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Chemtrail believers have no idea!

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posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Sabier
 


You must have somehow scrolled past my post, page 24?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Explains that the "pseudo"-mentary is bogus, faulty and just plain nonsense......




posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


I agree, there is no consensus, I just wanted to describe what I thought might be the case. So many theories swirling around, just like those darn chemtrails.

I also agree with you that in order for the theory (that I subscribe to) to work, it has to be a world-wide effort and that type of global effort seems unimaginable. Who knows....maybe those unpopulated places aren't being chemtrailed b/c they are unpopulated...but I have to say that I live in a very remote part of northern NM and in the past few years I have seen some strange things in the sky, very unusual cloud formations and such that I have never witnessed before (and I'm not young). I have also noticed increased airline traffic and instances of what I think are chemtrails.

I understand the OP's frustration, I feel it too. I'd love to have a definitive answer or at least some semblance of consensus. Sorry if I stirred the pot a little, just posting my view.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 

One **MAJOR** problem with this topic is that the government was caught lying about and covering up the spraying of toxic agents over heavily populated American cities in the past via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) documents. Having been caught red-handed, they finally admitted to it.

Another **MAJOR** problem with this topic is the the government was caught lying about and covering up the facts concerning DESERT STORM SYNDROME. For years they lied and covered up the facts as veterans died. Only recently have they acknowledged that there was anything to the syndrom.

I can go on and list more examples, but I think you get the idea. The **major** problem is that the government has been proven to be a REPEAT OFFENDER and/or comparible to a PATHOLOGICAL LIER. People have examples of its dishonesty in the past and have essentially stopped believing official stories.

Like the old saying goes: "That's the thing about being a liar. No one believes you even when you're telling the truth."

How can anyone accept what it has to say at face value without skepticism after it's been caught in deception after deception after deception? So, when people start developing strange symptoms, and they see unusual contrails (chemtrails) in the skies... It's natural for them to suspect spraying since it has happened before and the government has been caught in lie after lie after lie.

Is the government spraying? Who knows. But... it is **likely** they are spraying since so many people have reported in. Where there is smoke... there is fire? Maybe where there are unusual contrails there is spraying. Who is to say? It is a very interesting topic for discussion; thanks for starting the thread.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by GhostLancer
How can anyone accept what it has to say at face value without skepticism after it's been caught in deception after deception after deception? So, when people start developing strange symptoms, and they see unusual contrails (chemtrails) in the skies... It's natural for them to suspect spraying since it has happened before and the government has been caught in lie after lie after lie.


but here is the problem, they are blaming chemtrails for ????????? the only thing we can verify is that when there is a lot of air traffic, the sky gets cloudy. It's not making everyone sick, it's not making people die, there doesn't seem to be any symptoms, just a cause. A bit backwards I think.

But I have enjoyed your debate skills. You remind me of my grandfather. He would pick the opposite side of any conversation I had with him in order to provoke a conversation that was sure to make me think.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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If the government is indeed spraying the sky with "chemicals" then I don't think anyone could debunk it.. unless they are privey to classified information. I mean we don't know what technology they possess and what not.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


should be? shouldn't be? supposed to? would be? could it be? These are all questions of no value. It either is or it isn't.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Stars15k

I really do wish i could get on here more because i love hearing all sides of any discussion, better prepares me to convey my points to others in person. Gonna jump in here so sorry if i double up on something, i can only read some many pages back of different peoples opinions and comments. I know there is a lot of bs out there, and people believe what they want. I can;t get in on this site everyday because the sheer amount of madness that is going on is too much to think about everyday.

I look up everything myself, from a basic starting point. I don't visit chemtrail sites and people who claim madness. I have prior military experience, genius iq, and a group of people around me with masters degrees in various specialty fields when i get into farther fetched topics like going faster then the speed of light. Occum's razor basically says the simplest answer is usually true, and thats how i feel.

Based on my experience on many levels in many fields, things are as i say they are and there is no proof otherwise. However, i will not say that i am 100% sure of exactly what they are spraying and am open to ideas, but it is something. I have a good idea about exactly what it is they are spraying, but possibly could be wrong (metal vs biochemical). I could take pictures for days outside and put them up here, but that just doesnt cut it for some people. I can only argue something so much, especially since i dont have an answer to fix it, unfortunately. I do however believe it will fix itself and we will see drastic things go on in the next year, starting with the FEMA traning "exercise" in May that they need 140M meals,blankets, and water for (if disaster were to happen, which it will). Funny how that was the same story with 9/11 and a training exercise that day at that location. Ten bucks says New madrid fault has monster quake in May. Couple great threads on here if you all search.

Anyone who feels like coming up to the hudson valley NY for a day id be happy to take you to all of these locations and make a believer out of you. I am an educated professional in an enlightened state of mind, able to see things more clearly then most since it all clicked a couple months ago.

Oh and the missile off of california was indeed that, show me FAA flight report otherwise. No planes headed towards china, aside from the kremlin report and satelite tracking of missiles, im sure there's a thread on it on this site, check it out with an open mind, not going into depth here.

As far as the sprayers on the sides of planes, do some searching they are everywhere. Aside from the fact of the FBI video about death dumps last week. Look up private contractor "evergreen" they run under the cover of planes to dump crap to put out fires. There's an article out there about it somewhere, too many things.

images.gizmag.com...

Attached a couple pictures of sprayers for those who have not seen them, if anyone has a better reason they would be on a plane please feel free to chime in..




i240.photobucket.com...

And dont bother picking apart the picture choices, you get the idea and theres a kajillion pictures out there. Point is its silly to rule it out when all the evidence says that its going on.

You now have the name of the company doing it (with the means and a cover), a motive (mind manipulation and money/healthcare), and images and videos of it for days in the sky.

If this were a murder case the suspect would already be arrested on that information alone.

www.fourwinds10.com...

Operation Cloverleaf, Operation Raindance
edit on 24-1-2011 by Over140 because: eh



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


It only makes sense if you follow the theory that they want to poison everyone, keep all of society slow and dumb, kind of like sheep...

Otherwise i can see how it would make absolutely no sense.

I however, do believe in the first statement of this reply, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion as well.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Over140
 



Originally posted by Over140
As far as the sprayers on the sides of planes, do some searching they are everywhere. Aside from the fact of the FBI video about death dumps last week. Look up private contractor "evergreen" they run under the cover of planes to dump crap to put out fires. There's an article out there about it somewhere, too many things.


You should really read this:

Are These Chemtrail Planes?


Originally posted by Over140
Oh and the missile off of california was indeed that, show me FAA flight report otherwise. No planes headed towards china, aside from the kremlin report and satelite tracking of missiles, im sure there's a thread on it on this site, check it out with an open mind, not going into depth here.


That was an aircraft flying from Hawaii towards California, not China. It was moving far too slow to be a rocket.




Originally posted by Over140
I have prior military experience, genius iq,


No, you are not a genius.
edit on 24-1-2011 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy
reply to post by Over140
 




Originally posted by Over140
Oh and the missile off of california was indeed that, show me FAA flight report otherwise. No planes headed towards china, aside from the kremlin report and satelite tracking of missiles, im sure there's a thread on it on this site, check it out with an open mind, not going into depth here.


That was an aircraft flying from Hawaii towards California, not China. It was moving far too slow to be a rocket.




Originally posted by Over140
I have prior military experience, genius iq,


No, you are not a genius.
edit on 24-1-2011 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)


So wheres the FAA flight number ? Should be easy to find...except for the fact that there is none. Carnival splendor just happed to have an 'engine fire' the night before this ? come on. I forgot you can tell speeds of objects that have no idea what they are ? If it was a plane it would have landed somewhere.


Who are you to tell me im not a genius ?
Looking past the glaring fact that you don't know me to even attempt to make an opinion on my intelligence,
I am indeed a genius, all grammar aside
edit on 25-1-2011 by Over140 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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And as far as your first link about the evergreen planes. If you notice in my post i said its under the guise of cloud seeding, except they do it with aluminum and boran i believe. Your artice on the site linked is quoted below as saying those planes ARE used to spray chemicals into the air, except that they say the purpose is good and its for CLOUD SEEDING.

This is what i previously stated, and that to which you have just provided more supporting info for the belief you oppose, so maybe my friend you should read the article you quote as it pertains to my direct statements. Thanks for the added info.


""The Reality: Of all the claims of chemtrail aircraft, this is the only one that has even the slightest shred of truth to it. (that is not to say it’s true, just that it has some truth to it.) These devices do indeed release materials into the atmosphere and they are for the purpose of weather modification, they’re just not as sinister as they’re made out to be. They’re cloud-seeders.""



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 

Thanks for the comments...
...In the end, it seems that there will be no resolution until this latest facet of the "chemtrail conspiracy" will be proven one way or the other. If I were to bet $100,000.00 on this, I'd bet that spraying is happening, not necessarily 24/7 365, but adjusted as needed. With that being said, I'd only bet that amount of money if I had 10 times that amount in savings.

Spraying has 100% happened. Is it happening now? It's likely, but that is not proof. Then again, back in 1950-something, people got SICK and some few thought the government was spraying. Those "some few" were ridiculed and told to go wear aluminum hats. Yet... in time, those "some few" were proven correct, probably long after they had perished. Does this mean spraying is going on now? Not necessarily. Yet, "not necessarily" could have been (was) used to explain away what was happening back then.

Just be sure to look into the skies more than you used to. Perhaps look at cloud formations with a new eye. Be aware of unusual symptoms such as are you coughing more than before, or are your eyes redder or your throat scratchier or are you developing fibers from your skin... Or not.

Be watchful, be wary. Our very government has seen to it that people have suffered and/or perished from toxic spraying from aircraft. It has happened before, and it MIGHT be happening NOW....



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by Over140
So wheres the FAA flight number ? Should be easy to find...except for the fact that there is none.


There is a debate between it being US Airways flight 808 (AWE808), or United Parcel Service flight 902 (UPS902). I believe it was UPS902 personally.


Originally posted by Over140
Carnival splendor just happed to have an 'engine fire' the night before this ? come on.


Are you seriously trying to link a cruise ship mishap with some other unrelated event?
Grasping at straws much?


Originally posted by Over140
I forgot you can tell speeds of objects that have no idea what they are ?


I guess you don't know how to calculate speeds of objects using variables and points in space.

I have personally analyzed the videos of the event, and by using a technique I call "object point speed calculation" I was able to estimate the speed of the object using variable size measurements. From my estimations, the object was traveling around 506 MPH.

In the videos of the event you can see a very small object where the contrail is being formed from, and you can see the object moving. If you select a point in space, and then measure the time it takes for the object to pass that point from back to front, you can complete the speed calculation by using variable object sizes (like the average size of a commercial jet, or the average size of a rocket).

For instance, if the object passed a point in space in 270 milliseconds from front to back, you can plug in a variable size parameter to complete the calculation. UPS902 is an MD-11 jet which is 193 feet from front to back. So the object traveled 193 feet in 270 milliseconds which is equal to 506 MPH. Typical cruise speed for an MD-11 is 544 MPH.



Originally posted by Over140
If it was a plane it would have landed somewhere.


It most probably did... when nobody was watching.


Originally posted by Over140
Who are you to tell me im not a genius ?
Looking past the glaring fact that you don't know me to even attempt to make an opinion on my intelligence,
I am indeed a genius, all grammar aside


It's quite simple really... all one has to do is read what you write to see that you are no genius.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Over140
reply to post by network dude
 


It only makes sense if you follow the theory that they want to poison everyone, keep all of society slow and dumb, kind of like sheep...

Otherwise i can see how it would make absolutely no sense.

I however, do believe in the first statement of this reply, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion as well.


do you breath air? Oh, you must wear a mask. Do you see the irony of your post? You claim to be a genius but then claim that chemtrails are sprayed to keep people dumb. And please, if you would like to discuss the missile/plane theory or any other theory, please start a thread, we are here to discuss why the chemtrail theory is confusing because so many people think different things about it.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Over140
reply to post by network dude
 


It only makes sense if you follow the theory that they want to poison everyone, keep all of society slow and dumb, kind of like sheep...

Otherwise i can see how it would make absolutely no sense.

I however, do believe in the first statement of this reply, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion as well.


do you breath air? Oh, you must wear a mask. Do you see the irony of your post? You claim to be a genius but then claim that chemtrails are sprayed to keep people dumb. And please, if you would like to discuss the missile/plane theory or any other theory, please start a thread, we are here to discuss why the chemtrail theory is confusing because so many people think different things about it.


Listen guys, by no means are these blanket statements. And the way i type has no relation to one's intelligence, so you may rethink judging someone, especially on a forum like this where there are some of the most creative minds, for better or worse lol.
I can believe whatever i want, its a belief, you asked what people think is going on and i told you. I am not trying to convince you, merely telling you my opinion, as well as followed by some others, to give you a little more insight to what some people believe. If you cannot prove me wrong then there is no need to tell me im wrong, as you do not know the truth, and i can only make guesses based on evidence that i see. Like i said, what would suffice for you to believe they are there ? I can go tape a plane through the sky today, and a chemtrail next to it, and i dont think you would acknowledge the difference in appearance. If you want me to, let me know and i'll go do it, just for you. Like i said, everyone has their opinion, unfortunately we are all kept in the dark and only by exchanging ideas can one look at all the facts and make up their own mind. #, a year ago i would have logged on this site and clicked right out and called it crazy, but as of a couple months ago, i am now in process of ascending and see things clearer then before, and this site is quite useful for things like this.

And yes, in my beliefs of chemtrails to keep people dumb and cause alzheimers. Alzheimers is aluminum in the brain.This takes 50+ years (if by chemtrails), so no i do not run around with a mask on because i believe massive changes are coming in the next year or so, and thats the least of my problems. No one gets alzheimers until they are 60+ for a reason. Im simply putting a believed reason behind that which you say people have no idea. I think its a general consensus that something is going on, and something is being sprayed.

You may believe its for cloud seeding, and for all we know that could be the intended purpose, but why ? Im looking for more answers just as you are. It seems you just want to point out no one knows anything ? If someone knew it all things would make much more sense, i think we all reach for straws at points, you can't forward your beliefs unless you let your mind lead you, and your brain assess the reality and possibility of it. I don't believe anything i've said is past the realm of possibility, and simply like to add to the source that helps out so many people on here.

I am all for your thread, and more information, but seeing what i saw in the sky 2 days ago as well as most days, has me convinced that the spraying does go on, and no one can sway my beliefs on that which i have witnessed in person. What chemicals they are, maybe. Is spraying going on up in the sky ? Yes.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by flyingviolet
 


You are seeing the difference from advances of in both engines and fuel and increases in the amount of air travel. Unless you have pictures? Or better still tests?
How do you differentiate between what you believe to be a "chemtrail" and what is not? You can't. The only visible thing about one is how long they last, how much they mights spread, and the location they are being made in. All of which are the same as the clouds. Clouds can persist for hours, spread to cover hundreds ( 6 contrails were tracked and persisted for 10 hours and covered thousands of square miles) of miles, and do not show up in every spot in every sky. Clouds debunk everything I have ever seen attributed to a differential of contrail to "chemtrail".
Want to see why people the people keep saying they are not real? Have you ever noticed that we all basically say the same thing? Look for answers to your questions about what you seeing, not just on the internet but in a weather guide. If you don't know how clouds are made, shaped, and work, you can't even begin to come to any kind of understanding about "chemtrails". You have mountains, which are capable of shaping clouds not seen anywhere else. All clouds are full of information about what they hold, why they are shaped as they are, where they came from, where the wind is blowing.......if you don't know how to read a cloud and a sky, you are shorting yourself and living in fear and suspicion for no reason.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
And please, if you would like to discuss the missile/plane theory or any other theory, please start a thread, we are here to discuss why the chemtrail theory is confusing because so many people think different things about it.


Hey ND,

My questions are: Why does it have to be simple?! Why would anyone expect the issue to not be complex?!

There's many unknowns, and that brings about many possibilities. That doesn't mean the issue has to be overly confusing, or entirely false ... it just means exactly what it is: there's simply a lot that we know we just don't know on the issue.

In order to best see what's going on, we need to be okay with the ambiguity of the issue. We need to try and refrain from using absolutes, and simply stick with: we know we know very little.

I admit to being a bit fanatical with my stance at times, but so are a lot of the "debunkers". The great divide is that many of these so called, self-apointed experts think they know enough to reasonably say this isn't even possible. That ticks off a lot of the more open minded people who know certain things, like that the government has experimented on it's population without their consent or knowledge. Or that the military can allocate resources and create projects which currently are thought to be "nonsensical" and "impossible". We KNOW this from history.

What we have is essentially an illogical fallacy of appealing to authority on one end, and amateurs trying to fill in the gaps on the other end.

What we can say is this:

A. respiratory illnesses HAVE increased in the last decade or so.
B. Commercial air flights HAVE increased traffic over the same period.
C. It IS possible that the government has black-ops project to spray these chemical trails for one, or many purposes.
D. We have no consensus as to if this truly is or is not happening without reasonable doubt within the CT community.


I think this whole debate is a bit nonsensical at this point. The information which was once available online which seemed to point towards the authenticity of chemtrails has mostly been removed over the years, and various "personalities" have infiltrated the boards obfuscating the truth, imo.

Whatever may be sprayed high in the sky isn't going to stop because some people are yelling about it. The best we can hope is that this is either not happening, else that the intent is benign in nature. Personally, I think this is occurring, but also am not certain that this has anything more to do than simple geo-engineering and possibly some sort of covert vaccination against various biological warfare germs.

At any rate, I believe that illnesses are increasing within the general public, and there are many different vectors for this perceived threat. It seems best to merely try and keep one's body as healthy as possible, by whatever integrative approach one thinks is best for their self. At the end of the day, all that matters is the survival of our species in the long run, imo. So it seems in these perceived crunch times, we should have the wisdom to worry about what we can actually change instead of what is out of our grasp.

Get healthy, have some kiddos, and teach them well. These chemtrails will either be or not, but I'm no longer concerned about them any more.

Peace.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Over140
 


Really, you say you've researched? And not just at "chemtrail" sites?
Then why is your first picture of an intake pointing to the front of the plane? I'm sure you've heard the saying "don't spit into the wind"? Would you spray something into the wind? Would you?
And the second picture is of a test for weight distribution. It has nothing at all to do with spraying anything. The "kegs" you see? They hold water and pump it around as though people and fuel have moved. It's a closed system. See all the banks of computers in the front of the plane? It's where they are controlling the experiment and collecting the information. See how many kegs there are and how small? Are you even partly aware of how much volume a cloud or contrail has? No, otherwise you wouldn't have fallen for the mislabeled picture of a "megasprayer".

Here's a reply you apparently didn't see, or click through. Really, you should research what you see. Previous unread post



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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yet another facepalm...

A FORWARD facing air sampling tube is now a sprayer?? Thats the thing with chemtrailers, no matter how many times a picture gets explained, they will keep posting it over and over. I am sure it was that Gulfstream II turboprop, that it was taken from.

Anyone want to wager how many days or hours that the 777 interior shot with ballast tanks will come up again?



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Over140
 


Cloud-seeding in NOT considered geoengineering. It's effects are too little, over a small area, for a very short period of time, and are not guaranteed. Don't believe me? Here's a quote from Britain's parliament about just that:



And for the red herring "chemtrailers" who think that "chemtrails" agenda is geoengineering and who keep bringing the act of cloud seeding into the discussion, cloud seeding is acknowledged but is not considered geoengineering. Behold, the experts conclusion:
We conclude that weather techniques such as cloud seeding should not be included within the definition of geoengineering used for the purposes of activities designed to effect a change in the global climate with the aim
of minimising or reversing anthropogenic climate change."

My original post, different thread
Source
The original source is a pdf. The quote above I used above is found on the .pdf page 18.





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