Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
But Lingle claimed Obama was born at Kapiolani so all the home birth arguments should be moot

Now I understand why you cling to what Lingle said, because you need it, as if somehow they are legally binding words that trump documents issued by the state. Because it’s apparent that under every scenario you propose the vital records would nevertheless list Hawaii as his birth place, and that’s the ball game.

But it doesn’t matter what Lingle said, she could have said he was born on Mars. What matters is what the official documentation says. According to Hawaii’s statutes §338-12:

Certificates filed within thirty days after the time prescribed therefor shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
No, aptness is right in this follow-up statement:

The statement that they are both the same thing. I know. That is what I said too.

Aptness is right that it's a certification and that it's only saying that there's another record somewhere that proves what it's claiming, in this case a record that only Fukino has seen.

Um...yeah that is what a certificate is.

Originally posted by IamCorrect
Yes, there is evidence. In the first 65 seconds of the following clip, Dr. Jerome Corsi explains this, and even gives an example of a famous person who was not born in Hawaii and yet was given a short form birth certificate.

Where is the evidence you promised? Corsi saying something on the radio is not "evidence" of anything other than that he had access to a radio show.

Please explain to me the birther line of thinking that proclaims to want all manner of proof to assuage all doubt yet anything WND prints or Cosi just plain ol says is gospel truth to you folks. How does that make sense.

Originally posted by aptness
it’s apparent that under every scenario you propose the vital records would nevertheless list Hawaii as his birth place

What's your point? I've said all along I think he was probably born in Hawaii? Why should I expect the records to show something else?

My complaint is, the "facts" don't sound like facts at all but like a story that's made up due to all the inconsistencies such as conflicting reports about which hospital he was born in and several reports that he wasn't even born in a hospital.

If they release a birth certificate from Kapiolani showing that's where he was born, and factcheck checks it out like they did the certification, that's fine with me. I'm not trying to prove he wasn't born in Hawaii and that's all it would take to shut me up.

And if they don't release it, and they don't have to, then I can keep on saying what questions I have and why I have them. Nobody has to answer them, but voters can vote with their vote.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
What's your point? I've said all along I think he was probably born in Hawaii?

So, why do you think he was probably born in Hawaii? I'm curious, considering the many doubts you have posted on here.

My complaint is, the "facts" don't sound like facts at all but like a story that's made

Thats what surfing WND and other rightwing media sites will do. Raise questions and suspicions over things that would otherwise be straight forward.

inconsistencies such as conflicting reports

What are these again?

about which hospital he was born in and several reports that he wasn't even born in a hospital.

Several reports? You mean media outlets and websites can't make mistakes? Orly?

If they release a birth certificate from Kapiolani showing that's where he was born, and factcheck checks it out like they did the certification, that's fine with me.

factcheck already did an analysis and found his short form birth certificate was authentic. As for him releasing another birth certificate with the hospital name, it'd be silly to claim that this difference will automatically change your mind. If that is the case then clearly authenticity means little to you than a word.

I'm not trying to prove he wasn't born in Hawaii

Nope, you are spending all your time on here raising all kinds of questions and suspicions (with your own dissatisfactions regarding the presidents policies). You are doing anything but recognize the evidence in favour of him being born here. That is very telling. To make is worse, you are trying so hard to distinguish yourself from the average birther, it is amazing.

And if they don't release it, and they don't have to, then I can keep on saying what questions I have

Yep, you can continue doing that for his entire presidency, and it ain't ganna get you no where. But hey, if that is how you choose to run your crusade, ok.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
So, why do you think he was probably born in Hawaii? I'm curious, considering the many doubts you have posted on here.

Well Fukino said it right? And I'd like to believe Fukino.

My complaint is, the "facts" don't sound like facts at all but like a story that's made up when Snopes switches hospitals, etc.

Sure Snopes and other media sites can make mistakes, I admit that. You don't seem to want to admit that the same applies to Fukino. So yes I'd feel better if factcheck looked at what Fukino looked at so we don't have to rely solely on Fukino's word. If you have a different opinion, I respect your right to have it even if I don't understand why you put so much faith in one person's word when you're constantly making arguments about how fallible everybody is, Lingle, the media, Abercrombie, Adams, etc etc. Everyone in the world except Fukino is capable of making an error, seems to be your point of view. I don't understand that, but I accept it and don't think I'm going to change your mind so don't see any point in arguing with you about that.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Well Fukino said it right? And I'd like to believe Fukino.

So you believe Fukino is probably right, and you believe Obama was probably born in Hawaii, but you want another certification of live birth released with the hospital name printed and that should do it for you? I don't view this as any honest attempt at assuring this president is eligible. I think this is just an attempt to get your way politically.

Sure Snopes and other media sites can make mistakes, I admit that. You don't seem to want to admit that the same applies to Fukino.

That Fukino can make mistakes? Ofcourse I think it applies to her, but I am yet to see where she has contradicted herself again? You referenced me the governor claiming Obama's hospital of birth and Fukino's silence, but this doesnt prove anything beyond assumption.

So yes I'd feel better if factcheck looked at what Fukino looked at so we don't have to rely solely on Fukino's word.

And factcheck already did this, and referenced Fukino time and time again:

www.factcheck.org...
www.politifact.com...

On Oct. 31, 2008, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, issued this statement: "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore I, as director of health for the state of Hawaii, along with the registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the state of Hawaii."

Even the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up.

Over? No way.

All that proved, the birthers concluded, was that there is, in fact, an original birth certificate, and that the public hasn't seen it. The new argument goes like this: Obama never published his "Birth Certificate" (a "Certificate of Live Birth") on the Internet; what he posted was a "Certification of Live Birth," what WorldNetDaily describes as "a 'short-form' document that is generated on-the-spot and based on what is contained in a computer database at the time it was printed out."

But I trust you are well aware of the analysis from these two websites. So you were probably just lying when you made the statement above.

If you have a different opinion, I respect your right to have it even if I don't understand why you put so much faith in one person's word

So you are more then happy to use the statements from Tim Adams, a person who plucked a fantastical claim out of thin air, and corsi, a known partisan, and I'm putting complete faith in Fukino? I will say I do trust Fukino more than anybody else at this moment as she is the only character in this conspiracy that actually holds the position that is relevant to Obama's birth and records. Who do you have to reference again?

when you're constantly making arguments about how fallible everybody is, Lingle, the media, Abercrombie, Adams, etc etc. Everyone in the world except Fukino is capable of making an error,

Where did I say Fukino is incapable of making an error? What I have been doing is asking you what errors Fukino made and thus far you have not provided any. As for Lingle, the media, abercrombie and so forth, neither of them hold positions with worthy access to Obama's records. Fukino is the only one. Adams? I am still astounded that you use this mans name with the rest of the government officials. What has he done again besides pulling out a claim that has absolutely nothing to show for?

but I accept it and don't think I'm going to change your mind so don't see any point in arguing with you

You know what I don't see any point in? Asking questons and making up fantastical assumptions, that I see no point in. I am here to participate in conspiracy theory discussions, you? Well you are here to make up questions so that Obama will eventually release his original birth certificate. I don't see that road taking you anywhere.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Even the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up.

I thought you disputed this yourself and said Lingle probably didn't even have access to the document???

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I thought you disputed this yourself and said Lingle probably didn't even have access to the document???

Linda Ingle doesnt have direct access to Obama's records, she only passes on information she gets from individuals who have that access, like Fukino. If you refuse to believe her or Fukino along with the authenticity of Obama's previous short form birth certificate, and you just want another short form birth certificate printed out with the hospital name, then I don't know how on earth that would pass the authenticity line for you, because I see little difference.

I'm unsure what your agenda is over here? To raise questions and speculations about Obama and Hawaiian authorities? This has little to nothing to do with true concerns over this mans eligibility for you, right? As I said before, you are not achieving anything really.

Here
www.scribd.com...

Evidence of a cover-up that DOS illegally destroyed Obama’s Mother’s passport application(s)

unlawfulpresident.com...
the appeal to DOS for Obama’s mother’s passport and consular records. Many hours of research of Department of State and National Archive policies, procedures and history strongly suggests that the federal government agency illegally and intentionally destroyed Obama’s mothers 1965 passport application and possible prior applications in an attempt to cover up Obama’s birth story and whether he is a natural born citizen as required by the Constitution.

Watch the last 5 or so minutes of Barry's speech tonight. It doesn't matter where you come from, you can still become president. Case closed, move along now.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Evidence of a cover-up that DOS illegally destroyed Obama’s Mother’s passport application(s)

No evidence at all, and when they make wrong statements like "To be legally eligible to be President of the United States both parents must be U.S.citizen and the child must be born on U.S. soil according to past Supreme Court rulings"

who should believe anything that they say!

Personally I have nothing against Abercrombie, I think he was trying to do the right thing and put the questions to rest, but unfortunately he's had just the opposite effect.

Someone posted this video in another thread about Hawaiian Governor Bear explaining what happened to rainbow glitter bear but it probably should have been posted in this thread instead:

RAINBOW GLITTER BEAR 2: Meeting Hawaiian Governor Bear
I thought it would be lame when it started but it's kinda cute, though it makes fun of Abercrombie a little bit, which may be a little unfair since I think he's really probably a good guy who just got tangled up in something over his head.

Here's a sample quote from the video:

elected republicans who demand to see Obama's birth certificate are racist.

Elected democrats who say they are going to find the birth certificate can never be racist.

The latter comment is Hawaiian Governor Bear referring to himself.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
No, aptness is right in this follow-up statement:

You mean the follow up where he changed his words to better reflect the reality of what I corrected him on and not his original point? I agree. Backtracking to agree with me is one of the smarter posts here.

Originally posted by aptness
Aptness is right that it's a certification and that it's only saying that there's another record somewhere that proves what it's claiming, in this case a record that only Fukino has seen.

Actually, I am right in that its a certification and that its only saying that there is another record somewhere. That is what I said, not aptness. Not until I corrected him. It is kind of sad that even when you all agree with my correction, you still need to frame it in an adversarial way. Now that we agree on what a certificate and certification is, many past statements in this thread need to be looked at again. Or maybe just alter what we believe is "right" some more.