; 2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. 3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever. 4 See how great he is! Abraham the patriarch gave him a tithe of the spoils. 5 And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brethren, though these also are descended from Abraham. 6 But this man who has not their genealogy received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior. 8 Here tithes are received by mortal men; there, by one of whom it is testified that he lives. 9 One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, 10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchiz'edek met him. 11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit'ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz'edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchiz'edek, 16 who has become a priest, not according to a legal requirement concerning bodily descent but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him, "Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchiz'edek." 18 On the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. 20 And it was not without an oath. 21 Those who formerly became priests took their office without an oath, but this one was addressed with an oath, "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, 'Thou art a priest for ever.'" 22 This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant. 23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. 25 Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself. 28 Indeed, the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect for ever.



I don't mean any disresepect toward your father, but my father is also a minister. He also has a doctorate in Theology, and He has preached Jesus as the Son of God my entire life! I can assure you that Christ claimed divinity. Just see my earlier post. Btw, if you need more convincing, just look for it in the bible. There are many more passages that point to His divinity, and to His being more than just human. Christ is the Paschal lamb, our Savior. He suffered our punishment so that we could be reclaimed from sin and made Holy before God. I would hope that your Father acknowledges that because it is written all over the New Testament. I guess my quesion to you would be: What would be the significance of Christ's death if He were just a normal human being like you and I? How could the death of one man pay for the transgressions of billions (or trillions?) of people over thousands of years?

Don't forget that God makes it clear than every human is guilty of breaking the law. (God's law)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by one_man24
 
Well , God has been answering my prayers since I was 3. Find an original translantion of the Bible 1300 translantion. They have them in some libraries. You will find that there is a big difference. I have had my funeral arranged when the funeral home came to get my body the nurse noticed I was breathing, believe me God is the most overwhelming LOVE you will ever experience. So I don't think I will go to hell, because I go straight to God with my prayers.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by coolottie
 


Actually, I don't believe in any one "translation". Sometimes words in other languages are context or culture specific, and in order to understand what they are really saying you need more background on the people, place, and time. For example, Jesus states that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. This is certainly scary for those who have a lof of wealth because it is physically impossible for a camel to pass through the eye for the thread on a sewing needle!!! But did you know there are legends/mentionings of a certain passage called the eye of the needle that were notoriously difficult to pass through with lots of possessions because of narrowness, brigands, etc? Now, I have read comments on whether that is true or not, and I'm not arguing one way or the other.... Just trying to show you that things are not always what they seem and it is important not just to study the text but to study the culture and customs of the people involved. Also, take Paul's advice to the Bereans in Acts 17 (it's good stuff, and most ATSer's should dig it):
Acts 17:11
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
edit on 20-1-2011 by one_man24 because: typos



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by coolottie
 


I'm glad to hear that you pray, and I do belive you should address God directy. I just want you to know that you have Christ to thank for that. Unless you don't believe in all that Old Testament Jazz about God not being approachable by man, and the High Priest having to intercede for the people by making sacrifices for their sins and praying. Do you think that God only answers the prayers of the righteous? Where is the justice in that? And did I ever say you were going to hell? Please don't put words in my mouth. I won't claim to be a scholar, because I'm not, but I certainly am no novice. I've read many translations of the canon, and many non canonical books a well. I don't see how you can believe one part of the Bible and not others. Don't misunderstand, I woudl defend your right to believe what you want to the death.... but I don't understand people who nitpick the Bible.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by LanMan54
 
I have two children that died that had not been baptisted, I know they are in heaven. In praying to God I got an answer. God created us to think that we are not all childern of God is a sin, He gives the spirit of life to us not Satan.

the answer I recieved : INUN And I am sure that God knows the English language as he knows all.
NINU
UNIN
NUNI



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