Well, I have been blown away by this thread especially the part about hell. I bought the subject up a while ago about whether there was any escape from hell, and here are all the answers I was looking for. So Jesus was a bit of a Bart in his youth. That’s mad. Mary was not a virgin, that makes much more sense. Cannabis is a spiritual tool, YES. All though im not too comfortable about being hung by my penis. I’ll have to have a good think about that.

With the adding of all this info on the parts of the bible that was left out, about the angels teaching humans of medicine and technology, it really could so easily relate to aliens, with a little stretch of the imagination.

And it really shows up the leaders of the church for bending the truth. How will humans ever achieve peace if our trust is betrayed by those that are in charge?

[edit on 11-7-2004 by kode]

[edit on 14-7-2004 by kode]

I just love how your supposed to be able to voice your views and opinions here, but all I seem to get is put down for supposedly not being as intelligent as others that are here. Nice.

All I am doing is voicing my beliefs and such. Which you have a right to do whatever you want with. But why do you fell the need to belittle me as a person?

God's plan is to make everything, then tell everybody to have a nice day cause he is tired of talking to use, and then just sits back and enjoys the movie? Never bought it never will. Sorry..it's hard to type and look up these word thingys to know what to say....good thing I have a talking monkey to help me with the bigger words
[edit on 7/11/2004 by bobafett1972]

[edit on 7/11/2004 by bobafett1972]

I caught some of this last night. great show
one point i see not mentioned in the thread yet, is the islamic acceptance of Mary as a virgin and the Ethiopian belief in the book of Enoch.

the show proved to me just how wrong this religious difference thing is between christianity and islam. if people reaaly looked they would see and perhaps realized that they are fighting for the same god.

Alright, some say the books are in hebrew versions, but non others. Someone compared Bart to Jesus, which is just wrong for their is proof of Bart. He is based on the creators nephew, which says more for Bart than Jesus.

But yes, I love these books, they answer all the things atheists ask and more! "How could Mary be a virgin?" She isn't! Had other kids before Jesus. "If Adam and Eve were the first humans, who did Cain and Seth and Abel marry?" It tells you in these books, their sisters! "What about all the people who died before Jesus was born?" It explains that hell was a place you went to when you died, and Jesus took the people from their and into heaven to make heaven and hell. Damn, the church would probably have more followers if they left these books in instead of banning them. Also, bet millions of women would flock to christianity for Mary was told by Jesus that when he died she would be in charge! Only the catholic church made her a prostitute instead of the leader. But these books show that women are as holy and equal as men! What the hell were these people thinking? What are they thinking today? Add these books and watch the millions flock to them! They banned all the details meaning they banned all the answers! It would be like making a math book with 2+2=?, 3x?=?, ?-?=?, ?????. It doesn't make sense!

Humanity has been brainwashed for over thousands of years about god, jesus christ and bible and many other stuff. Up until now very few people are starting to think by themselves and not what some church or book tells them to think.

The spiritual depth and complexity of faith and modern organized faith denominations allows such a level of emotional connectivity and community that it can be dangerous if inappropriately dealt with.
Not to slander ANY person's faith but as many times that religion has helped or bettered certain conditions or situations, it had caused war and conflict. Because humana is so arrogant in its apparent continual struggle for the complete destruction of itself, and in this day and age not many still care it would seem, enough to truly pursue faith for a real end to a means access to God in them,
that most either stay away, walk away or remain in their seats and issue continued control of these things that they obviously know affect the deepest emotions and psyche.

J.C. says in the New Testament something to the effect, (I apoogize I haven't a bible handy) that in the end times even officials and authorities in the church will become lazy and oppulent with their positions and power as to encourage us to truly know God and, it would seem, develop our own sense of faith and spiritual connection with God. I said all as such to offer the notiopn that we all believe whatever it is that we do and we live however we choose to live, so does it really matter that some portions may be missing? If you are a religious person then you should not care I would think as to contemplate or argue such thinhs is justification and that means you don't believe in your idea or concept enough to stand by it, yo have to argue to hear yourself. Believing in some mission by the church to remove critical documents is ridiculous! You either believe or do not that which you choose.
I love reading through the Bible and find compassion and deep emotion in many lessons and tales within it. I don't spend time devaluing that which I cannot prove when I see so many great lessons, idealogies, philosophies and credible ways to deal with aspects of the human condition. Peace!

I myself NEVER offer that I am lesser or greater than another and always love being challenged as far as my logic goes. I may come across as arrogant sometimes but often I do manage to nullify many irrational or poorly constructed arguments. That is a statement of fact as far as I must either believe in what I state or not and why would I write on a subject or offer a topic that I had no belief or affinity in to speak of in the first place?

That place you mentioned, as per Heaven's opposite, I won't even speak of as to not agree with or believe the human lies told about it to ensure fears and to give a thing energy even if bad is to keep it within our percieved reality. With the massive volume of aspects, speculations, theories, beliefs, dogmas, histories, theologies ans so on and so on, it is no wonder that most people are so confused as to what they believe that faith itself, the primary tool to knowing God, is ignored in its true nature of meaning and thus eludes human hearts.

It is so easy to ignore our truths and our nature as to buy into the modern pop-culture self realization crap. I say crap because faith is about self-realization but to me anyway that requires merely an honest analysis of one's own strengths and weaknesses, the motivational forces behind their actions as per why they do as they do, and to be honest as absolutley as possible to not just others as few truly are, but to self as even fewer are, sadly. What ifs do not conclude any discussion. Nor do debates that degrade into slander contests as they are pinnacle to our achievement in primitive attacks. I mean really, is swearing or slandering another building one's intellect, happiness, or exemplifying a grasp of vocabulary usage beyond elementary school? It is so simple and not a single person I have met in my travels can seem to rise above not the use or experience of emotion but the rational and professional separation of logic and personal conflicts as to really make discerning assessments as per idealogies or concepts.

You are whom you think you are. You believe what you think you know. You speak what you think you shold offer. Is there an ultimacy to correct or incorrect if despite a disagreement between two people by opinion, that each is in their own mind and thus will never truly know if they are on the level or not? I totally enjoy considerations and philosophizing, but I am ever aware that I am not aiming for right or wrong but peace of mind and the comfort of developing my own views and vision with no real influences or pressures as I do not require approval to know faith as I do. Peace!

What a fantastic program that was...I especially enjoyed the latest info on the childhood life of Jesus said to have thrown his little friend off a roof and killed him, blinded a man because he was ticked off at what he said, among other little diddies...LOL So, there is hope for parents with kids who obsess with religious idealogy, love the gore of the bible stories, think they too may be made into a demi-god when they grow up and ooops all the time I just thought these kids were candidates under the schizophrenic label given to that type of behavior by the shrinks. Hmmm I will definately have to rethink all that I have learned in the last half century.

what a facinating special! I really enjoyed it. I didn't know that some of the Banned Books were found among the "Dead Sea Scrolls". Amazing how they went into the Political aspect of the how & why some books were included, while others were not.

That part about Jesus being a bit of a bratty kid, just knock me down. Especially the part about him resurecting a playmate just to tell that Jesus was not the one to kill him. Wild, huh?

I am tempted to buy the program.

Ladyspiritguide, I would have bought it but no credit card, or money, or bank account....

But yes it was great to see it. And I would have said Jesus hadn't killed me if he brought me back to life. Think about it, he kills you, then brings you back to life. Someone that freaking powerful you don't want to piss off.

But it is amazing, as someone said, what politics will do to something.

I was just reading through that gospel and according to at least this translation Jesus didn't push the boy off of the roof, but was falsely accused of it. (Unless I'm reading this wrong)

One day, when the Lord Jesus was again with the boys playing on the roof of a house, one of the boys fell down from above, and immediately expired. And the rest of the boys fled in all directions, and the Lord Jesus was left alone on the roof. And the relations of the boy came up and said to the Lord Jesus: It was thou who didst throw our son headlong from the roof. And when He denied it, they cried out, saying: Our son is dead, and here is he who has killed him. And the Lord Jesus said to them: Do not bring an evil report against me; but if you do not believe me, come and let us ask the boy himself, that be may bring the truth to light. Then the Lord Jesus went down, and standing over the dead body, said, with a loud voice: Zeno, Zeno, who threw thee down from the roof? Then the dead boy answered and said: My lord, it was not thou who didst throw me down, but such a one cast me down from it. And when the Lord commanded those who were standing by to attend to His words, all who were present praised God for this miracle.

However, this next passage is worse than pushing a boy off of a roof. Jesus killed this boy for destroying some clay birds he had made. Revenge to the extreme

Again, on another day, the Lord Jesus was with the boys at a stream of water, and they had again made little fish-ponds. And the Lord Jesus had made twelve sparrows, and had arranged them round His fish-pond, three on each side. And it was the Sabbath-day. Wherefore a Jew, the son of Hanan, coming up, and seeing them thus engaged, said in anger and great indignation: Do you make figures of clay on the Sabbath-day? And he ran quickly, and destroyed their fish-ponds. But when the Lord Jesus clapped His hands over the sparrows which He had made, they flew away chirping. Then the son of Hanan came up to the fish-pond of Jesus also, and kicked it with his shoes, and the water of it vanished away. And the Lord Jesus said to him: As that water has vanished away, so thy life shall likewise vanish away. And immediately that boy dried up.

And another

At another time, when the Lord Jesus was returning home with Joseph in the evening. He met a boy, who ran up against Him with so much force that He fell. And the Lord Jesus said to him: As thou hast thrown me down, so thou shall fall and not rise again. And the same hour the boy fell down, and expired

Mary and Joseph finally wise up:

Thereafter they took Him to another and a more learned master, who, when be saw Him, said: Say Aleph. And when He had said Aleph, the master ordered him to pronounce Beth. And the Lord Jesus answered him, and said: First tell me the meaning of the letter Aleph, and then I shall pronounce Beth. And when the master hereupon raised his hand and flogged Him, immediately his hand dried up, and he died. Then said Joseph, to the Lady Mary: From this time we shall not let him go out of the house, since every one who opposes him is struck dead.

53. While they were speaking to each other of these and other things, the Lady Mary came, after having gone about seeking Him for three days along with Joseph. She therefore, seeing Him sitting among the teachers asking them questions, and answering in His turn, said to Him: My son, why hast thou treated us thus? Behold, thy father and I have sought thee with great trouble. But He said: Why do you seek me? Do you not know that I ought to occupy myself in my Father's house? But they did not understand the words that He spoke to them. Then those teachers asked Mary whether He were her son; and when she signified that He was, they said: Blessed art thou, O Mary, who hast brought forth such a son. And returning with them to Nazareth, He obeyed them in all things. And His mother kept all these words of His in her heart. And the Lord Jesus advanced in stature, and in wisdom, and in favour with God and man.(3)

54. And from this day He began to hide His miracles and mysteries and secrets, and to give attention to the law, until He completed His thirtieth year, when His Father publicly declared Him at the Jordan by this voice sent down from heaven: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; the Holy Spirit being present in the form of a white dove.(

Very interesting stuff.

Well, looks like Jesus wasn't such a sweetie after all. I can see why the church banned this. Can't let the people know the truth.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
In a 2-hour special, History Channel's show Time Machine scrutinizes ancient writings that didn't "make the cut" in the Christian Bible. Biblical archaeologists and scholars examine why they were left out and if others might yet be found. Beginning with the little-known Life of Adam and Eve, they also peruse the Book of Jubilees, the Book of Enoch, the Gospel of Thomas, the Protevangelium of James, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Nicodemus, and the Apocalypse of Peter.

The Book of Jubilees was written by a Jew.
The Book of Enoch is a hoax.
The Gospel of Thomas was written in the late 2nd century whereas the other four Gospels were all completed within 30 years of the death and Ressurection of Christ. Thomas had no influence on this book at all.
The Protevangliem of James was not written by James, half-brother of Jesus, and was also dated in the late 2nd century.
The Gospel of Mary was not written by mary Magdalene. The paper, style of writing and ink have been dated to the fourth century.
The Gospel of Nicodemus is in fact contradictory to Scriptural theology. In both the Old Testament and New Testament, it is affirmed none shall go to hell until the four judgements. It was not written by Nicodemus, for it too is dated in the late 2nd century whereas the latest part of the Bible is dated from late 1st century.
The Apocalypse of Peter is a heretical document created by a fourth century heretic named "Arius". Arius's views actually inspired the modern-day cult known as the "Jehovah's Witnessess".

Christ did not push a boy off of a roof and kill him.

Eternity is at stake,
- Tass

So you're saying that the church came up with other reasons besides the fact they didn't like the truth.

Tassadar,
Please back-up you assertions. Statements made without sourse reference are just statements.

What religions dont get is God came here as Christ but in true human form, to experience human form for himself, so he could be tempted by sin and understand us. God created us but he never really understood us. In fact we didnt become like god until we ate the fruit. God came down to see why we sin. Why we are so bad and evil. I dont think he really knew what it was to be a human untill he came and lived among us and once he understood us god was then able to forgive us...

Its really simple. Why religion wont tell it all and tell it like it is I'll never understand. I guess they cant deal with the fact that the creator works withen his creation and not from out side of it. Evolution is God.. all 4 billion years of it (not 7 days) not instantaneous creation (maybe to god it is all instant but from a human perspective it took billions of years for dust to become inteligent man.

Its all so simple really, people just need to open there eyes and see. God is all around you in everything.

What science is discovering in the cosmos is God. What science is discovering through stem cell research is the promised eternal life... Christ just told us how to live and if we all believe and do what he told us to do, we would find heaven on earth and spend money discovering eternal life instead of how to better kill each other..

How do you know for instance that one day science will be able to dig up your corpse and bring you back from the DNA into heaven on earth and eternal life?

Eyes wide shut is religion..

The Book of Jubilees was written by a Jew.

as was the entire old testament & Jesus was a Rabbi and a Good Jew. Have you forgotten?

I think someone's button got pushed. They are too quick to dismiss

[edit on 04-08-2004 by ladyspiritguide]

Hey, Written by a jew means it shouldn't be allowed in the bible? As someone said, the whole OLD Testament was written by jews. Jesus was a Jew. Joseph was a jew. Mary was a jew.