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Lockheed Gets Big Bucks to Prep Soldiers for Urban War

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posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Lockheed Gets Big Bucks to Prep Soldiers for Urban War


www.wired.com

American soldiers spent seven years patrolling the urban neighborhoods of Iraq; its troops battled insurgents there block-by-block and house-by-house. Now that the Army is getting out of Iraq, it wants to make sure its urban combat skills don’t wither away. So it today it gave Lockheed Martin a contract worth up to $287 million to build Urban Operations Training Systems — essentially, giant simulation facilities and modules to help soldiers get ready for life in the big, bad city.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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This is quite an operation. So we are going to have our Army ready for fighting in OTHER "big, bad cities"?

In the military you don't spend money on something you won't use, most of the time, and a funding that is almost 300 million U.S. dollars you can be certain there is an anticipation that our soldiers will use such skills once more.

The question is "which big, bad city" will our Armed Forces use this urban training against?

www.wired.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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Perpetual War for Perpetual Employment?
Published on 01-15-2011

By Anthony Wile - Daily Bell

Here at the Daily Bell, we remain convinced that America's serial wars have continually deepened that great country's economic crisis. And this gives rise to a peculiar dilemma that we don't usually point out, but which will be the purpose of this article. It may even explain the reluctance of the US to leave Afghanistan and to generally disengage from overseas violence.

This is the issue: "How can the US cease its warring when so many people in that beleaguered country depend on conflict for their employment?"

The US unemployment or under-employment rate (the real one) is somewhere between 25 and 30 percent. To reduce or eliminate garrisons in both Iraq and Afghanistan would inject hundreds of thousands of additional individuals into an economy that is struggling to provide employment to available workers. (Not to mention the private-sector "defense" jobs that would be made redundant.) And assuming that the additional workers find jobs; wouldn't they be at substantially lower salaries than their existing military compensations?


 

Mod Edit: External Source Tags Instructions – Please Review This Link.





edit on 19-1-2011 by GAOTU789 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


This is quite an operation. So we are going to have our Army ready for fighting in OTHER "big, bad cities"?

In the military you don't spend money on something you won't use, most of the time, and a funding that is almost 300 million U.S. dollars you can be certain there is an anticipation that our soldiers will use such skills once more.

The question is "which big, bad city" will our Armed Forces use this urban training against?

www.wired.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


New York? Chicago? Los Anegeles? Las Vegas? Is this what you are considering? an american city?



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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[...]The question is "which big, bad city" will our Armed Forces use this urban training against?[...]


Ask,and you´ll be heard Very Obvovious

edit on 19-1-2011 by Shenon because: spelling


Edit to add: As you can see in the Link,the next "War" is already well on its way...
edit on 19-1-2011 by Shenon because: Added something



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 
$287 Million, that's not much..

Guess it's gonna be a "quick" training session then....



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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This kind of news tends to disturb me a little. I'll share that this is not the first time I have heard of such news. Before it was news, I had a friend tell me about her father - a National Guardsman - who had recently returned from serving overseas and was informed of new training about to commence upon the new year of 2011.

This training, she explained, consisted of crowd control drills speficially in a "marshall law" situation. My friend reported this to me at around the end of November, and she also mentioned how her father was so disturbed by the new drills about to take place that he decided he would not report to duty if such drills became reality. Some soldiers at least know better than to fight their own people.

If such chaos does ensue within major cities, I fervantly hope those of you in those places will stay safe or find safe places to be.

Namaste.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Before I joined the Navy in '06 I thought that the drawn out conflict in Iraq was more of a training mission than anything else. After knowing what kind of training my Marine friends went through and some of the things they did over there I still feel the same say.Guys from E-1 to 0-9 are being misled and most believe the lie. I have to believe those who wear 4 stars have to know the real intent of these conflicts.

I call what we are doing in Afghan and Iraq conflicts, if it was a war we would have an Army of enemy soldiers, a Fleet of enemy sailors, and countless squadrons of enemy Airman to battle. We are involved in expensive conflicts with suspicious intentions and very few can saw past the "We're at War!" facade.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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I think this is more along the lines of the Mountain Warfare Schools designed in the 1950s, whereas troops needed development of both individual and unit mountain skills with emphasis on enhancing overall combat capability. The schools are for testing cold-weather clothing, equipment, human performance, rough terrain vehicles, and they helped develop doctrine and concepts to enhance US troops ability to fight in mountain and cold weather environments.

By simply changing the terms to Urban Warfare provides the same current necessity as the MWS.

I've trained at an Urban Warfare battle ground in Camp Geiger in the 90s (these training environments already exist).

As to your question what city are we preparing to battle with; none in the US. This facility will likely mirror where we see conflict arising in the next several decades. Parts of it may look like North Korea, others possible look like Iran... follow the money to where destabilization is occurring, that area is sure bet to have mock urban training ground.

And in all honesty, if we were training to attack a US city, why not just occupy Detroit? No one else is there (sadly).

Edit to add: As per lunarcrystal's remark about crowd control and marshal law training - again, we were doing that in the 90s, I had friends on their days off who acted as the aggressors while my unit "controlled" them. It's just training. And these new facilities are needed so we don't lose the knowledge we've learned from the recent wars.
edit on 19-1-2011 by Jason88 because: more thought



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I got caught up in a similar scam in foreign country in the 70s. This urban training will also be convenient for insurgencies in the USA.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Good. Any trained and professional army need to have the ability to train in all forms of combat operations. Urban operations are a major part of the face of modern warfare, whether it's in the Middle-East or Africa. If they don't have ability to train that part of combat, they will be flawed as soldiers, they will be ill-trained and ill-prepared, and as such, their casualties will be higher the next time they are in need of such skills. The Gods of War smile on the ones who are prepared.

And, yes, it can also be used as a sign they are to be trained to fight in the US. But, the US have deserts too. Does that mean whenever US soldiers at home train in desert warfare, they are preparing to fight their own citizens? The US have forests too. Does that mean whenever US soldiers at home train in woodland warfare, they are preparing to fight their own citizens? American citizens aren't different from any other humans. The US military - or any other military - don't need any "special training" to fight them.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Seriously?

There is a whole series of FM's on the subject...imagine that training to fight an urban war in todays climate?

FM 3-06 10/26/2006 URBAN OPERATIONS

FM 3-06.1 7/9/2005 AVIATION URBAN OPERATIONS MULTI-SERVICE TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES FOR AVIATION URBAN OPERATIONS

FM 3-06.11 2/28/2002 COMBINED ARMS OPERATIONS IN URBAN TERRAIN PDF

FM 3-06.20 4/25/2006 MULTI-SERVICE TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES FOR CORDON AND SEARCH OPERATIONS

If you have an Army Knowledge Online account you can even download them.....at: Doctrine and Training Publications



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Jason88
Edit to add: As per lunarcrystal's remark about crowd control and marshal law training - again, we were doing that in the 90s, I had friends on their days off who acted as the aggressors while my unit "controlled" them. It's just training. And these new facilities are needed so we don't lose the knowledge we've learned from the recent wars.


Of course I understand that any "Urban Warfare on US Citizens" training thing is pure speculation and conjecture. I honestly don't know what to expect, but my imagination is vivid enough that I believe literally anything can happen. At this point, I'm happy living in a small remote little hippie town and just waiting to see what happens.

However, I just wanted to repeat what I heard directly from a friend because I thought sharing it might be of interest to some. The words "marshal law" were stressed when I was told this information, as in that was literally what they were associating with the drills. Is this true? I have no idea.

Does anyone on here know how realistic (and I mean seriously) marshal law taking place could be? What circumstances would be required for such a move?

I'm just curious. Be gentle. ^.^



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by lunarcrystal

Originally posted by Jason88
Edit to add: As per lunarcrystal's remark about crowd control and marshal law training - again, we were doing that in the 90s, I had friends on their days off who acted as the aggressors while my unit "controlled" them. It's just training. And these new facilities are needed so we don't lose the knowledge we've learned from the recent wars.


Of course I understand that any "Urban Warfare on US Citizens" training thing is pure speculation and conjecture. I honestly don't know what to expect, but my imagination is vivid enough that I believe literally anything can happen. At this point, I'm happy living in a small remote little hippie town and just waiting to see what happens.

However, I just wanted to repeat what I heard directly from a friend because I thought sharing it might be of interest to some. The words "marshal law" were stressed when I was told this information, as in that was literally what they were associating with the drills. Is this true? I have no idea.

Does anyone on here know how realistic (and I mean seriously) marshal law taking place could be? What circumstances would be required for such a move?

I'm just curious. Be gentle. ^.^


Im siting on the New Madrid in the 618... a very high crime city that makes detroit look like disney land is the city to my side. I will be praising martial law if the big quake comes... they can urban warfare the looting murdering thugs all they want.
That darned city limits line is just too invisible to keep the criminals out when they think they have an opportunity to exploit in a disaster. If we get a significant quake here.. in reality Marital Law will be the most sensible thing to do to control the situation. At the moment we have 202 citizens per every ONE cop.. and they just laid off 13 sheriffs deputies. Yeah, we will require assistance.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by lunarcrystal
 


No worries, I'm an easy going person.


As to marshal law being emphasized to your friend during training, I really don't know. All I can think of is that some platoon leaders are more harsh than others and tend overemphasize simple drills because they think their troops don't listen.

Also, I tend to agree with you, anything is possible in this current US climate, but I would temper that by adding next to Sweden on scale the US has the most heavily armed populace on the planet. The US military would be really stupid to take on the population, not to mention the amount of deserters that would leave to fight for mom and dad rather the military machine.

Instances where marshal law has been enacted included Hawaii after the Pearl Harbor bombings and the War of 1812 in New Orleans (I believe that's all). In both instances enemy troops had attacked the US and amongst the confusion the military took over to sort out the good guys from the bad.

What I worry about when I let myself go down this path is the National Guard since state governors can mobilize them to do their deeds (no federal declaration needed, hence less checks and balances).

But, I really wouldn't worry. As a US Marine (not active) my mind says this is all just run of the mill training.
edit on 19-1-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by lunarcrystalI'm just curious. Be gentle. ^.^



I know this may seem suspect but having contractors conduct training for the military is nothing new; especially training that requires a lot of coordination, equipment, or personnel to plan, coordinate and conduct.

There are a couple reasons for this:

1) Is simply money; paying company a flat fee to complete a task on a continuing basis is better than having to assign Soldiers to a unit (or creating one) to accomplish the same purpose.

2) Is continuity and experience; these companies hire retired senior officers and NCO's to conduct the training capitalizing on their combat experiences and they don't have careers to advance any longer so they don’t have to rotate out to other positions to get their tickets punched so to speak.

There are battle simulation centers all around the military that are staffed by these contractors run by Lockheed, SAIC and DynCorp, Northrup G., MPRI and other organizations and have been for quite some time. As long as I can remember anyway and that goes back to the mid-eighties.

In reference to the possibility of marital law Google Northcom and CON-PLANs or O-PLANS to find your answers.

Likely they have contingencies for all sorts of scenarios from natural disaster to civil unrest. The existence of such plans is UNCLASS while the contents of such plans may be SECRET or higher. No real conspiracy there just a contingency plan.

We have some for almost everything plausible and seemingly implausible from the invasion of Mexico to probably the arrival of Aliens (well, likely that one is Classified
and denied) to nuclear exchanges followed by invasions of Russians and Chinese.

Whole staffs of officers do nothing but make these plans and war-game the possible outcomes to have a "shell" for things in case they happen. They seal them up after and review them periodically for updates of technology changes in active units and such.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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I wouldn't be too worried.

These are just soldiers, the same ones I've seen 'missing the mark' and blowing away THEIR OWN COMRADES in failed mortar attacks on national television.

When people see news stories like this, I believe they imagine armed-to-the-teeth supersoldiers kicking down doors and shooting everybody inside. This is far from reality.

While I think most US army personnel would happily open fire on the American public, I think they have more to worry about than we do.
edit on 1/19/11 by Tharsis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Which big bad city ?

Well ... here's a thought ...

imageevent.com...;jsessionid=tmwlu5g631.zebra_s?p=114&n=1&m=-1&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2

Note the Twin Towers behind the dragon ...

Edit : Okay , the enlarged image is not loading , so you will need to scroll down until you find the patch depicting the green dragon superimposed on New York City . This a just a little past half-way down the page .The Twin Towers are directly behind the dragon .

"Warfighting Lab" is on the top of the patch , while "Urban Warrior" is on the bottom of the patch
edit on 19-1-2011 by okbmd because: eta



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by TharsisWhile I think most US army personnel would happily open fire on the American public, I think they have more to worry about than we do.
edit on 1/19/11 by Tharsis because: (no reason given)


I bet more than less than you think:

Hate to quote one's self but I dont want to type it again; check out this site. Many officers and LEOs belong to it and will not do what you are suggesting.


Originally posted by Golf66
Don't worry Lemon - we are here to help and we won't allow it to happen.

March 3rd, 2009; Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey


OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.


In 3rd SFG most of the Officers and NCO's were commited to these principles at least in spirit if not actual members of the organization.

I say sleep comfortable in your beds at night - at least for now.




posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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I would like to say thank you to Jason88 and Golf66 and the others who have all helped allay my feelings and fears regarding this.

For now, I will remain unworried about marshal law.



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