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Chemtrail believers have no idea!

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posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Beavis
 


For anything at the altitude of a contrail to effect anything on the ground direct beneath, it would have to be the size of large hail. The terminal velocity of a particle of a contrail or cloud, which is something tested for many reasons, is between 0.3 to 1.2 cm per second. Given winds, updraft, and possible sublimation/evaporation if it travels through an area of a drier condition. That means anything you see over you will not fall down to a level to make anyone sick for at least 24 hours, if at all. That's if it falls somehow without being blown away by wind, or blown back up by an updraft.
If there is a corelation between a trail and sickness, it's psychosomatic.




posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


NEWS FLASH: learn to read

look a little closer, allot more going on with those patents then just weather modification, do you think they just patent something for the hell of it and never use it? and i never called it a conspiracy, but the evidence supports the high possabiltity that several clandestine operations involving aerial spraying for many different reasons are happening and have been for years, and that the fact that these are kept clandestine, cause people to be suspect of it. being suspicious of something being hidden from you is far from paranoid, and i dont care if you beleive it or not really. im just wondering why your here if your a nonbeliever, whats in it for you, are you trying to convince us we are just a bunch of paranoid chemtrailers? and trying to get us help lol well thanks, i appreciate your concern, but at least give me some evidence that its not going on., unlike you at least i will respect your opinion. so tell me are you just a nonbelieving contrailer, thats trolling or are you a concerned citizen worried about our mental health? which is it? respectfully



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by ADUB77
 


Wrong. The persistence is the problem being studied the most. Here's a report that shows how just six contrails spread to cover several thousands of square miles and lasted for 10 hours.
Spreading of Isolated Contrails...
Pertinent measurements are on page three.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I am just wondering what changed in the weather that the last 20 years or so we have had so MUCH of the weather that creates long-lasting, sometimes yellowish or greenish trails...

Before that... No such weather (that turns water vapor yellowish, greenish, blueish...).



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Ravebaby posted a couple of links earlier in the thread, to a US official website which confirms spraying takes place. There are different kinds of spraying which cause chemtrails - this is about cloud seeding. I've taken the liberty of re-posting the links with a couple of extracts from the site.

The site is the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation:


Currently, cloud-seeding projects designed to increase rainfall from convective cloud towers are conducted in nearly 31 million acres of Texas (or almost one-fifth of the state’s land area). In administering the Texas Weather Modification Act (enacted by the Texas Legislature in 1967), TDLR’s weather modification program issues licenses and permits for these projects, many of which have been in existence since 2000. .



If done in a timely way and properly, cloud seeding can assist the natural process in clouds by giving them enough "seeds" to make a meaningful number of large raindrops. If a lot of the growing convective cloud has pushed upwards above the freeze level, the bulk of the cloud water above that freeze level becomes supercooled (which is to say, the cloud droplets remain in liquid form and do not turn into ice). But those supercooled cloud droplets readily attach to an ice crystal (natural or artificial), converting the ice crystal into a tiny snowflake or graupel, which can quickly grow into a raindrop before the cloud begins to collapse.

Silver iodide is a favored seeding agent because its crystalline structure is nearly identical to the natural ice crystal. When placed in the upper portion of the growing convective cloud rich with supercooled droplets, the silver iodide crystal can grow rapidly by tapping that vast field of available moisture. Indeed, because the vapor pressure gradient over ice is less than that over water, an ice crystal such as silver iodide will more readily attract the tiny cloud droplets than those droplets will collide with each other. In a matter of moments, the ice crystal is transformed into a large raindrop which is heavy enough to fall through the cloud mass as a rain shaft.

The silver iodide particles (nuclei) are sometimes released from below cloud base, using the strong updraft of the cloud to transport the "seeds" high into the core of the cloud where supercooled cloud droplets are plentiful. Pyrotechnics, or flares, consisting of silver iodide burn while mounted on the wings of an aircraft that maneuvers within the updraft field below the bottom of the cloud. At times the seeding material can be dispensed below cloud base from an aircraft that is equipped with wing-tipped generators that contain a solution of acetone mixed with seeding material. The seeding of clouds may also be achieved from above cloud top, using an aircraft equipped with a rack containing ejectable pyrotechnics. These droppable flares are ignited as they fall from the plane's belly into the upper region of seedable convective clouds. Either way, from above cloud top or below cloud base, seeding with silver iodide is designed to give an ample number of "seeds" with which to grow rainwater: one gram of silver iodide can supply as many as ten trillion (10,000,000,000,000) artificial ice crystals!


www.license.state.tx.us...

So now, please tell me how these trails, which contain silver iodide and acetone are the same as normal contrails.






edit on 20-1-2011 by wcitizen because: add link.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 
greetings,and let me first say that I have noticed the spraying in my town of tucson ,az.I have lived here for about 38 yrs,and have been a observer of the skies here due to the amount of air traffic you see,we have a international airport,and a air force base,I have been lucky enough to see the space shuttle piggy backed on a jumbo jet one year the concord stopped here, ect..you get the picture.Well the last few years I started noticing that to the north just on the other side of a mountian range these planes were flying parallel to each other with weird contrails that spreadout and didnt dissipate like other contrails,I do recall one of the local news stations saying that davis monthan airforce base was going to be doing b-52 testing,well time went on and I have seen these chemtrails being sprayed just beyond the mountains, lately they have been spraying right over the city itself,just the other day I was at my fathers house in the back yard and I pointed out this plane spraying right over head,we could make out a large plane with red tipped wings and somthing very strange ,flying right next to the plane it was much smaller cylindrical but we didnt notice any wings on it.I was suprised how close it was flying to the spraying plane,we watched it fly over and passed where we were turn off the sprayer make a turn and when headding 180 in the other direction turn the sprayer back on.So in my opinion they our spraying something,but like you pointed out I dont know what,or why?? But something is going on,NWO,alien agenda,weather modifacation,bio,I WANT TO KNOW!!!!! but all the people who say there are no chemtrails,WAKE UP !



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


*sigh* cloud seeding? Do you know how it works? For someone telling everyone else to do some research, you have done very little. Silver iodide is released into an existing cloud in order to produce rain. It is don't locally, inside the cloud. Spreading silver iodide over a clear blue sky would do nothing but waste a bunch of silver iodide.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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I also wanted to say...

I live between two major airports, Los Angeles International Airport and Ontario Airport, and have been here for 27 years. I also spend a lot of time near Edwards Air force base which is the second largest Air Force base in the United States. I am an aircraft fanatic, and I love everything that flies, and I look up every time I hear an aircraft. I am also a "UFO hunter", so I constantly have my eyes in the skies.

I can say with 100% certainty that I have NEVER seen a chemtrail in this area for 27 years. I can say this because I also pay very close attention to the weather. The only time I ever see any type of trails from aircraft, it just happens to be on days that have high humidity, and or are colder days. I have never seen any trails on days that were not high humidity and or cold. That is how I know they are contrails.

Also, this "mowing the lawn" action that most chemtrail believers talk about... most of the time (not all the time) that is caused by constant high altitude wind... This one time I was sky watching, and it just happened to be on a day with perfect contrail weather. What I saw is one jet flying East to West right along the i10 freeway (a main path to LAX airport), leaving a nice contrail. Once the contrail was created, a constant high altitude wind blowing North would push the entire contrail North. Then, another jet would fly the same exact path above the freeway, and leave another contrail. Now, there is two contrails side by side, and if you haven't been watching like my self, it would have looked like two jets flew side by side in formation to create the contrails. However that didn't happen... both jets flew the same exact path at two different times, and the wind just pushed one contrail over before the other one was made.

Then the wind blew both the contrails over, and another jet flew the same exact path as the first two, and created another contrail. Now the there is three contrails side by side, yet they all originated from the same spot.....

So, there was the first contrail (1):

1: ===================

The wind moved contrail (1) down, and another contrail (2) was made in the same spot that contrail (1) was made:

2: ===================
V wind direction V
1: ===================

Then the wind moved both contrails (1 and 2) over, and a third contrail (3) was made in the same spot as the others:

3: ===================
V wind direction V
2: ===================
V wind direction V
1: ===================

So... if you were not watching, it looked like they were "mowing the lawn", but it was actually just the wind moving the contrails over.

The same thing happens with the rotation of Earth too. When the Earth rotates West to East, the Earth moves under the contrails independently. So if an aircraft made a contrail going the North/South direction above certain locations, the Earth would rotate and the contrail would stay were it is. Then another jet would fly over the same exact path as the first, but the Earth had rotated East, so the old contrail would be several feet West of the new contrail. Rinse and repeat and you have rows of contrails...

That is just how SOME of them are formed. The rest are actually caused by the high amounts of traffic...

Take a look at this video:



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by wcitizen
 


*sigh* cloud seeding? Do you know how it works? For someone telling everyone else to do some research, you have done very little. Silver iodide is released into an existing cloud in order to produce rain. It is don't locally, inside the cloud. Spreading silver iodide over a clear blue sky would do nothing but waste a bunch of silver iodide.


See, now, I try to follow along here, but I get lost when things like this are stated.

This explanation of cloud seeding relies on the traditional methods but does not appear to take into account potentially confidential or classified experiments that could very well be going on that the general public has no knowledge of.

Why do so many people think this is such a stretch? Especially on a conspiracy site?

____________________

To continue, in the past few pages alone here some very simple questions were asked by me and by others that were virtually ignored and clouded (ha) by tons of posts arguing technical details that virtually no one here can proves beyond a doubt.

In my view, the classic debunker arguments seem to be losing steam. Those about timelines and weather in particular.

Our global weather and climate ARE changing, Simple fact. So their arguments might have to be revisited.

The evidence that a few contrails in the past is now also losing steam as we're finding out that spraying may have occurred as far back as early WW2.


edit on 1/20/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Re your post how may flights are cloud seeding ! The problem with chemtrail believers is that every single plane that crosses the sky and leaves a trail is a chemtrail


I have lived near 3 airports since the 60's when only business people and the well off flew, now even I do 6-10 flights a year either business or holiday and in any day worldwide around 50,000+ flights take off.

Experiments may have been carried out in the past and today certain areas may have cloud seeding flights but
100% of trails behind aircraft will be contrails plain and simple.

So anyone who thinks dumping chemicals at 25,000+ feet is any way efficient really needs to get a grip of some common sense!



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


Nice post and nice video but this will just be ignored by the believers, I to have lived close to 3 airports and watched aircraft since the late 60's all thats happened is the number of flights have increased over time.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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Note to Add: I now cannot find this reply to me in the thread. I did a list of all network dude's posts in the thread and it's not there? And yet I replied to it? Maybe he replied to me in error or something and editied it? What's going on here?



Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


here we have a group that believes someone is spraying them with something. If there was a general consensus on where, when and how often, we as a community, could either prove or disprove it. this isn't something that happened 10 years ago, or 40 years ago, people claim it's happening right now! If it's real, then it can be proven.


Oh really? I'm a group because I'm asking some basic questions that are getting lost in your obfuscation? You can tell this because I'm interested and asking questions? Quite interesting....and quite wrong.

My questions were regarding the classic debunking topics. If you can't answer those I understand.

Proving a confidential or classified operations exists can be quite challenging. History as well as this site are chock full of examples.
edit on 1/20/2011 by ~Lucidity because: added note at top



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Uh, your "logic" is so flawed...

If they do CLOUD SEEDING, there has to first be CLOUDS to seed. They would spray particles into CLOUDS that already exist so the tiny microscopic water molecules attach to them and get heavy enough to fall out of the sky... they wouldn't just spray into an open sky.

Most chemtrail believers point to pictures of a clear sky with trails... if there is no clouds, then why would they cloud seed?

Go ahead and move the goal posts again after this....



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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seen five planes today spraying within the space of 5 mins all flying from the same point in the sky then breaking off in different directions, within 40 mins after them going out of sight the hole sky had gone hazy while before the planes went over head the skys where clear blue with no clouds to be seen anywhere

all 5 planes flew from the same point over the the irish sea and broke formation as they hit land. it started off with 3 planes first then 2 more followed 5 mins later and filled in the spaces left from the other 3. around teh same time there where 3 other planes in the sky at roughly the same altitude that left no trails what so ever.

so if they are not spraying something what are they doing and why where all 5 planes flying in the same direction at the start only to break formation the second the where over land?

ive photos here on my phone but will need get a lend of a cable so i can get them off it, so for now ive included a crude image done in paint so you get a rough idea of the flight paths





edit on 20/1/11 by dazirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by markem33
 


I know, go figure. Great point! I gave on these people like 3 pages ago. They don't provide any information, they just try to dis credit any info people provide, it's not a conversation. These people are probably not even looking for proof.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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The reason why people believe in chemtrails is because "chemtrails" have been used in the past. It's been used in the US during the Cold War by the government on people. It was used in WWII in the form of spraying by the Japanese poisoning many Asians.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by network dude
 


I am just wondering what changed in the weather that the last 20 years or so we have had so MUCH of the weather that creates long-lasting, sometimes yellowish or greenish trails...

Before that... No such weather (that turns water vapor yellowish, greenish, blueish...).


I have never seen colored trails. Granted, I am not looking through rose colored glasses.
but they all look grey to me. Where do you see these things?

I can remember lasting trails 20 years ago. I even related a story about that earlier in the thread.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


No, they were producing contrails back then. And farther back than that....the oldest science publication I have found on the web is from the end of World War 1.
What got me started debunking is the way people often mistake clouds as "chemtrails" or even "chemclouds". I have a book from 1905 (not it's first issue, but the pictures remain the same) that shows clouds just like the clouds look on "chemtrail" pages. They were taken before high-altitude plane travel was possible, even before planes flew. How do lines of clouds get made when nobody can be up there to produce them.
I've seen cloudbows, a known phenomena of colors between clouds, called "chemtrails" or "chembows". Yet there is available on the web published science article about how they are produced.....from 1887. No planes were flying then, either.
Yes, there are lots of pictures of contrails from back then. Here's an earlier post. I found both of these pictures labeled by the website they were found on as contrails. The first is from Infowars.com, the second from New Zealand Chemtrail watch (I can't find the previous post for the links, it was yesterday).




The question of "chem-" or con- is not a difficult one. It's emperical, there is either "chem-" or there is not. I say not based on study of the sciences involved. I researched a lot. I made an informed decision based on facts found. I know there is no such thing as a "chemtrail", because there are too many questions that remain unasked and unanswered.
I prefer to know, not just believe.



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by filosophia
 


near the sun? really? OK, 30,000 feet is not very close to the sun. When you see lines that seem to criss cross all over the sky, it's because the upper atmosphere temperatures and pressures are correct for cloud formation. All that is needed is a little moister. The aircraft exhaust provides that. Some days the very same planes flying at the very same altitudes will not leave any trail behind them at all. It'a all about the weather.


Moisture? Are you suggesting that they use fuel, that has water in it, in muti million aircraft?



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Just go outside and look up. You don't need to be in a major city. Chances are you will see chemtrails. I've personally witnessed a chemtrail being laid right beside a con trail. The contrail dissipates in a matter of seconds... Certainly under a minute. The chemtrail which was sprayed under the EXACT SAME WEATHER CONDITIONS of the con trail, remained there for hours. Spreading itself out into a chem cloud.
It's true that not many people can agree on what they are used for. No one really knows for sure. After all, if you were spraying toxins on your people, would you tell them? Or just let the guess at at it, after the mass animal die-offs around the world? Consider that one yet?



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