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Michael Moore - People own guns because they're fearful racists.

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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by lewman
isnt he canadian, not sure if he definatly is but cant you buy a gun in canada as soon as you turn 18 and without the need for a licence etc...., why is canada not such a violent place then. maybe its all down to the media and how celebrities are portrayed as perfect people with perfect lives who all have great teeth and most are incredibly good looking. maybe the not so perfect people get pissed with their crappy existence and cause some crimes jesse james style.
also guns are often seen as cool in american films(this is true in other nations films and tv aswell, just not to such an extent.) and killing is often glamourised.


An ex-KGB agent was asked about Michael Moore and ''Bowling for Columbine'' and why Moore did not mention the much more stringent immigration laws and the difference in Racial make up of Canada compared to the US .When told it had to do with Political correctness he laughed and said ''you mean lying''-this I understand well''-
I am a chronic pain patient: a ''girlfriend '' living a block away called the police and said I was choking her. I did NOT leave my home. Still, I was arrested and while held on $200,000 ransom(bail) the ''girlfriend'' had her son break in and steal ALL my pain medications .She did NOT appear in court and my case was tossed out-but since I was charged with Domestic Violence I am unsure of whether I can purchase a firearm . This incident cost me $2,000.00 to get out of jail and had to go into a hospital to have medications administered-also stolen was my laptop and .357 magnum.
A botched shoulder replacement has cost me the use of my right arm and has actually increased my pain . Now I have NO way to protect myself save hand to hand-and as I am just getting used to being left handed -I doubt I could stop a home invasion by a smurf .
I reside in Indiana and am truly afraid to try and purchase a weapon as my last encounter with the police left me beaten pretty badly. (See above) .I have moved since the last incident and am just now getting out of debt and have saved to purchase a light weight 9MM-yet am truly afraid to try and purchase one.I have talked to gun store owners and all they will say is they will sell me the weapon and then see what happens on the back ground check.They also say they will NOT give my money back and will alert the authorities if my background check comes back DENIED. I was exonerated last time but still had my door kicked in and my head stomped on and came away with NO respect for our Judicial system . I repeat-I did NOT leave my home.
Anyone with knowledge of Indiana gun laws -please post. I HATE living in fear.




posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I did say that I understand and accept totally the fact that you can have arms at home to defend your family or your business. What I discuss here is the fact lots of people WALK around with arms, good people yes, but also dangerous criminals ok, but it must be the good people are very afraid of something otherwise they wouldn't walk around with guns no ???
That is why we have to look into society and ask : where does that fear come from ? we do not live any longer with dangerous animals around, with cowboys and indians so what are we afraid of ? the powers in place are doing everything to push fear in society and in the people on the highest level possible, the fear for extremists
( 9/11 ), the fear for police force and brutallity, the fear for " the other " , fear for bombs and etc etc ...
Here in Europ we may have guns at home with autorisation, but no guns at all in the streets.
Really, we feel better up here.
People with fear can easily be manipulated by the powers, lots of people with fundamental fear will in the end also need pills to mask their fear ..
life is a risk, you cannot eliminate all risks, but fear is the danger : look at Tunesia, the revolt up there happens and what do the people in the streets tell us : " now we have no more fear, not at all, we fight for democracy without fear at all " - fear is gone, real life can begin !!!


You completely miss it. If someone carries a sidearm, they likely are doing it so that they don't have fear, not because they do have fear.

Take me, for example. I will regularly carry 10's of thousands of dollars for deposit at the bank. I am a large man, capable of possibly removing body parts barehanded. I do not fear much, and i am impossible to intimidate. Carrying a sidearm would still make sense, as it is better to have and not want than to want and not have. Especially with that kind of money involved.

Some people do have fear. Fear that a 6 minute response time is not sufficient.

And some people see it as their duty to ensure the personal responsibility of their protection in the event the need should arise.

I suppose you can contemplate what would drive a desire to carry a sidearm. But at the end, it is just supposition of ones motives, and on the scale you are talking it is far too much generalization to even be a worthwhile conversation outside of simple contemplation.

Now you...you live in Europe. What kind of predators live in your vicinity? Did you read my prior response? Around here we have 700lb hogs (they will kill you), bobcats, mountain lions, badgers, coyotes, wolves, rattlesnakes, foxes, and the Mexican drug cartels. You tell me why i want to have a sidearm.
edit on 22-1-2011 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Sunlionspirit
 



I don't think you understand the term "right". You do not regret or "pitty" a right. It is something that man is born with, given by his Creator (whatever that may be). The fact that you exist provides you with simple, basic rights based on the fact of what you are: a man.

If you are in favor of limiting these rights, then you are in favor of tyranny. You are in favor of over ruling man's Creator" and with holding the rights that we were granted through the fact of our very existence.

This Creator can be God, it can be just the natural evolutionary process...it is whatever is the cause of humanity. No single man has the wisdom or insight to second guess this creative force. I doubt many tyrants actually have such hubris. It is more than likely about ulterior motives. Regardless, why would someone want to impose tyranny on another man? Is this tyranny not the real fear?

Man is best in his natural state. Using tools as weapons is part of this natural state.
edit on 22-1-2011 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 

no I think YOU miss it : if people carry a gun of course they will think having no more fear, but they use the gun to MASK their fear ...... the fundamental fear you do not have to have !!! a gun will help you, just like pills, to mask the fundamental fear in your spirit .... you feel strong with a gun, we feel good and strong here in Europ without guns, no need for it because people are more gentle, still more human, I do not say we also have no problems up here, but no real fear in the streets .....
I understand of course you need to protect yourself when you have to transport cash to the bank or so !! of course, but that is another problem, then you are really in danger if some know you are doing that !!!!
I thought we were speaking about Joe Sixpack and his guns all over his body
Peace



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Yep, but you are not living any longer in your " natural " state ..... think about that ....

who is KILLING this natural world ??? Neo-capitalism with BP oil spill and Monsanto zombie food, crazy neo-cons with their hidden agenda and 9/11 crimes ... etc etc ...
you know, it is NOT our fellow human being who is killing the world, it is the neo-con Powers in place we did elect because of fear and lack of political comprehension ....
so, your and our natural state is just a dream gone into a nightmare !!
I HOPE it will return some day into a more human society with natural food ( thanks Monsanto, bye bye that crap food ), natural good fish ( thanks BP for taking more responsability ), more peace ( thanks Zionist for eliminating that cancer up there in Palestine ), more love ( thanks fellow human beings ), more real life with a good beer on a big bike !!! PEACE god damned !!!

I really do not want to limit your rights, of course not, I just say it is better for society and everybody to understand some rights are just much too dangerous in the hands of some .....
would you like your child, if you have one, to play with fire and eventually burn your house ?? no, you will not accept it !!!!! not all people are smart, think about it - not even all policemen ....
poor child, his rights are limited ????
edit on 22-1-2011 by Sunlionspirit because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-1-2011 by Sunlionspirit because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Sunlionspirit
 


Very well.


BTW, i think that it is hilarious that so many people use "Joe Sixpack" when referring to the average American. I don't know why...i just think it is funny.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Hate to argue points with a Texan (I use to be one... still am at heart... Hook 'em Horns!), but convicted felons are no longer full citizens. Felons loose two (2) prime rights that make an American a full citizen.

1 - Right to vote
2 - Right to bear arms

They CAN get these rights back if


if he receives an official pardon from a governor or other official in a position to issue pardons. Read more: What Rights Do Convicted Felons Lose? | eHow.com www.ehow.com...


I am not sure how many people are aware of this, but a 16 year old person CAN own and operate a firearm, BUT a parent has to make the purchase. Said child must be accompanied by an adult while operating the firearm as well. The only exception is with handguns. Children can operate firearms at age 2 (that is an exaggeration, obviously, but I am using it to make a point) if accompanied by an adult. There is no law (that I am aware of) which prohibits children from operating a firearm completely. The only stipulation is that they must be with an adult.

This is is common knowledge from growing up in the country. If you don't believe it, then look into it.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Seitler
 



When i was growing up, guns were had by kids who's parents allowed it. no one really questioned it. I remember one friend had a crossbow. Talk about power...



ETA: re felons...it is a shame the way they are treated. Once you have paid your debt, you have paid your debt. "All men are created equal". Including felons. My best employee spent 16 years in San Quentin. Moved to Texas when he was released to get away from the gang life.
edit on 22-1-2011 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I do believe in second chances. But if a repeat offender tries to get rights back, I think he/she should be completely denied. Yes, I am for the right to bear arms... 100%; however, we do need to make sure that negligent and 'bad' people are kept from having power they are not capable of handling responsibly. I think the gov't falls under the 'bad' label lately, so they should have their power removed too!



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by Seitler
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I do believe in second chances. But if a repeat offender tries to get rights back, I think he/she should be completely denied. Yes, I am for the right to bear arms... 100%; however, we do need to make sure that negligent and 'bad' people are kept from having power they are not capable of handling responsibly. I think the gov't falls under the 'bad' label lately, so they should have their power removed too!


Do those laws actually work? If a felon wants a gun, do we really limit him by denying him legal purchase?

Especially when it is the ATF that is responsible for the smuggled guns?

Seems to me that the laws just provide a way to victimize someone (who has paid their debt) and provide a purchaser for a black market item. Supporting the black market by providing more customers promotes crime to a greater degree than anything else i can think of.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I do agree, but this is one of those grey areas in which a good answer is tough to give. I do feel that the black market is being fed by the gov't. We could give felons the right to purchase firearms... but at the same time, why would they do it the legal way when they can get their weapons on the black market already? I know some will be better people later on in life, but 90% will end up right back in the crime life. If nothing else, we give them back their gun rights, and just remove their voting and public office rights. I think that is fair.

(Maybe we should tattoo a scarlet letter "F" on the top of their hands, lol)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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It used to be that a felony was a serious ordeal. Now I'm a felon if I take a whiz on a tree along a highway and someone decides to get offended by it.

My ex's father was a felon for refusing to pay child support to a woman who could not positively identify him as the father of her child through DNA testing. Say what you will about the man's personal life - he was by no means irresponsible when it came to firearms and politics.

While rather physically intimidating - he's one of the least violent people I know - and not prone to physical outbursts.

The basis for using a felony as a reason to deny rights to a firearm is simply inadequate.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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And I care why Tubby thinks I own guns? Nope, sorry, but I'd take into account my cats critical thinking before I would any of the drivel Moore spews. Besides, the Constitution is on my side in this debate... I think my chances of keeping my guns is way better than Moore's chance of ever being relevant.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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Michael Moore means well, he just doesnt have his eyes totally open on the gun issue. Things he pointed out regarding our healthcare and wallstreet have been spot on... But, he's an anti-gun guy... On the gun issue, he and I disagree, but I'm still glad he's out there making his movies and arguing his views.

I think anyone who wants to call him names about his weight need to look a little deeper inside themselves before throwing around shallow juvenile insults.
edit on 23-1-2011 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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Well, folks I think that I am forced to agree with (oh god I hate to say it) Michael Moore on this one. But only on a technacality . Looking up the definition of 'racism' on wiki I found it to include 'somatic' (as held by the .....drum roll ...the UN!).

In the : www.thefreedictionary.com... we find :
so·mat·ic (s-mtk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or affecting the body, especially as distinguished from a body part, the mind, or the environment; corporeal or physical.

Now if I'm reading this right,and if anyone is of "the mind" to ...( insert crime here)...color me prejudice, and watch gun control in action.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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Moore is a fat subhuman liberal piece of crap -



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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It must be horrible to remain in such a constant state of fear like that. I'd hate to come knocking on one of your doors looking for help. Is everyone here getting robbed on a day to day basis? I think we should turn off the T.V. and go outside for a bit, it's not too bad out there.

I use my guns to keep my freezer full of meat and to provide protection. Not once have I considered – or like in this thread boasted and laughed about – shooting to kill people with them. If this makes me lefty, communist, fascist, racist, liberal, or whatever trendy smear words you use to discredit people.. then so be it. But there's no way I'm going to live my life in fear like a caged animal.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Sure some people, women in particular, own guns out of fear and for personal defense but not the majority. I think the majority of gun owners are aggressive and intimidating. It is part of our evolution for males to hunt. More likely number and velocity of weaponry has something to do with genetics and/or testoserone levels.

Mediation, cooperation (mutually beneficial cooperation that is) and effective, efficient, long range solutions are lost when force or violence is used and submission is strong armed. Immediate compliance does not preclude future rebellion, return violence.
So as an answer or solution to fear, it is fallible, short sighted, inflammatory, and temporary.

Does anyone dare print the number of incidences where a gun saved the day?
Omit Police in the line of duty - now compare this figure to all other accidental and criminal gun related deaths? Is the remaining number of deaths worth implementing some sober and serious controls on firearms? I think you will find we have waged wars over less human carnage.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrWhite665
Moore is a fat subhuman liberal piece of crap -

sarcasm or racism ??
how can you speak about subhuman beings ???




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