Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

Originally posted by backinblack

Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn't have a tangible interest.

You'd think every US citizen would have a "tangible interest" in knowing if their president was infact eligible to hold that position... Or every soldier who has to fight under the "commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces. ..."

That language, of tangible interest, comes directly from the Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18, regarding disclosure of records, that specifies to whom the records can be disclosed. (“The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record”).

Your point of “every US citizen” or “every soldier” having the right to see Obama’s records has been rebuffed by the Courts, and explained why, but you birthers continue to ignore it.

The burden to check a candidate’s eligibility lies with Congress, as per Article II and the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and 3 USC 15. According to federal law and the Constitution, a candidate’s qualifications and certification is entirely up to Congress. No candidate has to show you any certificate, whether short or long-form, much less his original vital records.

You want to see his original records inspected? Ask Congress. You don’t think Obama is eligible for office? Don’t vote for him.

Just to add fuel to the fire prior to the presidential election Obama was born in kenya and not untill he decided to run for president did this narrative change about him being born in Kenya.

Kenyan-Born Obama All Set For US Senate – Sunday June 27, 2004

‘Sunday Standard’ In 2004, Kenya’s largest Sunday newspaper, the Sunday Standard touted Obama as a “Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful.” Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.” – Sunday Standard

Obama was also touted as “African born,” by the media in Ghana when he visited that country recently. His grandmother has stated she witnessed Obama’s birth in Mombasa, Kenya.

During a 2004 Senate debate, Alan Keyes stated that Obama was born in Kenya and was not a natural born citizen. Obama laughed and told Keyes that “only the president has to be a natural born citizen.” Obama did not deny being born in Kenya.

PS where did the media get the Idea he was born in Kenya if not from Obama himself?? However at this point its useless arguing it its not like he could be removed from his office is it.


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reply to post by Southern Guardian

It makes no sense to me to claim that Obama is spending tax payer money, and yet you cannot provide any evidence that Obama is spendingtax payer money on these birther lawsuits. Where is the evidence he's spending money on these challanges? Considering all 71 of them were dismissed.

You twist words.I didn't say he's spending money..
I said it's costing tax payers...

Where is the evidence he's spending money on these challanges?

71 court cases costs tax payers money...Who do you think payes the judges,lawyers,clerks,security etc..

You say Obama has never been asked so what do you think the 71 court cases are for?
Do you think he is not aware that people want to see it??

As far as I'm aware the only other person asked was McCain and he DID show his..

reply to post by aptness

Your point of “every US citizen” or “every soldier” having the right to see Obama’s records has been rebuffed by the Courts, and explained why, but you birthers continue to ignore it.

Yes, judges often rule on interpretation of laws...
No surprise that they interpret in favour of Obama..

Originally posted by backinblack
71 court cases costs tax payers money...Who do you think payes the judges,lawyers,clerks,security etc..

Are you serious? If those court cases exist is because it was the birthers that filed them. Nice logic you got there buddy.

As far as I'm aware the only other person asked was McCain and he DID show his..

Not true. McCain never disclosed his birth certificate. His campaign actually refused to disclose it (source)

The McCain campaign has declined to publicly release his birth certificate, but a senior campaign official showed me a copy.

reply to post by aptness

Are you serious? If those court cases exist is because it was the birthers that filed them. Nice logic you got there buddy.

No BUDDY..The "so called" birther had to do it because congress were negligent in doing what they are paid by the tax payer to do...
That is to ensure all candidates are eligable.....
Blame them.....

Originally posted by backinblack
No BUDDY..The "so called" birther had to do it because congress were negligent in doing what they are paid by the tax payer to do...

So explain to me again why is it Obama’s fault? That was your accusation, if you still remember, that he was costing taxpayers money.

That is to ensure all candidates are eligable..... Blame them.....

Me? I’m not blaming anyone.

I also noticed you didn’t address the second part of my post that put into question your claim that McCain disclosed his birth certificate. I wonder why...

From Rense today.
Obama born in Mombasa?

1dragon.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by backinblack
No BUDDY..The "so called" birther had to do it because congress were negligent in doing what they are paid by the tax payer to do...

So explain to me again why is it Obama’s fault? That was your accusation, if you still remember, that he was costing taxpayers money.

That is to ensure all candidates are eligable..... Blame them.....

Me? I’m not blaming anyone.

I also noticed you didn’t address the second part of my post that put into question your claim that McCain disclosed his birth certificate. I wonder why...

It is Obama's fault in that he MUST be aware of all this yet does not see fit to end all the speculation and cost by merely showing one "god damn piece of paper?

I am looking for McCains BC but there are many fakes out there..
I don't wish to post something that may be a fake...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Ingle: "I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate, in the birth records, of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was in fact born at Kapiolani Hospital, in Honolulu Hawaii, and that's just a fact."

That's a fact? We don't know if it's a fact or not,

I listened to the video and I am well aware of Fukino having not mentioned "Kapiolani Hospital" in her 2008 statement so evidently the governor made a mistake. That being said, to claim the government "contradicted" Fukino is completely false, this would imply that Fukino directly denied Kapiolani Hospital as Obama's birth or stated another hospital and she never did. Fukino has stopped spending time on the birther issue, she is not interested in continuously releasing statements that are eventually twisted by individuals such as yourself, and I don't blame her.

Now did the governor lie concerning Fukino's statement? Well if governor Lingle was dumb enough to think Fukino's statements from 2008 were not recorded or saved then yes, she probably did lie, but I highly doubt it. I also doubt that any Hawaiian official will convince you of Obama's birth either way as you've made it clear you do not trust their statements. All you want is that original birth certificate, and how you'll bring yourself to believe its authenticity then is beyond me, unless you go forward to demand the now elderly or dead physician at the time to make a statement. That's unrealistic so all that will be left will be your personal judgement which in my view has been unreliable thus far.

maybe the governor instructed Fukino to issue the press release about Kapiolani, or maybe she didn't.

Maybe the governor made a mistake, maybe the governor then as of now is unable to access Obama's records, and was just desperate to end the flood of calls her office receives on a weekly basis. Maybe, just maybe she had a personal conversation with Fukino. Either way, I do not see a statement from Fukino discounting what the governor said. Fukino doesn’t parrot exactly what the governor said, neither has she denied what the governor has stated. Fukino is apparently done with making statement after statement to people who continuously twist it.

She already made it clear, Obama is not obligated to release the birth certificate, any further statements from her is pointless towards birthers.

His sister said he was born at Queens. Then in another interview she said he was born at Kapiolani.

Maya stated that Obama was born in Kapiolani as far back as February 2008:

Obama's half sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, who has been campaigning aggressively in Hawaii and on the mainland, shared stories of her older brother's childhood as a way to connect to local voters.

"This is a place that's been relatively unchanged for him, and so much of who he is was born here," Soetoro-Ng told a crowd of about 200 people eating "OBAMAsadas."

"He was born in Kapiolani Medical Centre for Women & Children, two blocks up from where our grandmother still resides ... the place where he used to stick orange peels under his bed, where it got all dried out and ... nasty."

archives.starbulletin.com...

So where did the claim come in that Maya stated Obama was born at Queens medical centre?

In his Response to Defendants' Motion to Dismiss in September 2008, Berg wrote:

Furthermore, the Rainbow Edition News Letter, November 2004 Edition, published by the Education Laboratory School, attached as EXHIBIT “1”, did a several page article of an interview with Obama and his half-sister, Maya. The Rainbow Edition News Letter reports Obama was born August 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Centre in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Note that Berg does not explicitly state that Maya was quoted as saying Queens, though he would appear to want the reader to draw that conclusion. Also, Berg erroneously claims that the article included an interview with Obama, and to be nitpicky, even the most generous definition of "several" does not encompass the actual two-page length of the article.

Berg, however, does get right what Corsi and many others have subsequently gotten wrong: the Rainbow Edition Newsletter is nothing more than a high school newspaper. The article in question was written not by a reporter, and not by a colleague of Maya Soetoro, but by a high school junior.

Additionally, what is immediately obvious upon actually viewing the article is that the "Queens Medical Centre" reference is not a quote from Maya at all. It's simply referenced in the introductory paragraph. In fact, it's such a mundane fact that it's hard to imagine even an amateur journalist wasting time asking for it during an interview. Still, the fact that the reference is not credited to Maya, and the fact that the article is full of mundane facts that it would be foolhardy to attribute to Maya, this has not stopped some Birthers, like BP2 (or as I'll call him, Beeps), from insisting that the source must have been Maya Soetoro.

Sadly for Beeps and others, the source was not Maya, but rather Wikipedia. The Rainbow Edition author actually cribbed a considerable portion of his article straight from Wikipedia, as I'll now illustrate:

From the Rainbow Edition:

Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 at the Queen’s Medical Centre in Honolulu, Hawaii. Obama lived here with his parents Barack Obama, Sr. and Ann Dunham until they divorced when he was two. Obama moved back to Hawaii when he was ten and lived with his grandmother Madelyn Dunham and half-sister of our very own, Maya Soetoro.

barackryphal.blogspot.com...

There is no evidence pointing to Maya ever making the claim that Obama was born at Queen's medical centre. If you spent half as much effort researching objectively as opposed to gathering evidence for the birther cause you would not be spouting so much misinformation.

Fact-checking organization Snopes changed the "facts" about the location of Obama's birth

Snopes does not have direct access to Obama's birth records, they are capable of getting information wrong just as any other newspaper or website. Much of the information you have referenced originates from such websites and links as World net Daily who have time and time again contradicted it's self or misinformed. You have also time and time again referenced such individuals as Corsi and keys who have time again spread misinformation and are well known partisans, so it is rather hypocritical for you to talk about snopes.

I got news for you and all the other anti-birthers out there. Real facts don't change like that.

No, real facts don't change, but people can be misinformed about the facts.

Again, nobody seems to know where the president was born,

And how do you know this? Because an original birth certificate has not been personally presented to you of all people, nobody knows? You can apply that same logic to the last 43 presidents, because you don't personally know, nobody else will know or can confirm. Fact is Obama presented his short form birth certificate which is acceptable under the state of Hawaii. You may not personally know exactly where Obama was born, but he is recorded legally as being born in Hawaii. I don't personally know where you were born, regardless of whether you present me a birth certificate or not.

And this should be the easiest thing to resolve, and would be if Obama took Okubo up on her offer to provide the vital records.

If you refuse to believe statements from Fukino, or the fact he presented his short form birth certificate, the original birth certificate will not do anything different than make you concoct more questions about this president. You know full well him releasing his original birth certificate will not end this conspiracy, or the many other conspiracies about him. Obama releasing his birth certificate will not change your personal dislike or suspicions about him. But yes, you want him to show his birth certificate so that birthers will get their way and that to me is childish. The elections came and went; you cannot always get your way.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


The only FACTS I need to know are..

1) Obama is well and trully aware of the questions regarding his birth issues..

2) Obama can end the speculation if he wants to.

3) Obama has chosen not to...

End of debate for me....
The rest is simply irrelevant.....

reply to post by backinblack


Ah yes, I see you continue to run away from your previous comment toward the beginning of this thread:

Really?? There is abundant information out there on say Bush, Clinton or Kennedy..
There is next to nothing on Obama..

I happily answered that previous post of yours, now, you have to show us where the abundant information about other presidents.

Where are their original birth certificates?
Where are these newspaper announcements of their births?

It hardly seems credible for you to insist this president is hiding something if you have absolutely nothing to show for all other presidents or politicians. You talk about this president being different from the previous ones, how so again? References or links would be nice.

And regarding the 71 birther lawsuits, it is up to you to prove that Obama spent tax payer money on it and howmuch as this is a claim you continiously make.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

It hardly seems credible for you to insist this president is hiding something if you have absolutely nothing to show for all other presidents or politicians. You talk about this president being different from the previous ones, how so again? References or links would be nice.

And regarding the 71 birther lawsuits, it is up to you to prove that Obama spent tax payer money on it and howmuch as this is a claim you continiously make.

I'm over these silly games...
I don't need to show people how much the Bush or Kennedy family were in the news, they already know that..
They also know there is precious little known of the Obama family..

Twisting again? I didn't say Obama directly spent money..
It's the use of tax payers money on court cases ( yes, every case costs tax payers) that could of been avoided with the simple showing of ONE lousy piece of paper..

"Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing"

Now you may continue sprouting whatever you wish..
The people know the truth...

Originally posted by backinblack
It is Obama's fault in that he MUST be aware of all this yet does not see fit to end all the speculation and cost by merely showing one "god damn piece of paper?

Suppose Obama orders the Department of Health of Hawaii to disclose his records. This would probably be done by either posting it on the DOH’s website, or presented live by the Director of DOH on a press conference, I don’t know.

However it would be done, why would it convince people who refuse to accept the statement made by the Director of DOH that Obama was born in Hawaii? Or for that matter, those that claim the certificate Obama presented is a forgery? In light of their claims, why would they believe this newly presented evidence?

I am looking for McCains BC but there are many fakes out there..
I don't wish to post something that may be a fake...

Don’t look for it too hard because here’s the thing: McCain never disclosed it. The birth certificates we have of McCain were apparently annexed on a brief of a lawsuit against McCain by Fred Hollander.

I have looked and I haven’t been able to find how Hollander has gotten ahold of those certificates, or if they are even legitimate.

Wheres that abundant information about other presidents you were talking about? You continue to run away from your past statement.

Originally posted by backinblack
I'm over these silly games...
I don't need to show people how much the Bush or Kennedy family were in the news, they already know that..
They also know there is precious little known of the Obama family..

And once again you fail to reference anything regarding the births G W Bush, Clinton, or Kennedy. You have nothing aside from talk.

It's the use of tax payers money on court cases ( yes, every case costs tax payers)

You clearly made the claim that Obama was wasting tax payer money which is false. This would imply that Obama is the one waging these lawsuits which he is not.

Birthers are the ones wasting the courts time and money over an issue that Obama is not clearly obligated to deal with (something they or you don't seem to understand). So, I find it funny you are blaming Obama for the fact that birthers choose to waste the courts time. Thankfully though, Orly will be fitting part of the bill for wasting tax payer money, $20,000 and all.

"Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing"

What is he hiding again? He went through the eligibility process so neither he nor other presidents have been obligated to present their long form birth certificates. So why does he need to hide again? Please, explain.

I'm not a birther but the Hawaii Governor has opened a can of worms.

These things don't look good. The only people that seem to remember Obama's birth are in Kenya.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I'm not a birther but

This is why your argument is failing. You all want to cling to this birther idea but even you all realize it is so stupid that none of you want to actually admit you are pushing it anymore.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I am not a "birther", but

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
I'm not a "birther", but

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
I am not a rabid "birther" per se, but

Originally posted by sremmos
I'm not a birther but

Originally posted by webpirate
I do not consider myself a "birther" either, but

Own it people.

reply to post by Sinnthia


ah wonderful. Thanks for that post. Maybe the birther tag is becoming a burden for some people? I don't know.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I'm not a birther but

This is why your argument is failing. You all want to cling to this birther idea but even you all realize it is so stupid that none of you want to actually admit you are pushing it anymore.

Let me ask how you'd interpret these CNN poll results (July 16-21,2010):

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

Definitely born in U.S. 42%
Probably born in the U.S. 29%
Probably born in another country 16%
Definitely born in another country 11%
No opinion 2%

If you have no doubts, that puts you in the 42% category, meaning you're in the minority. The other 56% of the population that has an opinion has at least some doubt. I'd say the 29%, (of which I'm one) that say "probably born in the US" are the people that don't call themselves birthers but have doubts.

Your failure to recognize this category even exists, or to make a claim in direct contradiction to the poll results, that these 29% believe Obama was probably born outside the US when that's not what the poll shows they believe, demonstrates a less than thorough grasp of the various opinions in the population which have been documented in this poll.

I would say the birthers are a combination of the 16% plus the 11% categories.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Your post actually proves my point.

The Birther thing was D.O.A. It was a dead issue until the Governor of Hawaii went on a crusade to find Obamas birth certificate and he came up empty and now he has raised more questions.

Even if you're not a birther, this raises questions.

If this was a Republican, Democrats would be demanding an investigation.