Michael Moore - People own guns because they're fearful racists.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The fact is that Michael Moore displays the likes of Cuba as a paradise for Health Care, despises the Capitalist system yet benefits from the basic idea of capitalism.
He is an ass and a liar.

reply to post by macman


Oh for crying out loud. Restrictions of rights? Why do you find it necessary to continue to refer to me as some sort of 'slave' as a ridiculous insult? I am just as free as you, except that I enjoy other freedoms than you - while you have your guns, I can feel safe in the knowledge that I can receive medical attention at no cost to myself whenever I need it.

See how it works now??

reply to post by macman


Actually Moore is just being smart and using the system against itself.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by macman

 

Oh for crying out loud. Restrictions of rights? Why do you find it necessary to continue to refer to me as some sort of 'slave' as a ridiculous insult? I am just as free as you, except that I enjoy other freedoms than you - while you have your guns, I can feel safe in the knowledge that I can receive medical attention at no cost to myself whenever I need it.

See how it works now??

edit on 20/1/2011 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Huh??
Who said slave?
You are not as free as I am. You may have more security in your feelings, but that is it.
Nice to duck and dodge the comment about linking the US Govt foreign policy to gun rights.
You medical attention is not at no cost. You pay for it in taxes, and so does every other person in OZ.
Spare me the BS that it is free. If that was the case, then the docs and nurses would not draw a paycheck.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by macman

 

Actually Moore is just being smart and using the system against itself.

He is smart for using the system. But spare me the crap that he is the champion of truth.

Originally posted by questcequecest
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

because it's our constitutional right

i am sick to death of you people saying this...
who gives two #s, u hang onto this constitution thing and forget everything else
if u didnt have guns youd be better off.
wheres the progress in following something written 200 years ago
"The United States Constitution is the oldest written constitution still in use by any nation in the world"
err that is not a good thing.

you think your country was free when they wrote it??

People from the UK have much less to worry about. What is the largest animal in the UK? The neighbors dog? Yeah...down here in Texas we have 700lb hogs, bobcats, mountain lions, coyotes, foxes, wolves, and an occasional badger.

Add to that, in my town of 30k people we have 6 prisons and a mental health hospital that houses "forensic" patients. Yeah, i am keeping my guns.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

The fact is that Michael Moore displays the likes of Cuba as a paradise for Health Care, despises the Capitalist system yet benefits from the basic idea of capitalism.
He is an ass and a liar.

Actually, it was not to praise cuba, it was to shame our business practices here in the states.

Sort of like if its found out somolia has a better veterans affairs than the states, its not to show how wonderful somolia is, but rather to make us question what the hell is going wrong here.

But if thats what you got from it, then I guess thats what you got from it...I blame comprehension skills. Some people just miss the point.

reply to post by totalmetal


I don't feel I am a racist. On the contrary a good portion of my family are mixed heritage. That being said, there is no color written on my shotgun shells. Just let (insert colorful language here) find out they all bleed the same color. My family comes first.

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Australian and UK and other cousins of us in the US:

Because you guys rolled over and gave up your God given right to self-protection like a bunch of wusses, means you don't have a leg to stand on when criticizing us in the US for keeping that right, fighting for it.

You foreign critics are like a Steer (castrated bull) calling yourselves a Bull - when you'd probably much rather have restored what was taken from you, and are jealous of real bulls when you see them.

The second amendment is only second to the right of free speech.

How much longer will you Aussies and Brits even have free speech?

Not long.

edit on 19-1-2011 by mydarkpassenger because: (no reason given)

Your calling another person a wuss..... Is it not you who feels he cannot protect himself or his loved ones without a weapon present.... Is it not you who feels the need for a weapon to feel safe.... And the argument that other countries are just jealous...is such a playground insult. Nyah nyah ur juss jealous...lol. I thought this site was full of adults...not school children in a sandbox...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
People from the UK have much less to worry about. What is the largest animal in the UK? The neighbors dog? Yeah...down here in Texas we have 700lb hogs, bobcats, mountain lions, coyotes, foxes, wolves, and an occasional badger.

Add to that, in my town of 30k people we have 6 prisons and a mental health hospital that houses "forensic" patients. Yeah, i am keeping my guns.

A shotgun is not the issue here. (in the UK, you can get shotguns (farming and whatnot)). Handguns are the issue. You don't hunt or protect against wildlife with handguns, you use shotguns.

I fully support shotguns..hell, would give everyone a shotgun on earth if it was possible. They are big, bulky, and will in a pinch protect against home invasions on the occasional time it happens. You also need some knowledge to use it. a handgun has a specific purpose...that being, to kill humans quickly.

I think handguns need to have some serious rules on them...longer waiting period, a safety course, etc etc etc...basically institute the canadian way of doing things. This would secure the right, but not before they showed the ability.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Tragically (stupidly?) funny to see these australians ranting about guns after they basically acted like pussies in letting their government take theirs. Misery loves company, so now they want others to join them in their emasculated, non-defensible world.

Easy on using the P word....after all Is it not you who feels he cannot protect himself or his loved ones without a weapon present.... Is it not you who feels the need for a weapon to feel safe....

So a weapon makes you feel like a man?

Hmmm.... So tell me who is the pussy....

reply to post by SaturnFX


How is i that health care got injected into this?
Facts are he is a liar, and just uses the system he claims is not right, to better himself. He is a contradiction.
My comprehension skills are just fine thank you. It is just that they do not fall into the ideas and thinking of your mindset.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
People from the UK have much less to worry about. What is the largest animal in the UK? The neighbors dog? Yeah...down here in Texas we have 700lb hogs, bobcats, mountain lions, coyotes, foxes, wolves, and an occasional badger.

Add to that, in my town of 30k people we have 6 prisons and a mental health hospital that houses "forensic" patients. Yeah, i am keeping my guns.

A shotgun is not the issue here. (in the UK, you can get shotguns (farming and whatnot)). Handguns are the issue. You don't hunt or protect against wildlife with handguns, you use shotguns.

I fully support shotguns..hell, would give everyone a shotgun on earth if it was possible. They are big, bulky, and will in a pinch protect against home invasions on the occasional time it happens. You also need some knowledge to use it. a handgun has a specific purpose...that being, to kill humans quickly.

I think handguns need to have some serious rules on them...longer waiting period, a safety course, etc etc etc...basically institute the canadian way of doing things. This would secure the right, but not before they showed the ability.

Handgun hunting is very popular.
So a shotgun can't be used to kill a person? Your logic is flawed.
A shotgun kills the same as a pistol, rifle or knife.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

How is i that health care got injected into this?
Facts are he is a liar, and just uses the system he claims is not right, to better himself. He is a contradiction.
My comprehension skills are just fine thank you. It is just that they do not fall into the ideas and thinking of your mindset.

Its a thread about Michael Moore.
I opened by saying that I found it amusing when the head of communications for SIGNA apologised for michael moore for lying and slandering him to promote disinformation about SICKO

Here is the deal. You constantly call him a liar. yet what does he lie about? You realize that those whom trained you to call him a liar have since come out and apologised to Michael, saying they lied to try and counter his truth.

Your undying and unyielding trust in corporate messages above and beyond people investigating these animals is duely noted. Not to worry though, corporate masters will be along shortly to tell you how to think about this.

My mindset...find the truth behind the retoric. Michael Moore is a investigative documentry maker..he exposes high powered crimes...yes, there will be lots of blowback from corporations and corporate purchased politicians. Consider that for just a moment...forget the name and the natural bias your programmed with and just think of that on principle...a guy exposing giants for being criminals...

Now realize which one your cheering for.



Now go do some actual research into the alligations..ignore the common sources demanding you demonize a man whom asks questions and exposes facts.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Really, ok I will bite. Who past the single person you have listed has since come out and apologized?
No man rules me or tells me how to think.
He is still a person who benefits from the things he deems as evil. That in itself is a lie.

Originally posted by macman
Handgun hunting is very popular.
So a shotgun can't be used to kill a person? Your logic is flawed.
A shotgun kills the same as a pistol, rifle or knife.

Yes, but there is a philosophical difference, and psychological

handgun hunting...bah, no need for that. might as well just make a case to hunt with granades.

A shotgun requires alot of intent. its fumbling around with a actual large tool, yes, it will still go off randomly, target the wrong person, etc...but there is a extra moment of sanity needed.
And its not very easy to conceal a shotgun..you cant just tuck it down your pants and walk into a supermarket...you need to sling it over your back (or wear a very long trenchcoat). Also, if someone goes nuts with a shotgun, a simple tackling of him removes the danger...a person with a handgun tackled can keep shooting and killing.

I am not saying ban handguns, I am saying control its sale to only safe and sane owners. Which part of this sounds bad?

reply to post by andy1033


See, this is where I disagree. I am a gun owner, and responsible about it. I only bring it to the range to practice and keep it in my house because PHX is a crime filled area where break-ins happen all the time (even though I have my CWP - which is not needed anymore).

Now, if someone breaks in, and I can get to my handgun, then God help us both. I do not plan on using it, nor do I want to...but the fact that it is in the house in case I need it is a good thing.

Originally posted by macman
He is still a person who benefits from the things he deems as evil. That in itself is a lie.

Capitalism is not evil. Capitalism is fuel to stimulate industry

Corporatism is not capitalism...well, it is actually a mutated trait.

Capitalism. Chain stores, downtown districts, etc.
Corporatism: walmart, empty downtown districts, funneled resources to the very few.

I am pro capitalism and anti-corporatism.

The hayday of America was when capitalism ruled and corporatism was not very big...now capitalism is almost dead. we got too big to fail industries (baking, auto, etc). These mega corps own the politicians, have the size to where they can soak the initial cost of import/export to send all manufacturing and technocal jobs overseas for cheap labor, outsourcing, etc. Corporatism is a destroyer of capitalism.

He is benefitting from a capitalist society and his big beef is railing against corporatism. This is like a person using their freedom to speak out against anarchy. I see no hypocracy..I see a person screaming against a system being corrupted.

And thus the puppet masters get their way once again.

What is everyone thinking? Can't you see you have been utterly divided? Can't you see that such useless and circular argumentation is futile towards the progress of humanity?

At this point in our history - humanity is not evolved enough to separate ourselves from the weapons we have. Governments have them, people have them - weapons of all shapes and sizes - think about it... from the little buck knife up to the nuclear bomb, we have weapons.

Deal with the reality of the situation instead of the fantasy of the circumstances. Many of the people on here who are against guns can't deal with the fact that weapons exist in every form.

What Michael Moore is dealing with is fantasy. Earth will not have a utopian society if all weapons are removed because humanity will find other ways to kill. Rocks, sticks, hands... humans kill. We need to evolve first before we even think about getting rid of weapons. Think about it.

Please let me address a few things in this thread.

The constitution is old, written 200 years ago it is outdated and things have changed. It's irrelevant.

Foolish stance. Nothing has changed. We have more technology than back then, that's about all. Human nature has not changed. People still try to take advantage of others, whether that be a criminal trying to victimize you or a politician (another criminal) trying to gain more power over you. The constitution offers checks and balances so as to avoid that. There is a whole lot more to it than just the first and second amendment.

Is it perfect? Nothing really is, but it's still pretty good. I truly believe that people who make statements about the constitution being too old or irrelevant have never actually read it or the history behind why the various parts are in there.

Your rights have been taken away and your guns have done nothing to prevent it.

True, on paper our rights are under attack. Constantly. However, these laws on paper have not really impacted most people at all. They still go about their daily lives without much care other than what pertains to their personal life.

We haven't had much reason to launch an armed revolt. Despite what most anti-gun advocates believe, defenders of the 2nd amendment aren't exactly frothing at the mouth wishing for a devastating and bloody war to break out in our country. It should be avoided and only even considered as an extreme last resort. Would you have us start killing people because we don't like a piece of legislation passed? Who's the violent one now?

You complain that we are all violence loving, sick in the head, gun nuts.... then complain because we haven't broken out into violent war yet. So which is it?

You think you could defend against the government? Your guns would be useless against them anyway so the second amendment is irrelevant

Wrong. The entire us military, including reservists, is just over two million people. This is not only combat troops but all active duty.

Estimates on private ownership of firearms in America are around 80 million, give or take, with nearly 300 million firearms in private ownership. In many places registration of rifles and shotguns is not necessary so these numbers are most likely higher. Also, I could be wrong, but I believe this stat is for legally owned firearms. Who knows how many are really out there.

There is no possible way the military could control even a few states much less the entire US mainland. It is too large. It would turn into a guerrilla war from hell. A total nightmare for any military. Sure, they could just nuke us all and drop bombs, destroy all the cities, etc ... but that kind of defeats the purpose now doesn't it? You don't rid your house of rats by burning it down.

Not to mention, a great many of those armed civilians have been trained be the very military they will now be up against. They know their tactics, as well as their weakness. They are marksmen, snipers, explosive experts, strategic planners, etc ... Couple that with many of the military refusing to engage Americans and/or abandoning their posts .... it's just not going to go well for the government if they decide to use the military against us ... and they know it.


You don't need a gun to defend yourself or your home. You can use a baseball bat/stun gun/knife/rock/pointy stick/ etc ...

All of these weapons are close quarter hand to hand weapons. If someone is victimizing you or your family do you want to be playing games? What if you are a 5'1" woman and your assailant is 6'5" and 260 lbs. Do you think it's a good idea to engage in hand to hand combat it that situation? Have you ever seen people stabbed with their own knives? I have. Many crimes and home invasions involve more than one assailant. Whipping out your Louisville Slugger or super Rambo survival knife in that situation will most likely get you beaten and/or killed, maybe even raped if you possess the proper parts.

A gun is an equalizer. It allows you to defend against superior numbers as well as the physically superior. Criminals don't play fair.


Americans like their guns because of the sick addiction to watching someone die/suffer.. that or they like the testosterone flowing when they know they could end someone’s life, if.... they..... wanted....... too!

That's just idiotic. Despite what Hollywood portrays, most Americans are not running through the streets shooting it out and busting through the kitchens of chinese restaurants in pursuit of their target while holding their guns sideways. Jeez, 300 million+ firearms in possession.... how are any of us still alive?

I think you'll also find that people who are obsessed with killing and watching people die like to take their time and torture their victims. This negates the use of a gun, better to use some rope and a knife to do that.

People were killing each other for fun long before guns existed .. in some pretty gruesome ways I might add. Ever hear of the Coliseum? They weren't Americans by the way.


Guns are banned in the uk, although people do still have them, those that do are generally in the criminal world and mostly use them On other criminals.. Not running into schools and killing fellow pupils..

and

I agree no one should have guns, but in london, its the people you should be afriad off, that have them.

So what you are saying is that the gun ban had little effect on the criminals, only really taking the guns from law abiding citizens and reducing their ability to defend against the criminals who still possess them? Notice you said "mostly". I suppose this means the armed criminals do still use their weapons on the now disarmed population?

Despite what most people outside the US (and many here also) think, we have the same situation here. Most gun crime is committed because of drugs and gangs, usually against other drug dealers/users and gang members. Of course every time some 16 year old criminal gets involved he is always portrayed as some innocent little angel by his family. Sadly, sometimes they are innocent, mostly.... they got involved with something they shouldn't have.


Only the police or security guards should possess guns.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but here in the US the police are under NO obligation to protect you. This has been established in the courts. Even if they were, if you are being attacked NOW, the police arriving in ten minutes is little help.


Nobody needs an assault weapon!

The vast majority of weapons called assault weapons are not. It is a term overused and abused by the media and anti gun crowd to scare the uninformed and somehow make people think that a bullet fired from a semi auto black rifle is magically more deadly than one fired from a "traditional' wood adorned semi auto rifle. By using such an argument you are confirming that you really don't know what you are talking about and are merely repeating propaganda.

...

After reading and hearing countless arguments on the issue I have come to a conclusion. Those in other countries who have either never had the right or have had it taken from them, whether they admit it to themselves or not, seem to have the "if I can't have it nobody should" mentality.

I say this not to be inflammatory. It's just that their arguments are usually not very well thought out, easily countered, don't support the facts, and are often just plain illogical. Now I'm sure someone will come to say that just because I disagree with someone it doesn't make me right. True, but I also have the ability to concede that someone makes a good point even if I don't agree with it. So far, I've yet to see one.