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Question About Black Holes

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posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Okay. I know that black holes are pretty much infinitely dense and compact masses… But. Just realized I have been holding a completely different understanding in my head simultaneously, and have been for a long time.

My alternate 'understanding' is that black holes actually are 'portals' to another universe; planets, stars and galaxies essentially go through the black hole to be "reborn" on the other side. Perhaps intact, perhaps as raw material. Not sure. In any event, the concept involves a kind of perpetual orbit through 2 or more distinct universes, around and back again infinitely.

So my question is:

Where did I get this idea? …Is it a disgarded scientific hypothesis? An idea from a sci-fi book or movie? My own imagination? What? …Anybody know???




posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
Okay. I know that black holes are pretty much infinitely dense and compact masses… But. Just realized I have been holding a completely different understanding in my head simultaneously, and have been for a long time.

My alternate 'understanding' is that black holes actually are 'portals' to another universe; planets, stars and galaxies essentially go through the black hole to be "reborn" on the other side. Perhaps intact, perhaps as raw material. Not sure. In any event, the concept involves a kind of perpetual orbit through 2 or more distinct universes, around and back again infinitely.

So my question is:

Where did I get this idea? …Is it a disgarded scientific hypothesis? An idea from a sci-fi book or movie? My own imagination? What? …Anybody know???


I would say its both a scientific hypothesis and a idea from a sci-fi book. Wormholes comes to mind.

But since we are going off on wild tangents you want to hear a really wild one? What if our solar system formed within our black hole. It would make sense as how the stars are drifting away from us. But it could just be the expanding universe theory idk.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


Well its not YOUR own imagination, because I have wondered the same thing. I am beginning to think that it is more accurately a portal to another galaxy.

I have theorized that just as your eye has a black center that is essentially the light absorber for your brain, the galaxy has a black center that is the light absorber for the cosmic brain.
More to think about is when you are taking in more light, as in a psychedelic experience, your pupils get bigger. I would imagine that it works the same way with the black whole at the center of the galaxy as it takes in more light (stars), it gets more massive. I am beginning to see the universe as a fractal and the galaxy as an advanced being in its own right.

I have neighbors and can look them in the eye and communicate with them, much like a galaxy has neighbors and can communicate with them through their black holes. We also have a potential for telepathy that I am beginning to unlock, and looking someone in the eye is the first step to looking in to their soul.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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I've certainly heard this idea before, but I would guess it sits firmly in the realm of hypothesis. In terms of your physical body, based on modern theory, it would certainly be torn to pieces before you got anywhere near the singularity, due to the difference of the gravity in the distance between your feet and head. Personally, I don't feel it ends when your physical body 'dies' so I guess from my viewpoint you would enter a differnt 'world'.

A belief of Bahai faith is that 'physics' and 'spirituality' must unite because thay are both parts of the universe - seems logical to me. Maybe they'd be the people to ask.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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Ive heard of this too, its been mentioned in a few documentarys but more as a "what if" off the cuff comment rather than anything scientific



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


You could have gotten this idea which, while speculative, is one of the logical constructs of black hole science, from any one of a number of places. You are thinking of a "wormhole" which, could act as a sort of portal. You don't have the patience nor do I have the time, nor does this travel computer have the font necessary to fully explore the mathematics behind a wormhole or, as it's more properly called, an Einstein-Rosen Bridge. It is tied in with the mathematics of the Casimir effect, General (as opposed to special, relativity, and relativistic time dilation. Google those terms and use wikipedia for sources, not substance.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by packinupngoin
 


I believe you may have got the idea from the 1979 movie, The Black Hole. I was believed by the mad scientist in the movie that if he took the ship through it he would appear on the other side in another Galaxy. This is a few lines from the wiki' about the plot.(The Palomino crew finds a crew of humanoid, faceless robots on board the Cygnus, along with the ship's Commander, Doctor Hans Reinhardt, a prominent scientist, and his robot crew, including the hulking Maximilian. When asked about Kate's father, Reinhardt explains that the ship had encountered a field of meteoroids and was disabled. He ordered the crew to return to Earth, yet McRae's father chose to remain aboard with Reinhardt, but he has since died. Reinhardt reveals that he is working on a project to fly the Cygnus into the black hole and explore beyond. Most of the crew react with incredulity and skepticism upon this announcement; only Durant believes it is possible and asks if he can accompany Reinhardt on the planned trip.)
Hope this helps. Can't think where else you got it except your imagination, which is where we all get our best ideas.
edit on 17-1-2011 by gater because: Movie was 1989, not 80's

edit on 17-1-2011 by gater because: Movie was 1979, not 80's



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 
That has got to be the most beautiful analogy I have ever heard. Plus it is probably as close to the truth as you can get. The first time I ever spoke with Dr Allen Hynek, he asked how aliens would get to earth, I said not real sure, but that travel through wormholes, like black holes. He said if I had said anything else he would have hung up on me. Everyone recieves knowledge that we have no idea where it came from, and it is happening more now than ever. Write them down and research. Great Thead.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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From what I understand, black holes are just extremely dense balls of mass that imprison everything including light.

I don't know if your ideas have ever been proven.

Are you thinking of wormholes?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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Thanks for your replies everyone. Very helpful.


Watched the end of the "Black Hole" documentary that brought this all up and moved me to get off the couch and start this thread.

...Turns out the idea that black holes are (or lead to) wormholes is a common speculation - and includes the a and b options - the wormholes lead to: a) alternate universes, and/or b) other places/galaxies within our own universe. AND this speculative hypothesis is supported by the math. Cool, huh?

...I also remembered that I got the idea from my study of the I Ching. Go figure.


...Haven't thought about these things in a long time. Will research a bit and see what's current. Thanks again everyone.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


Thanks much. Here's a quick pick about Einstein-Rosen Bridges (ERBs), or wormholes, and black holes:



If a particle (or object) were to travel down into the "throat" or center of a black hole in space, it would enter a different area of both space and time. The process would kill any living being; Einstein postulated that gravity would increase to infinity at the center of the black hole, tearing apart even the atoms of whatever passed through.

White Holes
A white hole, the exit point to the ERB, is a black hole which runs backward in time. Black holes swallow whatever comes into contact with them, while white holes regurgitate them.


White holes should not be able to exist, because they would spontaneously create order out of disorder, effectively violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Roy Kerr and the Spinning Black Hole
In 1963, mathematician Roy Kerr remedied a major difficulty of Einstein's theory by proving that, due to the principle of conservation of angular momentum, a star in the process of collapse would increase its rotation. It would have at its center a ring of neutrons manifesting extraordinary centrifugal force outward, countering the force of gravity on the inside.

A particle, object, or traveller would then not be crushed by the forces, but would travel through the point of singularity and exit the other side of the black hole, or white hole, perhaps within the same universe at a different location or time, or perhaps in a parallel universe.

However, any travel through this Kerr ring would be necessarily one-way. The gravity created by the collapse, though no longer sufficient to kill the individual, would prevent a return trip.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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My alternate 'understanding' is that black holes actually are 'portals' to another universe; planets, stars and galaxies essentially go through the black hole to be "reborn" on the other side. Perhaps intact, perhaps as raw material. Not sure. In any event, the concept involves a kind of perpetual orbit through 2 or more distinct universes, around and back again infinitely.


not an expert but basically depends on type of black hole:
basically:
regular black hole: what goes in doesn't come out or comes out into another universe or distant part of this one:
as a stream of subatomic particles or as a "white hole"

the using a black hole to travel to another part of the universe as a warp gate is mostly science fiction and usually revolves around "using"/taking advantage of the singularity at it's heart

however if the black hole is torus shaped [like a donut] you could us it as warp gate in theory [never been tried out]. there is science to back up this being a possibility.

like I said no expert but Stephen Hawking has written about this

oh! my source?

a book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle titled "Black Holes" which alternated sci-fi short stories with real science based articles some of them by Hawking. just so you know.

just remembered something from that book
the Russian term for black hole is "Frozen Star", because BH in russian is an obscenity.[= AH in english]

hope I've been of some assistance.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


Thanks much DLE.


Did you see my post above about White Holes?

...seems it's mathematically possible for there to be white holes on the "flip side" of black holes - and it's hypothetically possible to go in the black hole and come out the white hole intact! without being crushed, pulverized or otherwise dead (but not reverse).

...we probably read some of the same books - and the seeds were planted for me - but I didn't 'get it' til I studied the I Ching. Interesting how the mind works, isn't it? Things come in, whirl and twirl around for years, then suddenly make sense. Usually about 3:00am.


So I'm thinking our planet and solar system orbits through parallel universes on a superhighway - through a black hole, out a white hole, through a wormhole, hang for a while - then on to the next. Just seems right to me.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


Thanks much DLE.


Did you see my post above about White Holes?

...seems it's mathematically possible for there to be white holes on the "flip side" of black holes - and it's hypothetically possible to go in the black hole and come out the white hole intact! without being crushed, pulverized or otherwise dead (but not reverse).

...we probably read some of the same books - and the seeds were planted for me - but I didn't 'get it' til I studied the I Ching. Interesting how the mind works, isn't it? Things come in, whirl and twirl around for years, then suddenly make sense. Usually about 3:00am.


So I'm thinking our planet and solar system orbits through parallel universes on a superhighway - through a black hole, out a white hole, through a wormhole, hang for a while - then on to the next. Just seems right to me.




I've read so much
that science and sci-fi have long blurred [bibliophilia].
nothing is impossible
only improbable

Kerr Rings is what I was talking about
ring is dumbed down for torus I suppose

not really into the I-Ching, though I've got it in hardcover somewhere in the mess
the spine is like,perfect for using as an oracle without having ever read it through it gives out some pretty impressive results. used to do a five card tarot spread and had 4/5 accuracy in predicting the sex of the baby even before expecting parents had gone to the doctor to find out.

would' you be referring/thinking by any chance to:

Hexagram 2 is named 坤 (kūn), "Field". Other variations include "the receptive", "acquiescence", and "the flow". Its inner trigram is ☷ (坤 kūn) field = (地) earth, and its outer trigram is identical.

could also be The Abyss

"Needing Knowledge & Skill; Do not force matters and go with the flow "

wise words for traveling through black holes from the ancient sages
maybe in one of these:






edit on 18-1-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: forgot to answer 1st question. fixed



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


Did you see my post above about White Holes?

...seems it's mathematically possible for there to be white holes on the "flip side" of black holes - and it's hypothetically possible to go in the black hole and come out the white hole intact! without being crushed, pulverized or otherwise dead (but not reverse).

...we probably read some of the same books - and the seeds were planted for me - but I didn't 'get it' til I studied the I Ching. ...

So I'm thinking our planet and solar system orbits through parallel universes on a superhighway - through a black hole, out a white hole, through a wormhole, hang for a while - then on to the next. Just seems right to me.



I've read so much
that science and sci-fi have long blurred [bibliophilia].
nothing is impossible
only improbable


Uh huh. And fiction is maybe the best medium for truth-telling, not just investigating.



Kerr Rings is what I was talking about
ring is dumbed down for torus I suppose


Found this, no way can I do the math.




not really into the I-Ching, ... predicting ...

would' you be referring/thinking by any chance to:

Hexagram 2 is named 坤 (kūn), "Field". Other variations include "the receptive", "acquiescence", and "the flow". Its inner trigram is ☷ (坤 kūn) field = (地) earth, and its outer trigram is identical.

could also be The Abyss

"Needing Knowledge & Skill; Do not force matters and go with the flow "

wise words for traveling through black holes from the ancient sages


To me, the Ching is not so much a 'fortune-telling' tool as a repository of ancient knowledge. Most important, the order of the hexagrams was changed a few thousand years ago. ...It's history includes survival through a book-burning, and the hexagrams being "reorganized" by an imprisoned sage / King (name?).

Point being, the guy changed the order of the hexagrams. ...Some time ago I noticed that the hexagrams are actually binary numbers (0-63), and later found out that Descartes called it first.


...Very clearly, the original order was binary-sequential: beginning with 0, K'un (nothingness, infinitely receptive), and ending with Ch'ien (infinity, infinite possibility). You'll note that after the concept of zero and infinity arise, 0-1 (2 lines), all the groupings represent doubling: 0-7 (3 lines); 0-15 (4 lines); 0-31 (5 lines); 0-63 (6 lines); 0-127 (7 lines); 0-255 (8 lines) - and every grouping begins with K'un and ends with Ch'ien.

The notion of black holes, white holes and wormholes arises quite obviously. ...An important Ching representation is around a circle - with the Yin / Yang symbol representing the black holes and white holes, and the "point of contact" indicating passage, or the potential for passage. ...My interpretation accommodates the literal as well as figurative.

SORRY - have been rushing, must leave now. Be back later.

Diagrams here



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:30 AM
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The thing with blackholes is that when they die out they leave no matter behind, which is supposedly not possible that we know of. You know, every action has an equal reaction type of thing. But a blackhole draws in so much matter that you are left wondering where did all the matter go.
It's the blackhole paradox.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 





To me, the Ching is not so much a 'fortune-telling' tool as a repository of ancient knowledge.


yes, of course you're right. all true oracles are microcosmic representations/reflections of the macrocosmos ["as above so below"], consulting an oracle is consciously becoming in tune through synchronicity with the macrocosm or if you prefer the Tao. the more complex, more symbols/patterns,the better the representation/reflection. I'm not surprised at all that you are Seeing these things in such a self-generated complexity/information dense system such as the I-Ching. I'm looking forward to your posting any further progress in these matters.



the order of the hexagrams was changed a few thousand years ago. ...It's history includes survival through a book-burning, and the hexagrams being "reorganized" by an imprisoned sage / King


ah yes, those damn book burners:
always the exact same excuses through out history and geography.
China has gone through quite a lot of those. didn't know about the reorganization/reordering though, the same thing happened with the Tarot, by the way. no doubt great changes occurred shortly after. did this sage eventually get out of jail?



beginning with 0, K'un (nothingness, infinitely receptive), and ending with Ch'ien (infinity, infinite possibility)

yes,like a continuum/spectrum



Found this, no way can I do the math.


perhaps not, but going by your diagrams you are quite a geometrist.

again,looking forward to your posting any further progress in these matters.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


While that is true a white hole has never been observed. They are not even sure if they exist. It brings with it a bigger problem, with blackholes being extremely numerous in the universe then where are all the white holes?
At least with a blackhole there is tangible evidence that they exist, with white holes there is nothing more than an equation that says they could exist.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by pazcat
 


Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by soficrow
 


While that is true a white hole has never been observed. They are not even sure if they exist. It brings with it a bigger problem, with blackholes being extremely numerous in the universe then where are all the white holes?
At least with a blackhole there is tangible evidence that they exist, with white holes there is nothing more than an equation that says they could exist.


As I recall, Einstein postulated the mathematical possibility of black holes long before they ever were observed.

It may be that we need to go through a black hole to confirm the existence of "white holes" - or it may be that we simply need to look a bit more closely at star birth phenomenon, for example, perhaps with different expectations.



"Elliptical galaxies were thought to have made all of their stars billions of years ago," says astronomer Mark Crockett of the University of Oxford, leader of the Hubble observations. "They had consumed all their gas to make new stars. Now we are finding evidence of star birth in many elliptical galaxies, fueled mostly by cannibalizing smaller galaxies." ...

Hubble Captures New Star Birth in an Ancient Galaxy



PS. Will get back to you DLE.

edit on 19/1/11 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



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