The Wellstone Plane Crash

Perhaps this has been covered in depth before. I still have an interest in this.

- No black box only conjecture on the part of NTSB investigators.
- Wellstone biggest threat to the current admin - right before Iraq invasion
- Wellstone biggest threat to Patriot Act and other bills
- Wellstone loss would be mean gain of senate seat in an even senate
- King Air C90A is an extremely safe plane with anti-icing capabilities slower
stall speeds.
- Read about issues with pilots but not any more than normal regional airline
- Semi-Overcast clouds with pretty good visibility - enough for other pilots to land and the field mgr to take off in his own plane.

Thoughts??

Yea this was sort of swept away wasn�t it, I can�t remember for sure didn�t they say it was due to pilot error? And of course the rumor that it was a deliberate hit on the man, for going against Bush and pushing for a 911 investigation?

i will go back and start digging hope others do too, would hope so, know this is cover up big time thanks

Didn't this happen right after 911 and no mention of terrorist attack at all, it seemed like the press reported on it as little as possible. I thought at the time that I heard this that it seemed kind of suspicious and convenient but then there are a lot of things that keep happening during this administration that seem that way.

NTSB concluded that the pilots came in too slow and at the wrong angle. The report also noted that both pilots "had previously demonstrated serious performance deficiencies during flight operations consistent with below-average flight proficiency." In other words these guys had a tendency to blow-off required checklists, etc.

Here's a link to the NTSB report: Link

Originally posted by Sauron
Yea this was sort of swept away wasn�t it, I can�t remember for sure didn�t they say it was due to pilot error? And of course the rumor that it was a deliberate hit on the man, for going against Bush and pushing for a 911 investigation?

Yes, I believe the final NTSB report blamed on pilot error. Said pilot was up working the night before - even though he went to bed in the evening. Heck lots of airline pilots fly the night before - get some sleep and then fly in the morning. Other pilot had about 400-500 hours in type - not sure.

I will do some digging too.

Not sure what I believe, just trusting my instincts on this one.

Originally posted by goose
Didn't this happen right after 911 and no mention of terrorist attack at all, it seemed like the press reported on it as little as possible. I thought at the time that I heard this that it seemed kind of suspicious and convenient but then there are a lot of things that keep happening during this administration that seem that way.

It was a week before the elections - they had to pull a new Democrat in his spot. Man I am terrible can't even remember his name but he lost by a pretty good margin to the former mayor of St. Paul who was running and really supported by GOP.

Originally posted by Bleys
NTSB concluded that the pilots came in too slow and at the wrong angle. The report also noted that both pilots "had previously demonstrated serious performance deficiencies during flight operations consistent with below-average flight proficiency." In other words these guys had a tendency to blow-off required checklists, etc.

Here's a link to the NTSB report: Link

Thanks for the link - I will check it out. Question is - if FAA and airline knew about deficiencies why pair the two together and give them a high profile vip like a us senator - their operations must be terrible.

Originally posted by NavyDog
Perhaps this has been covered in depth before. I still have an interest in this. Thoughts??

Agggggggg. I can accross a website last night and cant seem to find it again. It was at work and I wipe out my history after I surf. Anyway the site postulated that the plane may have been hit with a targeted emp. Either a beam or an onboard device. I was a little skeptical about a small EMP bomb being planted but came accross this site that sells plans for them.
www.plansandkits.com...

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by NavyDog
Perhaps this has been covered in depth before. I still have an interest in this. Thoughts??

Agggggggg. I can accross a website last night and cant seem to find it again. It was at work and I wipe out my history after I surf. Anyway the site postulated that the plane may have been hit with a targeted emp. Either a beam or an onboard device. I was a little skeptical about a small EMP bomb being planted but came accross this site that sells plans for them.
www.plansandkits.com...

King Airs are not emp hardened so if it happened - bye bye. I think one of the engines was still turning so it might not be possible. If they were flying ILS or a non-precision approach, maybe the VORTAC or something else was disrupted - everything is based off this navigation.

That link you gave is pretty interesting!

Originally posted by NavyDog
Thanks for the link - I will check it out. Question is - if FAA and airline knew about deficiencies why pair the two together and give them a high profile vip like a us senator - their operations must be terrible.

From the report it sounds like the charter service had numerous violations. I noticed Wellstone's family settled with the charter company privately for 25 million dollars.

[edit on 10-7-2004 by Bleys]

I think Wellstone's plane crash, was just that. A crash. There isn't any cover up. Yes, Wellstone was a very vocal Senator, who told everyone his opion, whether or not you wanted it.

Was it piolot error. Yes. Anytime a plane crashes, with few exceptions, it is always piolot error. Whether directly or indirectly.

As long as public safety decisions are made in a hierarchy rather than with vertical and lateral input and output, we will continue with dangers otherwise effectively quashed.

Of course after the Space Shuttle disasters, NASA proposed just such a vertical and lateral communication policy, but the temptations of vertical cover-ups and a homogeneous eg. Soviet Pravda style media will insure continuing top down dangers. It is well known in political science that as a rule of thumb centralized systems destabilize, while decentralization stabilizes a social structure. The reason why is authoritative blinding and binding as an historical phenomenon. We will have no justice in this world until the local non-federalized and non-militarized police investigate things, and are not ever blocked by people acting under the color of high authority. We are no "civilians," we are citizens, actually above our leadership that must never forget than. It is either government of the people or tyranny, with little wiggle room, for a free and open society.

Yes the probabilities indicate something rotten in Denmark, and confiscation of evidence.

Congresswoman Patsy Mink who died of "pneumonia," in view of the anthrax bio scare may have also been bumped off too. After all she was the original sponsor of the Freedom of Information Act.

Almost every "plane crash," in which a leader has died in the United States has had a liberal angle, almost all democrats or liberal republicans. From Hale Boggs to Senator Heinz and Senator Tower, the body count has illustrated this. The Tower Report was directed against the Iran Contra episode for example. We have to face the fact that the most Republican Democrat in history, Bill Clinton has a high body count around him as well. There is something repulsive around the Republican Party and so called conservatism that is destroying our country and our liberties. Until We the People take command over this bent toward tyranny, we will get it until we "get it."

If our government applied objective morality even for 10 days, it could change the world forever for the better. Even the super rich would ultimately prosper as usual and more as all people should.

[edit on 11-7-2004 by SkipShipman]

SkipShipman - man that is deep and good. Thanks for the input.

SkipShipman- Before I buy into waht you wrote, do you have any numbers about how many Congressman have had untimely deaths and what their affiliations were? No offense, but I don't exactly trust anyone's personal recollections.

I do have fear for the safety of Kerry and Edwards. Who knows what they will do to get what they want.

Let me add something to the pot to put in perspective. The Navy flies King Airs just like the one Wellstone flew in. Not only do they train, but they do the most dangerous stuff in them for traning new studs (students). Stuff like VMCA demos which are one-engines loss of directional control at altitude, etc. Granted the instructors are well trained but these squadrons have been flying accident free for some time - the most recent in 99 I believe. But we are talking with students and thousands of hours.

Sometimes its hard to swallow a coincendence - and it probably is just that.

Originally posted by Esoterica
SkipShipman- Before I buy into waht you wrote, do you have any numbers about how many Congressman have had untimely deaths and what their affiliations were? No offense, but I don't exactly trust anyone's personal recollections.

Excuse me for being so late in reply.

I think a Google search for "body count in air disasters," might work, eg.

www.google.com...

[edit on 23-7-2004 by SkipShipman]