Could Everything we thought of as paranormal , really just be Quantum Mechanics ?

reply to post by rogertom


I like that final quote.. We are, after all, simply conceptualizing the very same thing. We can quantify aspects of it, but at some point, a realization is made that every single observable and quantified force in play is happening, or at the very least has the potential to happen, continuously. The total quantification of such a thing is.. at least by humans.. a "silly" notion I think ive said it before, but the backlog would become heinous before one had even qualified one thought, to say the least

Though, that doesnt stop many of us from trying Look for some pretty big leaps concerning "quantum" things, they are definitely, without a doubt, in the pipeline right now. As with many things, it is simply a matter of timing.. We seem to be able to pick and choose where to focus effort, but its all happening either way. No matter our conceptualization, mathematics, or anything we ascribe to it, it simply is what it is and is happening all around us, and in us, continuously.

reply to post by rogertom


Cheers Roger . Imagine a number of alternate realities , some of in which , we don't even exist because events before our birth took a different turn . Mind blowingly spooky for me to even comprehend

reply to post by sinohptik

Very well said buddy, and i have noticed this subject becoming more prevalent, over the last few years.

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


yes like that old crack if hitler had won the war thing. I think they even made a film on that idea.

It's very difficult to base your ontological perspective on science. Modern scientific dogma never really knows anything but some mathematics.

What I would like to stress is that in all of science, ESPECIALLY in QM it is very important to understand the theory, the mathematics before you try to base your concept of "what reality is" upon it, simply because scientists mean VERY VERY specific things in VERY specific contexts when they say things like "The cat is half dead and half alive" and so on. That's been my experience with confronting scientists on QM issues, anyway.

So I really don't.. understand this thread in the first place.

But anyway, yea, there is a "many worlds" interpretation of QM as far as I know, although many scientists dislike it.

And, obviously, string theory (and it's offshoots) assumes there are multiple parallel dimensions, I think 11 according to M-Theory.

Just my 2 cents

reply to post by falseveils

From what i gather, the whole QM thing seems to be being taken down now, to the fact that we are just information.

Ok , I'll try to simplfy things for the more educated amongst us . Let's say in this reality , your mother died , but in another reality she is still alive . Now , what if for whatever reason you are able to get a glimpse of the reality in which your mother is still alive , would you not call that an apparition ?

Please remember that even Quantum Theory is just a theory

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


It would still be an apparition, but at least then we could start thinking of it. in a more scientific way. With perhaps an end to making contact.

I personally believe infinite parallel worlds exist where all possibilities are played out. I was just saying that one needs to be careful when saying "science says this"

No theory has it "right", otherwise it's a "law" and not a theory.

reply to post by rogertom


Ok , so now we have discover what it is that seperates one reality from another and how , occasionally , two realities can co-exist .
I knew this was gonna get interesting .

reply to post by falseveils


I completely understand your stance on this and like I said , I know little of the subject and I respect anybody who has the slightest grasp of it .

Regards

Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Ok , I'll try to simplfy things for the more educated amongst us . Let's say in this reality , your mother died , but in another reality she is still alive . Now , what if for whatever reason you are able to get a glimpse of the reality in which your mother is still alive , would you not call that an apparition ?

I would.

But who is going to replicate the experience? Its not science until it is replicated. What if someone who doesn't believe in apparitions tries to replicate your experience and they fail? Then what?

You are talking about quantum mysticism, not science. Mysticism is subject to variables that science can't account for. QM is the equivalent of a mystical tradition inside science, as real mystical traditions are inside religions.

So called scientific facts, have been known to change, a few years down the line. Anyway my theory for the difference between dimentions, would simply be a change in vibrational frequency.

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


It seems perspective yields separation, no?

A perspective on the order of the size of a galaxy might see what we perceive on a human level as "great" separation as something else entirely. Much as we do not see the separation from the human level of conceptualization of things such as protons and electrons, though we know of them.

reply to post by Student X



Sorry , I know nothing of QM . Is this just another way of trying to detatch paranormal from science ?

I once read a book (and for the life of me, i forget what it was called) but it dealt with the phenomena of 'vanishing' objects, in which objects suddenly vanish when dropped and can be found nowhere.

Such cases included an artist who dropped her paintbrush while painting and could neither find the paintbrush nor the blob of paint which would be left if it had hit the floor, and several other cases of disappearing and reappearing objects, sometimes reappearing in very odd places.

I have no idea what causes this, but i like to think it's 'dimensional' , pocket dimensions or fluctuations in reality, caused by extremely rare events, which we have not even glimpsed or discovered.

As, i believe parallel universes may exist, unseen and unknown, coexisting in a slightly different 'frame' of reality.

The mathematical idea of parallel worlds was first glimpsed by the great quantum pioneer, Erwin Schrodinger, but actually published in 1957 by Hugh Everett III, when wrestling with the problem of what actually happens when an observation is made of something of interest - such as an electron or an atom - with the intention of measuring its position or its speed.
In the traditional brand of quantum mechanics, a mathematical object called a wave function, which contains all possible outcomes of a measurement experiment, "collapses" to give a single real outcome.
Everett came up with a more audacious interpretation: the universe is constantly and infinitely splitting, so that no collapse takes place. Every possible outcome of an experimental measurement occurs, each one in a parallel universe.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Another theory

Randall has gathered the attention of scientists and the media for possibly answering a question that has long baffled physicists—why gravity is so much weaker than other forces.

Randall believes the answer to what physicists call the hierarchy problem may lie outside our visible world. Gravity may be weak compared to forces such as electromagnetism, because it is concentrated in another dimension.

Along with Raman Sundrum of Johns Hopkins University, she published two papers in 1999 that have changed how physicists think about the structure of space. Randall proposed that the universe has more than four dimensions (three of space and one of time) and that these extra dimensions could be infinitely large.

Randall has influenced string theorists, who also claim that extra dimensions exist. String theory is a model of physics in which building blocks are one-dimensional objects called strings instead of zero-dimensional particles like electrons.

Until now, string theorists have accounted for the fact that we can detect only three dimensions by claiming that the extra dimensions are curled up into infinitesimal loops and thus imperceptible.

Randall claims that these dimensions could be infinitely large provided that space has a warped geometry. In effect, we could be living in a three-dimensional pocket of higher dimensional space. Randall refers to these pockets in space as branes. Like a bead on a wire that can only move along one dimension, a brane may restrict our motion to three dimensions although other dimensions exist.

www.thecrimson.com...

and one more link / quote - which may be relevant:

Billions of particles flying off from each LHC collision are tracked at four CERN detectors -- and then in collaborating laboratories around the globe -- to establish when and how they come together and what shapes they take.

The CERN theoreticians say this could give clear signs of dimensions beyond length, breadth, depth and time because at such high energy particles could be tracked disappearing -- presumably into them -- and then back into the classical four.

Parallel universes could also be hidden within these dimensions, the thinking goes, but only in a so-called gravitational variety in which light cannot be propagated -- a fact which would make it nearly impossible to explore them.

So... Maybe the answers lie unseen all around us?

Originally posted by rogertom
So called scientific facts, have been known to change, a few years down the line. Anyway my theory for the difference between dimentions, would simply be a change in vibrational frequency.

Great answer . This leads to me next question . Could the difference between alternative reality be something as simple as the rate in which each reality vibrates ?

Please forgive my ignorance on the subject

Regards

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


No I'm not trying to detach paranormal from science. Science detached itself from the paranormal long ago.

The paranormal is a job for mysticism, not science. At least not science as we know it today. We would need to change the rules of science in order to attempt what you are seeking. I am all for that.

Change the Rules!

Abstract—Although consciousness-correlated physical phenomena are widely and credibly documented, their appearance and behavior display substantial departures from conventional scientific criteria. Under even the most rigorous protocols, they are only irregularly replicable, and they appear to be insensitive to most basic physical coordinates, including distance and time. Rather, their strongest correlations are with various subjective parameters, such as intention, emotional resonance, uncertainty, attitude, and meaning, and information processing at an unconscious level appears to be involved.

If science, by its most basic definition, is to pursue understanding and utilization of these extraordinary processes, it will need to expand its current paradigm to acknowledge and codify a proactive role for the mind in the establishment of physical events, and to accommodate the spectrum of empirically indicated subjective correlates. The challenges of quantitative measurement and theoretical conceptualization within such a ‘‘Science of the Subjective’’ are formidable, but its potential intellectual and cultural benefits could be immense, not least of all in improving the reach, the utility, the attitude, and the image of science itself.

reply to post by Student X

Sometimes science brings mysticism into the realms of science, then it becomes science fact. and that in its self may change years later.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

So... Maybe the answers lie unseen all around us?

That is true, no matter the applied conceptualization. though, i would say "seen" and "unseen." My issue with projects such as LHC is that independent replication becomes a bit of an issue due to scale, finances, and politics. Though, that is a thread all unto itself

I prefer "gremlins" as the conceptualization to things dissapearing