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"My opinion radicalisation is being done very personally, where people are picked out and are bein manpulated outside the mosque, maybe through the interenet or something."
This is my understanding of the mechanism. There may be spotters in the Mosques but the major action is done outside over informal house meetings that use any argument to suck the people with a vulnerable personality in embrace fundamentalism. This is not like fundamentalist christian sects that have a clear name like Baptists or Plymouth Bretheren and a church. This is so much more informal and therefore difficult to break.
Broad brush approaches will not work and attacking the peaceful moslems may drive some over the edge.
The guys may be successful,and academically able etc. but whatever the crack is in their psyches that is how the recruiters get in and turn them. There was a brilliant article in Prospect magazine that explained what was happening in Leeds.
edit on 20-1-2011 by tiger5 because: typo
What I don't understand is why any nation would allow a "no go zone"
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by JR MacBeth
Islam is the perfect religion to serve as a tool for the PTB, and especially to the people who would like to see our planet ruled by those who claim divine rights, as in the days of the dark ages.
There is nothing to change about Islam for it to serve in this function. The only thing that is needed is to keep the aggression in check until they feel they have the numbers to take over.
Let's face reality, the oil industry has the money to pay off enough politicians to put this kind of plan into action, and that is exactly what they seem to be doing.
Originally posted by nastyj
Were most religions started by TPTB, or merely subverted afterward? I don't think it matters that much for practical purposes, because you still have the same situation we have today. And I think that the "subversion" theory is less threatening, although the hardcore would still be a long way from quitting their faith of course.
Hey mate i just want to say, your post is awesome starred, raises many interesting points and valid arguments, exactly the way a debate or discussion should be going.
Hey im not sure if i agree with you there, the difference between TPTB starting a religion to further their agenda or to subvert one would have dramatic differences. The difference between the ideologies of TPTB and mainstream religion is that one is polytheistic while another is monotheistic in its most general definition.
The two sides are opposite, without a middle ground at all.
The question is why would TPTB create mutliple monotheistic religions to only fight them? I mean if they wanted control they could do that, they do not need to create an enemy to do it. Back during the early revelations like the Old testament, there was no other monotheistic big religion, so it wasnt at all about turning one monotheistic religion on another. It was simply a war between the pagan/polytheists, and the first Jews.
Why would TPTB of the times, Egyptian empire, Roman Empire etc invent a monotheistic religion to topple their own kingdom only to rebuild it and topple it again, why start 1001 wars if you are controlling both sides, i dont understand how any level of control would be build if it were the case that TPTB created a religion.
While there are some reasonable religionists, who can concede that their religions have likely been subverted, there is a variety of religionist that not only will not accept the possibility, but even if they hear you out, and accept a thing "for argument's sake", they then go into another mode, proclaiming that God will surely set things right, so forget TPTB, they will all pay in the end, when God (finally) decides to take his revenge! Hard to ever make progress with folks like that.
Yeah lol, i do tend to fit this category sometimes, I would say that God would settle the scores through the prophecies that are indeed being fulfilled as we speak.
However, it is ignorant to say that religion is not being infiltrated or being subverted to push agendas. These people will try to paint religion in such manner as to hide or even lie about it to sell it and convert people, yet it goes against their own religion in the first place to do so.
However such is not the case with TPTB, who will lie and plan ahead to further their goals of domination and control. This is the biggest difference in between Religionists and TPTB, religionist cannot band together and scheme such operations to further their religious control as they will most likely have to sell out their own ideals and religious beliefs in the process.
The problem with TPTB is that they have been long planning these things, if you stuy about the old bavarian illuminati, Robert Anton Wilson, and numerous other think tanks and great philosophers, these highly intellectual people plan things 1001 steps ahead of the rest, spanning many generations. It is impossible to counter such a force, they will use the worst, the most ingenious and efficient way to control people, the only way to fight back is to use their own methods of control against them, but that would have you selling your ideals and beliefs by doing acts against your better nature. That is why the only way to combat them is to have faith in a divine intermediary that religionists believe in.
As for Western populations moving away from their traditional religions, yes, that has been interesting, as many other things rush in to fill that void. And many of those other things, as you suggest, do seem to be offered by the NWO crowd, so we should all be careful of what we have come to believe, and why. Could be we're playing into our assigned roles.
Yes it is true, western populations are moving away from traditional religions, some on the right path, some totally forgetting their religious roots (which is the most common) and some totally on the wrong path.
I see that most so called christians, nearly all of them the i ahve known in my life, my friends etc. None of them hardly identify themselves with christianity, it has long since been lost practiced. Most have slipped into the belief of Agnostic, thought they dont know why, only becasue they know too little of their own faith, because it hasnt been practiced or been neglected, from this crowed also people have become vehemently atheist too, all this spanning multi generations.
The thing is, over the course of these generations and the advances in science, people somehow came to the conclusion that religion has totally been debunked when in fact it hasnt at all. The common folk tend to fall to the assumption that with all this scientific knowledge that religion is old and backwards. Yet they forget taht the religionists themselves were the ones to ahve advanced such and such technology and thinking in the first place.
Imo this degeneration of thought has lead to, a rise in athiesm, i dont believe that atheist is a sect that grew and built with teachings and new thinking, but instead people fell into it.
The education system in western society, especially for the younger ages, has absolutly no concern for such subjects involving thinking, ideas, philosophy etc. And such is the system that has been established by the PTB.
In some ways we have definitely played into the hands of the PTB.
I'm not sure I see a plan for the destruction of Islamic civilization, although from our present vantage point, I can see why many may think it could be in "the plan".
Well at least we can agree there most definitely is a plan
Imo, islam is the only religion that like people have said in a negative way it is 1200AD lol. Yet since revelation to now, the Quran has remained unchanged and unaltered as it has been memorised and passed down through generations upon generations. This and the fact that Islam is a very strict religion that i think we can both agree on is a lot more practiced in as it is more of a way of life then simply a belief system. It has been practiced almost like a culture, which is Islam does tend to get blamed by the practices of such cultures, pakistan iran etc etc.
It is because of this, and the fact that islamic life has been engrained so ehavily upon the lives of the muslims that practice it, and the fact they remain isolated from the changed the PTB implement through the governing system/education system etc etc. is the fact that it is the least able to be controlled, which is why massive measures are being taken to subvert it. We cant let what happened in civilisations in the apst happen over and over again falling for the same mistakes.
As you point out in your post, Islam has many qualities that seemingly make it a rather "slavish" religion. Why would our masters want such a thing as that to disappear? Wouldn't that be the sort of thing they might like to harness? Perhaps it could be something that will be built upon?
Yes it appears to be slavish, but for all tribes there ever was in history like the natives etc, they all had their system and it appears to be slavish because people always stayed within their belief system or culture.
But the fact that it is slavish i will tell you is all propaganda. The only slaves we are is to God, and only him.
Look at TPTB and theire contorl systems, capitalist, hierarchical based systems, where there is an elite t run the masses, this elite are people, people rulin over people. All for profit, power to fill their superiority complex.
Look at the teaching of all religions, religion gives power to the people, it teaches equality between men, when people say islam and muslims think they are superior to everyone, they ned to look at their government, because in todays society in who can build the most,mke the most money, it is based 999999% more on superiority then anythin else. Hell, at least our masters are God, and divinte forces. Yet the masses decide to give up their beliefs to the Elite humans who believe in their luciferic practices that they can deify themselves, and proclaim sovereignty over man.
The thing that makes them able to control people easily is to give them 'pleasures', money, materialistic things that everyone values, an 'easy' life so to speak, where as the religious person has to strive to stay godly, stay away from pleasures an all in all have a more 'boring' time. When one is presented with such rewards in front of them, then control can easily be made. Look at society and the kids nowadays, they have been desensitized by stripping them of their morals etc. making all the bad things appear to be good. Music, clubbing, sex, materialistic things, wealth, etc.
If the latter ideas are valid, then logically that leads to other conclusions. That is, perhaps "they" (Muslims) are not the true intended targets at all. Could it be that European civilization and religion and culture and even "race"...could it be that they are the "real" target after all?
I dont know about you but imo it seems that most global links have been made, most of the superpowers in the world are already allies with eachother. Only a minority remain, and that lies within muslim countries imo.
If i were to give you a religious interpretation, then these ties that fit together and connection made exactly fit the prophecy of Gog Magog/ Y'ajuj wa M'ajuj, Basicall TPTB alliance before unifying them with the NWO and dajjal/antichrist.
Everything that is happening in the world, science, etc are all going hand in hand with religious prophecies. IMO Religion is moving further and further from being debunked in this modern age. That is why the increase in TPTB operations is escalating. Everon in ATS can feel this culmination of events, be they religious or not, im sur eyou would agree here.
If so, then much of the last century might suddenly make more sense. Where did we actually see so much war? Europe. That alone accounts for a rather large global demographic "shift". By "intention"? Why so? Where did we see a huge cultural shift? The West. Again, by intention? Where is this heading?
"If" TPTB are mostly responsible for these larger historical changes that we have seen, then we should wonder what they are up to. Did they really intentionally rile the Arab world (through the Israeli installation, together with their intelligence agencies), only to plan on their ultimate destruction? Couldn't they have gone about that differently? Why would they not attempt a different manufactured "enemy"? Why was Europe, or Europeans (wherever they are), or the "West" set as the "enemy" in this game? Don't these kinds of questions make sense?
Excellent questions mate, (i cant seem to give a thumbs up lol d'oh) i dont think we will get a solid answer to that until its too late....
SO now for my interpretation. What we are seeing, the rise, the spread, and the intentional radicalization of Islam, primarily through their higher birthrates, but certainly aided by criminal Western immigration policies, this we have on one hand.
On the other is a simultaneous decline of Europeans (with birthrates almost as laughable as Jewish ones), as well as a sharp cultural shift, away from traditional core values, with the values assigned the least emphasis not surprisingly being related to self-preservation itself.
This last one should be carefully evaluated, because it suggests a longer-term strategy that has been perpetrated upon the people that does not bode well for their future.
IMO, Muslims can mostly relax in the coming decades. Yes, they will continue to wear the "black hat", they will be victims of vilification, many will die, but the good news (for them) is that far more will be born.
Another thumbs up, definite arguments raised, and would love to hear them answered, i think from reading m y above replies, you will start to get my theory on what is happening.
As for muslims relaxing, easier said than done when tons of brother and sisters are bing killed for evil causes. We do not believe that having a bigger family will fix this problem lol, most muslims including me believe that we are too close to the end. In fact my opinion, God willing i live a long life, i will end up witnessing the major signs unfold (then again maybe i would rather die before these great tribulations occur, as it has been prophecised that this will be the harshest time for not just the muslim but the monotheistic godloving indivuals (.<
Originally posted by tiger5
reply to post by poet1b
The UK has no “No GO” zones where moslems rule. I think someone mentioned that France does but then is that simply an area of softly-softly policing?
At the moment the standard infiltration and counterinsurgency methods may not be as effective as have been against the IRA simply because the necessary backgrounds cannot be faked. A primarily white security force cannot successfully infiltrate radical Islam because of skin colour and also because they cannot fake the necessary background in say Somalia or Pakistan. I don’t know if posing as white converts would be a method of infiltration but such conversion in England are still novel except for Cat Stevens.
As a side not to blame multiculturalism is wrong because you cannot eradicate a culture and a culture under pressure from a hostile host culture turns inwards creating hero types pump up on anti genocidal ideology as well as mental health problems.
When people talk about moslem ghettos these ghettos may be only51% moslem in a few blocks.
The Government will jail criminals and keep the high profile fundamentalist Imans in check the moslem prison population is rising which is cause for concern as the prisons can also be recruiting grounds for fundamentalist moslems.
The majority of moslems keep on the right side of the law because they are grateful to UK and want to work as do most immigrants.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by JR MacBeth
It is well known that the Black Panthers and the Muslim movement in the U.S. has worked diligently to spread racism against Europeans.
Considering how many Africans were taken as slaves to Arabia by the Muslims, and that they would cut off the junk of all male slaves, thus no African slave population in Arabia, I can't understand why anyone of African descent would embrace Islam.
It is my opinion that the crime ridden hell hole ghettos were intentionally created by the people pulling the strings to undermine our rights starting back in the sixties. It was an extremely effective tool for spreading paranoia....
Don't forget that these crime ridden ghettos created justification for a whole lot of jobs in law enforcement and criminal justice. This is how we have morphed into a police state.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by tiger5
Haven't been there myself, but I have read numerous accounts, and the problem seems to be the same everywhere. Throughout Europe, India, Africa, Indonesia, Asia, the problem seems to be the same. Islam is consistently the aggressor, while trying to cling to the claim of being the victim.
“We are charged by almighty Allah to protect our fellow brothers and sisters and we know of many, so many, here in America and across the globe who are in dire need of protection … A Muslim is a brother to a Muslim. Neither he harms him nor does he hand him to another for harm. … Here in the United States, Muslims are often faced with discrimination, harassment and outright hatred. Mosques are burned. Islamic centers are vandalized, desecrated. Mosques and Islamic centers and schools face constant discriminatory zoning decisions. Muslim families are harassed and hindered from travel from at airports as they are profiled as quote unquote terrorists or security risks. … Our freedoms, my dear brothers and sisters, are under attack. Our freedom to associate with whomsoever we choose, to speak out politically and religiously, to travel, to practice our faith as Allah has instructed us as God-fearing men and women must be protected. And these rights must be defended with all the determination, all the resources, all the unyielding vigilance of the believing mujahid. … This is the mark of the Muslim. The earliest defenders of Islam would defend their more numerous and better equipped oppressors, because the early Muslims loved death, dying for the sake of almighty Allah, more than the oppressors of Muslims loved life. This must be the case where we– when we are fighting life’s other battles. … [W]hat are our oppressors going to do with people like us? We’re prepared to give our lives for the cause of Islam.”
Suhail Khan, a Bush administration veteran, has presented himself as a moderate, pro-American voice in the Muslim Community. But new videos cast serious doubt on that image he’s carefully groomed for himself in Washington.
Mr. Khan has — unwittingly or not — helped the bad guys infiltrate the government, from one end of Pennsylvania Avenue to the other.