Chemtrail believers have no idea!

I noticed that "aircrap" who had been using that 777 photo and labeling it as the interior of an Evergreen 747 quitely removed the photo, and the text, with no correction at all. They could have at least done their part to show the reality of the photo and help stop all the nonsense with that, but they would rather just edit their webpage to remove any mention of it, than admit they were wrong and that a commonly used photo by chemtrailers, is not what they said.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by network dude
And please, if you would like to discuss the missile/plane theory or any other theory, please start a thread, we are here to discuss why the chemtrail theory is confusing because so many people think different things about it.

Hey ND,

My questions are: Why does it have to be simple?! Why would anyone expect the issue to not be complex?!

I guess it doesn't have to be simple. It may be that there are different factions of the government spraying stupid juice on us an another group is spraying smart juice on us. Effectively keeping us at the same intellect level. Just to ensure a larger budget next year. Something that stupid is exactly what I have been expecting to see next.

A. respiratory illnesses HAVE increased in the last decade or so.
B. Commercial air flights HAVE increased traffic over the same period.
C. It IS possible that the government has black-ops project to spray these chemical trails for one, or many purposes.
D. We have no consensus as to if this truly is or is not happening without reasonable doubt within the CT community.

Here is where there are some problems. If A is true, then there should be some sort of proof for that. If the proof exists, then there is a valid argument that something is causing it and it can be discussed as a possible result of increased air traffic at the least, and evil chemtrails at the worst. But I have not seen any evidence that anything is increasing other than the average life span of people.

Anything is possible with the black ops programs that nobody knows about. The alien abductions might be human testing by our government in a way that makes the testee seem like a nut for trying to get help. I don't know. And yes, we have no consensus at all. Which is why I started the thread. I would like for it to be a simple thing. I would like for it to be a situation that could be proven or disproven, but at this point, we have Bigfoot, Nessie and Champ flying around in the sky leaving chemtrails.

I think this whole debate is a bit nonsensical at this point. The information which was once available online which seemed to point towards the authenticity of chemtrails has mostly been removed over the years, and various "personalities" have infiltrated the boards obfuscating the truth, imo.

Whatever may be sprayed high in the sky isn't going to stop because some people are yelling about it. The best we can hope is that this is either not happening, else that the intent is benign in nature. Personally, I think this is occurring, but also am not certain that this has anything more to do than simple geo-engineering and possibly some sort of covert vaccination against various biological warfare germs.

At any rate, I believe that illnesses are increasing within the general public, and there are many different vectors for this perceived threat. It seems best to merely try and keep one's body as healthy as possible, by whatever integrative approach one thinks is best for their self. At the end of the day, all that matters is the survival of our species in the long run, imo. So it seems in these perceived crunch times, we should have the wisdom to worry about what we can actually change instead of what is out of our grasp.

Get healthy, have some kiddos, and teach them well. These chemtrails will either be or not, but I'm no longer concerned about them any more.

I have learned quite a bit about the amazing broad spectrum of this phenomenon with this thread so I feel at least like I learned something.

Peace.

reply to post by stars15k


So now one source sayings its not geoengineering means its not ? How about the article claiming cloud seeding produced 50 rains storms in saudi arabia this summer ? All of a sudden now they say its good and the us has been doing it for years. There are articles on both sides of the discussion, pointing different ways.

And who cares if a picture i grab off of google images is facing the wrong way ? Does that mean there are no pictures out there that are true ? Or how about videos or reports ? This is why i ask what will do it for evidence ? Aluminum in my water test ? Nothing stands on its own, and chemtrails are just a part of a larger picture, whatever it is.

No sense picking them apart when they are not the root of the problem, simply a execution method at best.

I know what i see and thats all i can really say i guess, perhaps when the sky clears and i get a good vid camera up here i will start a thread based on images i take locally and go from there. You can believe or not believe, but if you didnt think they were something negative, you wouldnt waste any time talking about it, correct ?

I think we can all agree (as previously stated by another member) that there is still inconclusive evidence on them, and no definitive "thing" will rule this one way or the other.

You can't definitively say they are harmless, and you can't be sure they are harmful...tough spot for any discussion. I have also learned from this thread, as well as the fact that i will make sure my next posts contain proper images and links to the exact facts i want to portray, versus just portraying an idea as i have done here. I don't really see a point in arguing over which way a sprayer is pointed, it doesnt matter, insignificant in the grand scale.

The point here is that it is completely POSSIBLE that they are negative and harmful, and should not be ruled out. That is all i look to get across.

People should not be content with their lives under current gov't control for a thousand reasons, this is just one of those possible reasons and i hate to see it ruled it. Interesting thread but i believe after 26 pages it can be retired and revisited at a later date when more evidence has come to light for those who are really non believers.

Since no one knows exactly what that evidence is that is needed to truly convince people, there's not much else to say as we don't know what to look for next...

reply to post by Over140


Just to jump in....this is a fine example of MISunderstanding, and it occurs almost constanlty, and is why the HOAX of "chem"-trails is able to persist so strongly:

So now one source sayings its not geoengineering means its not ? How about the article claiming cloud seeding produced 50 rains storms in saudi arabia this summer ?

I think you are talking about an article that described a project in Saudi Arabia (edit --- looked it up, and I got the wrong Middle East country too....it was the United Arab Emirates, and in Abu Dhabi/Dubai (??)....the other rich ME country)... that DID NOT involve "cloud seeding" at all!!!

Found this...is it what you meant?: www.telegraph.co.uk...

Machines, built on the ground, that used some sort of ionization technology.....THEY "seeded" the clouds, to encourage them to grow bigger (by enhancing what Mother Nature does naturally..) by adding condensation nuclei to the air. These machines (and I haven't studied the tech fully, yet) helped to coax out the inherent humidity from the atmosphere, and thus increased the capacity of Nature to make clouds, and rain.

No airplanes involved...at all.

I think it was UAE or Abu Dhabi, and there havent been any official studies or verification of those claims yet, and a lot of scientists are quite skeptical about that.

And i am pretty knowledgable about cloud seeding in Saudi Arabia, and it never made weather, they just tried to work with existing storms. That was a big research project too that went on there

reply to post by network dude


I have to say you are pretty hard core about debunking chemtrail believers, this is like your second or third post this week on how "the chemtrail" theory dosen't exist and those that believe are wrong and many of your replies are copies of your previous post. I guess I don't really get your motive in attacking all chemtrailers.

reply to post by Over140

Since no one knows exactly what that evidence is that is needed to truly convince people, there's not much else to say as we don't know what to look for next...

Not necessarily, understanding, or at least having a grasp on it helps ALOT.

Please do not take this is an attack, or me being condescending, I am honestly trying to make some positive comments here to help you understand.

Here is a post I made to you back on page 22 that you missed. I addressed the areas where your "genius" may have escaped you at the moment.

Originally posted by ZombieJesus
reply to post by Over140

 

They are purported to be aluminum and boron, cloud seeding.

I'm afraid you're terribly mistaken. Your theory appears to be the result of an amalgamation of propaganda promoted by the "chemtrail" websites.

In this one sentence, you have twisted and combined fallacy with reality in a way that most naive laymen would interpret as intelligent sounding fact, thus enticing them into the web of deceit that has become the "chemtrail" camp, encouraging them to spread "the word", (or maybe the more appropriate term would be "misinformation", unless you are knowingly deceiving people, then the correct term would be "disinformation") on internet forums.

Let's start with cloud seeding. Cloud seeding is a very NON secret attempt at weather manipulation. It is done by inserting silver iodide into EXISTING rain bearing clouds. The silver iodide acts as a "seed" for the existing water molecules in an attempt to make them heavy enough to fall to the ground. The two effective methods for delivering the silver iodide are by aircraft or from the ground. Most aircraft equipped for cloud seeding are small (Cessnas, Piper's) and are not even capable of flying at altitudes where contrails can form. From the ground they are usually launched via a flare mortar because of the much lower altitudes rain clouds can occur at.

In conclusion, cloud seeding IS NOT the white lines in the sky purported to be "chemtrails".

Moving on to your next false statement. Aluminum and Boron.

What it looks like happened here, is that you read through several 'chemtrail' sites, and saw the words ALUMINUM and BARIUM, and decided to use that as your next evidence of "proof", but you were unable to even classify the chemicals correctly, and associated them with the false pretense that cloud seeding is in fact proof of "chemtrails".

The aluminum/BARIUM portion of the hoax mainly originates from the fakeumentory "What in the World are They Spraying?" in supposed soil samples. What many believers tend to ignore is that these tests are done with no control, at ground level, and in some cases purposely done in ares that will be known to have higher trace amounts of elements, and are then touted as absolute proof that chemicals are purposely being sprayed from airlines at 30,000+ feet. Aluminum and barium are both very common elements found all over the planet, and are also common byproducts of industrial operations, which also accounts for the the spread of these chemicals in the environment.

edit on 22-1-2011 by ZombieJesus because: (no reason given)

And another piece of misinformation from you.

And who cares if a picture i grab off of google images is facing the wrong way ?

The direction its facing is not the problem here, it is the fact that you are helping spread disinformation. I highly doub't you are doing it on purpose, seeing that with a little more research you could have easily found out that it is an air sampler, not a "sprayer".

When you say who cares, you are also implying that it is no problem that others who are new to the chemtrail conspiracy, such as yourself, and are going to be influenced by your lie (intentional or not) just the way you were recently influenced by the "geniuses" lie before you.

Not a very nice thing to do

reply to post by Over140


Yes, it has been discussed many times before. Cloud-seeding is a known, is a very small event, over a very small area, for a very small amount of time. It is also low-altitiude and is done in the clouds already there deemed to be able to produce rain. What they did in Dubai falls within these same margins. If some want to claim it as being geoengineering, fine. Is it "chemtrails"? No. It's only brought in as a red herring, the "see? they put chemicals in the sky, so it's "chemtrails" type of mentality.
As to the pictures, you really think pictures that are wrongly identified add something to the "chemtrail" debate? Believe me, they don't. I could show you a picture of anything, call it anything I want, and that would be fine?
Okay, my pig avatar really can fly. See? He's got wings, and all 4 feet are off the ground.
Tell me that is right. It's based on a picture. Same difference with yours. And the big shame about your pictures is they are mislabeled all over the web, and people don't think to look at them critically. A critical thinker would know that the amount of anything in all the kegs shown would not be enough to spray any kind of volume needed to produce anything.

As for the conclusion you reach, I feel you are wrong about that. It's an emperical question, there is either "chem-" or there isn't. If there is, a test of the trail will show something besides the expected pollution of jet fuel through a jet engine. The nozzle you show and claimed as being a "sprayer" is part of the plane that carries out these kinds of tests. Nothing on the ground or in the water can possibly be linked to an airplane's plume until something shows up in an in situ test. They have been done, they are being done, there are companies that specialize in outfitting planes to do this sampling and testing all in the air. Government and military do these tests, but so do schools and industry. Surely the big names in conspiracy theory can get a test done. They haven't. Surely if there was something found someone would have come forward. They haven't.

There are too many opportunities available to prove "chemtrails" exist to not do anything about it but whine on the web. And that is all anyone seems to do.

reply to post by mileslong54


We are denying ignorance and trying to advance the study of science. That people do not understand how the atmosphere works, or how planes fly is really beyond sad. That they will believe things that are easily shown to be wrong is beyond stupid. Much "chemtrail theory" is guilty of both.

Originally posted by Over140
How about the article claiming cloud seeding produced 50 rains storms in saudi arabia this summer ?

What Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates did is not considered cloud-seeding.

Cloud-seeding does not create clouds, it only destroys clouds. What the United Arab Emirates did was create clouds.

Cloud-seeding is the process by which you introduce "seeds" into clouds that already exist. The water in the clouds then sticks to the "seeds" and falls to the ground (rain).

The United Arab Emirates created clouds using electricity and large antennae to ionize the air which caused the air to attract dust particles. The warm rising air then pushed the dust upwards which then caused moisture in the air to condense to the dust and create clouds. In non-genius terms, they used static electricity to attract dust which then caused water vapor to condense on the dust particles and create clouds. What the United Arab Emirates did was pretty much invisible, and could not be seen with the naked eye. It also did not use any chemicals, only dust which is already present in nature.

Basically the United Arab Emirates created clouds just like this:



...In the above video, smoke particles were used to help condense the water vapors in to water droplets. The United Arab Emirates used dust particles instead.

Cloud-seeding is completely different than cloud making.

Originally posted by Over140
All of a sudden now they say its good and the us has been doing it for years. There are articles on both sides of the discussion, pointing different ways.

Cloud-seeding has been done for years. It helps extract water from clouds that would otherwise just fly over. It seems to be perfectly safe because there seems to be zero reports of it causing problems, and zero links to it causing problems.

Cloud-making on the other hand is rare, but has been done before.

Originally posted by Over140
And who cares if a picture i grab off of google images is facing the wrong way ?

People who care to deny ignorance.

Originally posted by Over140
Does that mean there are no pictures out there that are true ?

It means people are taking images and objects out of context to support an outlandish theory.

Originally posted by Over140
Or how about videos or reports ? This is why i ask what will do it for evidence ? Aluminum in my water test ?

The video and reports need to be scientifically accurate first. 100% of all videos and reports about chemtrails are riddled with inaccuracies and assumptions that seem to only be noticeable by intelligent people.

Aluminum in your water test doesn't prove where the aluminum came from... so it is useless.

By the way.... are you aware that most body deodorants have aluminum in them? Even aerosol deodorants like Right Guard Aerosol Deoderant has 20% aluminum in it... it is the active ingredient.

Originally posted by Over140
Nothing stands on its own, and chemtrails are just a part of a larger picture, whatever it is.

No sense picking them apart when they are not the root of the problem, simply a execution method at best.

I know what i see and thats all i can really say i guess, perhaps when the sky clears and i get a good vid camera up here i will start a thread based on images i take locally and go from there. You can believe or not believe, but if you didnt think they were something negative, you wouldnt waste any time talking about it, correct ?

No pictures or videos will prove chemtrails are not just contrials. 99.99% of all chemtrail images and video are contrials. The other 0.01% are most likely smoke trails, fuel dumps, and other mundane things that chemmies take out of context.

Originally posted by Over140
I don't really see a point in arguing over which way a sprayer is pointed, it doesnt matter, insignificant in the grand scale.

That is ignorance at its worst. If you ignore the direction a "sprayer" is pointed, you could very well be ignoring the fact that IT IS NOT A SPRAYER, which is a very significant piece of information.

Originally posted by Over140
Since no one knows exactly what that evidence is that is needed to truly convince people, there's not much else to say as we don't know what to look for next...

The evidence I feel that would be needed to prove the chemtrail conspiracy exists is ALL of the following;

1: Video of credible scientists taking an aircraft up, and taking samples of the trails while still in the air. Then showing data that the samples test positive for some type of foreign chemical.

2: Video and images of HUNDREDS of aircraft with sprayers and large tanks which are confirmed to be used to spray chemicals. Not pictures of ice testing aircraft, or pictures of air sampling aircraft, or pictures of refueling aircraft, or pictures of firefighting aircraft, etc., I want to see actual pictures of the HUNDREDS of jets it would take to do wide scale spraying like chemtrail believers insist is happening, and there must be ZERO doubt that they are used for spraying. Also, their tail numbers will be important too. To find out who owns the aircraft.

3: Credible pilots coming forward and proving they spray harmful chemicals over their friends and family.

4: Proof of manufactures that create the millions of gallons of whatever you think they are spraying.

5: Financial data that proves there is millions of dollars spent on this useless endeavor.

I can think of more, but ill just stop there...

Originally posted by mileslong54
reply to post by network dude

 

I have to say you are pretty hard core about debunking chemtrail believers, this is like your second or third post this week on how "the chemtrail" theory dosen't exist and those that believe are wrong and many of your replies are copies of your previous post. I guess I don't really get your motive in attacking all chemtrailers.

Deny Ignorance. My one and only motive.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


I am not big on back slapping, but that was a very well written post. It was well thought out and clear to understand.
thanks.

Well, when all the commercial aircraft were grounded recently due to volcanic ash in the atmosphere it was a blissful clear blue sky that greeted me, and there were no contrails, sorry, chemtrails anywhere.

It was an usual, but welcome sight. Airlines should be surcharged for the visual pollution they cause.

reply to post by chocise


the same was noticed during 9-11. I was searching for the report, but couldn't find it. I can remember how clear the skies were on 9-12. And how eerily quiet it was.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by chocise

 

the same was noticed during 9-11. I was searching for the report, but couldn't find it.

Here it is

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

I don't buy anything you posted. I think you are a tool, or a fool, but I won't call you a liar.
You stated how the UAE created clouds, but you failed to bring any sources. A minor slip, but I will give you time to bring some credibility to your post.
You appear to have the belief that chemtrail spraying is a ludicrous proposition, that the very idea requires proof...on a conspiracy website nonetheless...but to counter, you bring nothing but an "air" of authoritarian knowledge all atmospheric experiments worldwide.
WOW. But, no sources at all...
How about THIS outlandish theory? You don't know sh*t!
Clue for you. There are NO credible scientists that agree with you that aren't bought and paid for. Most truly credible scientists know that there are very powerful people that can do whatever they want which unfortunately includes spraying whatever the hell they want into the atmosphere.
The evidence may just be over your head, in fact, it is.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

I don't buy anything you posted. I think you are a tool, or a fool, but I won't call you a liar.
You stated how the UAE created clouds, but you failed to bring any sources. A minor slip, but I will give you time to bring some credibility to your post.
You appear to have the belief that chemtrail spraying is a ludicrous proposition, that the very idea requires proof...on a conspiracy website nonetheless...but to counter, you bring nothing but an "air" of authoritarian knowledge all atmospheric experiments worldwide.
WOW. But, no sources at all...
How about THIS outlandish theory? You don't know sh*t!
Clue for you. There are NO credible scientists that agree with you that aren't bought and paid for. Most truly credible scientists know that there are very powerful people that can do whatever they want which unfortunately includes spraying whatever the hell they want into the atmosphere.
The evidence may just be over your head, in fact, it is.

WOW all the usual chemtrail cliches there scientist bought and paid for blah blah and indeed blah, I have lived near 3 airports ALL MY LIFE!!!! have watch planes take off, land and fly overhead as a kid from the late 60's whats changed re CONTRAILS only one thing MORE FLIGHTS thats all deall with it!

Also re your comment above suggest you check the t&c's or you may not be on here much longer.

What conspiracy sites are about are to find out the truth even if it pee's on your parade!!!!

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

I don't buy anything you posted. I think you are a tool, or a fool, but I won't call you a liar.
You stated how the UAE created clouds, but you failed to bring any sources. A minor slip, but I will give you time to bring some credibility to your post.
You appear to have the belief that chemtrail spraying is a ludicrous proposition, that the very idea requires proof...on a conspiracy website nonetheless...but to counter, you bring nothing but an "air" of authoritarian knowledge all atmospheric experiments worldwide.
WOW. But, no sources at all...
How about THIS outlandish theory? You don't know sh*t!
Clue for you. There are NO credible scientists that agree with you that aren't bought and paid for. Most truly credible scientists know that there are very powerful people that can do whatever they want which unfortunately includes spraying whatever the hell they want into the atmosphere.
The evidence may just be over your head, in fact, it is.

Stewie,

while the above post is very rude, it's also incredibly ironic. The proof you keep bringing is pictures of clouds you claim to be chemtrails. Don't you see even the slightest bit of irony there? You claim they are spraying you, yet you go outside without any breathing protection. The fact that you go outside at all should be a red flag that you don't believe this stuff as much as you claim to. You and your crowd are doing nothing but fear mongering and nothing you are doing is changing anything except peoples opinions of your sanity. You are scared to death to do any real studies on the matter for fear of finding out that in fact there is nothing to the chemtrials all over the sky theory. But I will continue to be amused when I see the gullible new readers eagerly agreeing with you about how thick they were spraying today. And I look forward to the "grid" pattern pictures with complete disregard to flight paths. Ignorance is bliss. Who am I to deny your blissfulness.

This thread is a prime example of the 'resident nasties' who appear on ATS apparently only to disprove the obvious existence of chemtrails

Originally posted by vermonster
This thread is a prime example of the 'resident nasties' who appear on ATS apparently only to disprove the obvious existence of chemtrails

If it was so obvious, then why is there all the junk science, doctored photos, and the same debunked photos that are not all what chemtrailers have claimed?